Nosler Partition vs Barnes TTSX

[MRBlack]

Fellow members,

I have been hunting and reloading for nearly all of my rather youthful life. In the last 4-5 years, I have begun to take reloading very seriously. My grandfather has always reloaded and hunted and taught me quite a lot. In fact, we shared my first safari last summer. However, I digress. I thoroughly enjoy learning from him and rolling my own. He has used Nosler Partitions with great success since the 1970's. The other day while reloading we were discussing the grand design of the Partition and curious of the merits of the all copper TTSX with its unique x-shape expansion. It seems to have a rather large group of devout, experienced followers here on Africa Hunting. What are everyone's experience with the TTSX? What are their strengths and weaknesses? How do they compare to Nosler Partitions? I have a hard time leaving something that has proven so deadly in every application I have used it in. To be cliche, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." However, curiosity killed the cat, and a youngster always has crazy ideas. So, what are everyone's thought, ideas, and experiences with the TTSX? (I am unsure if this will have any bearing on your comments, but my main rifles are a 6.5-06, 30-06, and a 300 RUM).

Furthermore, how does reloading the TTSX compare to the Partition? It seems that the Barnes prefer to be seated much farther from the lands than the Partition. How readily available is reloading data for the TTSX? in a few quick searches, I have found data for the 300 RUM and 30-06 but not the 6.5-06. I know the 6.5-06 is somewhat obscure. (Again unsure if this has any bearing on comments, but I prefer the Alliant Reloader powder.)

Thanks for the input,
-Matt

 

[chashardy]

No experience with the TTSX, but I used Nosler Partitions on my hunt in Limpopo in 2018 and had great success. I've moved to the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and Swift A-Frame in my 375 and 300 winmag, but I really liked the Nosler Partition. Not sure why I switched. May have been availability of the Federal ammo. I don't reload, so I'm buying factory ammo. Recently got a 416 Rigby and I'm using TBBC and Swift A-Frame with it as I've not seen Nosler Partition in 416 Rigby when I've been shopping.

 

[Red Leg]

So I don't reload any longer, but I do have a lot of history with the commercially loaded TSX family of bullets. I have used them in .30 cal and larger, and based upon the few I have recovered, every single one performed as advertised - the remainder created exit wounds - all were decisive. In fact, in Africa, I only use either TSX or A-Frames. Neither has ever failed me there.

The TSX family reputation suffers a bit from its X bullet heritage which saw numerous documented cases of petal separation or lack of expansion. In my experience, they seem to be most effective and reliable in .338, .375, or 9.3.

There is nothing wrong with the old partition. For decades it was superior to almost anything else on the market where deep penetration was needed. It is, however, a design that has been eclipsed by several modern SP's. I believe the TSX and A-Frame are two of those.

 

[TMac]

The Barnes loading manual is online. I have used both bullets in your op, and the Barnes LRX. For game up to elk and the occasional moose, the LRX or TTSX are my preference. Barnes have the added benefit of no lead fragments in my meat. All my hunting is with the smaller calibers, usually .284 or less, so I avoid hollow points, like the TSX where possible. If my rifle won’t shoot a mono well, I’ll use a bonded bullet or a partition. All my hunting is the western USA. The only issue with Barnes for me so far, is most of my rifles need to be cleaned more often to maintain accuracy. With the tipped Barnes offerings, I am not as concerned about stepping down in bullet weight to keep velocity up due to their faster opening design. Count me as a fan of tipped Barnes bullets for medium game, I am sure I’d be as happy with the GMX or E-tip. That said, I will use a partition if my gun shoots it well, it’s a very good bullet for what I do, fast opening and good penetration.

