North Fork Cup Point

[MLindsay]

I am thinking about trying some in my 500 A2
I have been looking for a ballistic gel comparison between them and flat nosed solids and have not found any
Any info would be appreciated

 

[analog_peninsula]

Following

 

[450 Dakota]

My understanding is the cup point will mushroom slightly causing more damage but will penetrate a little less than the flat point.

 

[fourfive8]

My understanding is the cup point will mushroom slightly causing more damage but will penetrate a little less than the flat point.

That has been my experience using them in my 416 Rem. I believe @michael458 has quite a bit of data on testing them.

 

[SStomcat]

Pretty similar to the woodleigh hydros - creates a larger wound cavity due to the bullet opening up due to the cavity.

 

[Green Chile]

I’ve taken ele, buff and a number of large PG with them. Exits can be expected. PHs have all liked the results. There is an audible large hit with them and dust flies up from a large area on the animal. For instance, a zebra stallion was crushed in both shoulders and fell straight down while his whole back line raised up in a dust cloud. My experiences with them have all been in the 416 Rigby.

 

[michael458]

That has been my experience using them in my 416 Rem. I believe @michael458 has quite a bit of data on testing them.

My understanding is the cup point will mushroom slightly causing more damage but will penetrate a little less than the flat point.

A limited penetration solid is designed for two purposes. To give increased trauma to the target, causing more tissue destruction, and deeper penetration than what you would get with a conventional expanding bullet, or even a trauma inflicting bullet such as the CEB Raptors and 1st Generation CNC Copper bullets. A limited penetration solid does not transmit as much trauma as the Raptors or Gen 1 Copper bullets, but it does penetrate deeper. Bullets like the North Fork CPS and the Woodleigh Hydro accomplish added trauma to the tissue or medium by increased surface area, and movement of fluids within the tissue or medium. In the case of the North Fork Cup Point, former owner of North Fork described it in these terms. The Cup Point fools the medium or tissue into believing that the meplat is larger than it actually is, by being a cup point, the increased surface area of the bullet is in contact with the tissue and medium telling it that. You can see the increased surface area here in this photo, the two bullets on top have been fired and recovered, the one on the bottom is unfired.

There is a big difference in depth of penetration between the Limited Penetration Solids, LPS, and the Deep Diving solids designed to penetrate straight and deep.......Each have different missions and end results.

My friend John Koegler former owner of North Fork designed two .458 caliber expanding CPS for 45/70’s. A 325 gr and 350 gr. When I tested these bullets I was very impressed with just how capable they were. John had taken the cavity of the CPS and made it deeper, and wider at the top, so that the copper would actually peel back very similar to an expanding conventional bullet design. However, these bullets were limited in the amount of expansion, giving superb penetration and increased trauma. Something in between a LPS and a Conventional Expanding.

I named these bullets ExCPS, Expanding Cup Point Solids. The penetration in test medium with either of the .458 caliber bullets were buffalo capable, and that is impressive with a 325 to 350 gr .458 caliber bullet. I was so impressed with the performance of these, I requested that John design these for me in .500 caliber as well. We went with a 375 gr ExCPS in .500 caliber for my smaller .500s and a 450 gr ExCPS for my larger capacity .500s.

In my test medium, these prove to be buffalo capable at 23 inches of penetration. Later proven by my son Matthew hunting with Paul Truccolo taking this very large body bull in Australia.

For my purposes I am very fond of the ExCPS, or "Expanding Cup Point Solid" I have used the 450 .500 caliber on buffalo, and in one outing used a 425 gr .474 caliber that I had North Fork design on a very nice Aussie Bull.

To the best of my current knowledge NF still produces the Expanding CPS, they may not realize it, and not sure they have extended that bullet tech to other calibers.


Here are a couple of 370 gr .416 caliber NF CPS..........These were just standard CPS at higher velocity in .416.

 

[Gunnie]

Kevin Robertson gave a deep dive into them on one of his videos he did with The Big Game Hunting Podcast it’s available via YouTube. Its title Africa Hunting Bullets 101.

Just relistened to it the other day. He is a huge proponent of Cup point solids and the descriptions he gives of the wound channels were very good. Basic breakdown wound channel wise was RN give half caliber sized wounds. Flat nose depending on meplat might give full caliber or just under. Cup point solids giving double caliber. He spoke of penetration that was also very good. My take away was that and a quality soft would probably cover everything a man could plan to shoot.

 

[doctari505]

This is a recovered 350 grain .375 North Fork CNS from a buffalo backing shot as it ran away quartering slightly. Bullet impact was just in front of the left hip bone and I recovered it in the very front of the chest cavity. It passed through the full length of the rumen and the exit hole can be see in these photos - what is important to note is its size - easily three times the CNSs final expanded diameter. From side-on these bullets will exit but for backing shots they are very effective with bigger permanent wound channels than tat of a FNS.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I obtained some North Fork CPS rounds and some Woodleigh Hydro solids both in 300g for my first buffalo hunt. I had planned on using Barnes TSX for my first two rounds and having one of the solids loaded for the last 2 or 3 in the mag. To me, it sounded like a good plan. But, a couple of things happened to change my mind. Neither of my rifles will feed the flat point North Fork rounds reliably. They hand up every time I try to cycle the bolt fast. I tried the Woodleighs since the rounded poly tip in theory should feed better. They did not. In the end, my PH asked me to leave them home as he was getting good results with the TSX's alone and did not think the solids would be needed for Buffalo. This would be different if the prey was Elephant but we would not be using a 375 for that. Something larger.

So, just make sure you are comfortable with how these rounds function if you choose to use them.

 

[mms45]

Kevin Robertson gave a deep dive into them on one of his videos he did with The Big Game Hunting Podcast it’s available via YouTube. Its title Africa Hunting Bullets 101.

Just relistened to it the other day. He is a huge proponent of Cup point solids and the descriptions he gives of the wound channels were very good. Basic breakdown wound channel wise was RN give half caliber sized wounds. Flat nose depending on meplat might give full caliber or just under. Cup point solids giving double caliber. He spoke of penetration that was also very good. My take away was that and a quality soft would probably cover everything a man could plan to shoot.

funny I just listened to that interview yesterday

 

[Gunnie]

funny I just listened to that interview yesterday

I was rereviewing some of his interviews and his thoughts on the