 

[Art Lambart II]

Well Matt you sure know how to stir the pot but I’ll try to help. I have used both bullets in Africa in the same caliber (35 Whelen) and they both worked very well on plains game. The real difference in the two bullets is their design intent, the NP as you know is designed to shed its front core during expansion and the rear core and jacket continue with straight line penetration resulting in a final weight retention of 60%-65%. The TTSX on the other hand was designed to expand and retain 99% of its weight resulting in one of the deepest penetrating expanding bullets on the market. At standard velocities (<2800 fps) the NP is one of the finest hunting bullets on the planet, at magnum velocities the NP soft front core becomes a liability if the bullet encounters heavy bone resulting in reduced penetration. In my experience the NP will come to rest just under the skin on the opposite side expending all of its energy inside of the animal. The TTSX on the other hand excels at magnum velocities and has a hard time expanding at slow speeds. The TTSX often exits the animal creating a nice blood trail to follow if necessary but wasting some of its energy on empty air. When hunting heard animals like most African PG this over penetration may be an issue because if you hit the animal behind your target you have to pay for that one as well, Africa is not a buy one get one free market. The TTSX has another feature that many people like, because the TTSX is an all “copper” bullet it weights less than a traditional bullet of the same length. In theory this allows the shooter to use a lighter bullet but get the same penetration as a heavier cup and core bullet. So, a reloader could use a lighter bullet pushed at a higher velocity and expect the same results as a heavier bullet with less recoil.

So why is the Barnes recommended over the NP for African PG? The answer is simple the most recommended cartridge for PG is the 300 Win Mag a round the NP it not well suited for, the other reason is shot placement, most African PG is shot on the shoulder not behind it, so the tougher the expanding bullet the better your chance of smashing thru the shoulder and reaching the vitals. Both bullets work well for PG but IMHO if you use the NP use a heavy for caliber bullet and you will be happy with the results.

As a side note the Sable in my avatar was taken with a 35 Whelen using a 225 grain Barnes @ 2730 FPS but most of my PG was taken with the 35 Whelen using a 250 grain NP at 2550 FPS.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Ditto all the above. Art gave you exactly my reasoning and experience with NP and Barnes.
Also as previously mentioned the Swift A-frame is a big advance due to the bonded cores. The TBBC with the front bonded core is excellent if your rifle shoots it well. Others similar are Rhino and North Fork both with front bonded cores.
I still use NP in slower cartridges such as 30-06, but no longer in 300 WM unless loading it down to 30-06 velocity.

Best of luck in your search!

 

[Ryan]

I agree with Art on most points including how it excels with magnum speeds, though I'd say 30 cals in general are the most recommended riunds with the 30-06 and 308 besting out the 300 WM. But that's splitting hairs. My first two hunts in Namibia I used my 30-06 with 168 grain Barnes to take everything from springbok to kudu and zebra. They worked great. One of my hosts/farm owners used his tried and true 30-06 with 180 grain Nosler Partitions to take all sorts of game on the same farm with the same effect. So they both work great.

There's plenty of discussions on Barnes here. Perhaps the best, or longest running is
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/making-my-way-to-barnes.36029/

Making My Way To BARNES

 

[lwaters]

Taken from a Muskox 165 gr. Gmx at a little over 3000fps 300 Ruger compact mag. I used the nosler 180 gr. partition for most of my African game including Eland. I use whatever shot the best but I think the ttsx or gmx from Hornady would be best in the 300 rum.

 

[shootist~]

Well Matt you sure know how to stir the pot but I’ll try to help. I have used both bullets in Africa in the same caliber (35 Whelen) and they both worked very well on plains game. ?


............When hunting heard animals like most African PG this over penetration may be an issue because if you hit the animal behind your target you have to pay for that one as well, Africa is not a buy one get one free market. The TTSX has another feature that many people like, because the TTSX is an all “copper” bullet it weights less than a traditional bullet of the same length. In theory this allows the shooter to use a lighter bullet but get the same penetration as a heavier cup and core bullet. So, a reloader could use a lighter bullet pushed at a higher velocity and expect the same results as a heavier bullet with less recoil.


As a side note the Sable in my avatar was taken with a 35 Whelen using a 225 grain Barnes @ 2730 FPS but most of my PG was taken with the 35 Whelen using a 250 grain Nosler....

Hi Art,
I'm reading "The Perfect Shot II" now and Dr Robertson mentions the same concerns with pass throughs. But he also promotes the super premium bullets such as Barnes and Swift AF; along with the Nosler Partition at times, depending on the animal. (I'm referring to his chapter on Zebra.)

Question: Do you typically carry both the TTSX and the NPT (or possibly the AF) on your person at the same time? Any fouling issues switching back and forth?
Thanks.

 

[Art Lambart II]

Hi Art,
I'm reading "The Perfect Shot II" now and Dr Robertson mentions the same concerns with pass throughs. But he also promotes the super premium bullets such as Barnes and Swift AF; along with the Nosler Partition at times, depending on the animal. (I'm referring to his chapter on Zebra.)

Question: Do you typically carry both the TTSX and the NPT (or possibly the AF) on your person at the same time? Any fouling issues switching back and forth?
Thanks.

On my first safari I used the 250 grain NP in my 35 Whelen and on my second safari I used the 225 grain Barnes in my fathers 35 Whelen (My guns arrived in SA 4 days late). I don't mix and match ammo during my hunts so fouling was never an issue. Using a super premium bullet is not an issue as long as you know what's behind your target.

 

[KoadaKane]

Hi Art,

I reload. I’ve shot NP in .243, .257 AI, .270WSM, .300 WM, .300WSM, and .300WEA.....for some reason(s) they did not perform to my standards.

I “invested” in Barnes TTSX, TSX, and my .270WSM and .30 cal mags loved them. As TMAC mentioned, I have had to clean my bore more often*.

On one of my RSA hunts , the Sable was my last animal to be hunted. “Chip shot” at 175 yds for my .270WSM...1st shot ran off, 2nd shot, kept on running....PH and I chased it for 400-500 yds for a third shot. Finally put it down.

The first and second shot were approx. 2 inches apart....however WAY WAY off from the shoulder where I aimed for.

Upon returning home, I shot it again (not cleaned since RSA) and it was 20” off from zero.
*After extensive cleaning and at least 15 “blue” copper patches....the ,270WSM returned to my original zero.
Lesson learned: if I shot more than 5 shots, I CLEANED.

Just my .02 worth..

 

[KoadaKane]

.270WSM described above...

.470NE recovered from Cape buff

My other .02 worth

 

[Art Lambart II]

@KoadaKane I'm not surprised that you had issues with the NP in those high speed rounds, to much speed is a problem for the NP.

 

[Rick Cox]

The Nosler Partition is not a bonded bullet. It will 'open up' faster and dump more initial energy than most of the bonded or mono-lithic bullets, but you probably won't get quite the penetration as you would with more modern designs. There are many cases (related on this forum) of Partitions separating the lead from the jacket and failing to penetrate as well as expected, especially if hitting large bone. I would use them for game that does not require extreme penetration but where you want tramatic initial injury.

 

[MS 9x56]

My problem with Barnes is the level of copper fouling and degrading accuracy. That and the bullet length crowding powder space. Efficacy is fine but I don't enjoy spending all the extra time cleaning copper out of my barrel all the time. At the speeds I typically load to, the tried and true cup and core bullets work well for me. Just one mans opinion.

 

[Dr Ray]

The Nosler Partition is not a bonded bullet. It will 'open up' faster and dump more initial energy than most of the bonded or mono-lithic bullets, but you probably won't get quite the penetration as you would with more modern designs. There are many cases (related on this forum) of Partitions separating the lead from the jacket and failing to penetrate as well as expected, especially if hitting large bone. I would use them for game that does not require extreme penetration but where you want tramatic initial injury.

Good point Rick

 

[Bert the Turtle]

The partition was an early (successful) attempt to get something of a compromise between a large wound channel and deep penetration. Time marches on and bullet technology has advanced since the partition was state of the art. Which isn't to say that one needs state of the art. Animals haven't been up-armored in the last 60 years. For some uses, a partition will likely work better than a TTSX.

The partition gives a bigger initial wound channel as the front comes off then a smaller wound channel deeper in as the back continues on. Kind of a soft that is a little bit a solid. A TTSX is a deeper-penetrating bullet with an intermediate wound channel the whole way. Kind of a solid that is a bit of a soft.

Like everything, a bullet is a compromise. In a place where you could be shooting anything from a broadside impala to a quartering eland, I think the TTSX is a better compromise because the biggest animal has to dictate the bullet.

One thing I would definitely avoid is carrying different loads for different animals. Use a bullet suitable for the largest animals you are shooting and they will work just fine (although perhaps not quite as good as with the optimal bullet) on a smaller animal.

 

[LiegeRiver]

I used a 338-06 with 210 Partitions on a hunt in the EC in 2019. Velocity was about 2750 fps, and accuracy is stellar, usually under MOA if I do my part. Any bullet that I recovered exhibited perfect NP performance. So, yes, they do perform as intended at slightly lower velocities. 200 grain Accubonds give about the same accuracy with slightly more velocity. I use Ramshot Big Game powder and CCI 200 primers....WLR primers give me the same accuracy, but about 1 1/2” more elevation at 100 yards.

 

[mdwest]

I used 270gr factory loaded nosler partitions in my 375HH on my first safari (all PG)... the biggest thing taken with the rifle that trip was a big bodied waterbuck.. but there were no performance issues at all with the partitions.. they performed flawlessly..

Since then I have become a dyed in the wool Barnes TSX and TTSX convert.. Other than a couple of smaller caliber rifles that are used on smaller animals at reasonable ranger where I've happened to get a really good deal on hornady or other projectiles at some point, I pretty much load TSX and TTSX exclusively for everything .30 to .416 these days..

Ive taken a wide variety of game all over NA (including AK) and Africa at this point with barnes bullets and never once had a single failure to perform at or beyond expectations.. and without exception, they are accurate in every rifle I load them for..

Im guessing I wont ever load anything else unless barnes decides to change their design in some way at some point in the future and screw it up...

Im not seeing a whole lot of room left for improvement.. they fly straight, they perform on impact at ranges from 30 yards to 300 yards at everything I shoot them at, from everything I shoot them out of...

Really cant ask for more than that..

 

[Rum Runner]

I'm a hand-loader and this post is very timely! The other day I decided to get my Parker Hale 7mm Rem Mag back in action and started looking around for bullets. After an exhaustive search, I found some! 150 gr TTSX.

At first I was disappointed I couldn't find anything heavier, then I realized Barnes doesn't make a heavier TTSX bullet in 7mm. So, to take advantage of the bullet, I have to get it going fast, I'm thinking around 2900 fps. Unfortunately, the barrel is only 21 inches long, so I'm going to be on the high end of the load recipe, but I'm going to work up to it.

I took my .270 Win to Africa last year and was shooting 140 gr TSX. The bullets performed perfectly, but take a look at this one. This was a quartering shot, so the bullet nearly passed through the entire body. Anyway, this was only about a 100 yard shot. I would expect more expansion (muzzle velocity was 2700 fps).

Barnes bullets love speed, and, from what I can tell, you need to be some distance from the lands. So I'm in the process of bumping up the speed of my .270 for the TSX, and finding a speed for the 7mm TTSX (I'm looking for around 2900 fps). Here is the problem, I run into high pressure issues (like in the .270, the brass would flatten, ruining the primer hole size) with Barnes bullets when ever I get close to the recommended max. I don't have this problem with the A-Frames or Sirocco bullets. Fantastic bullets, you just have to watch the pressure...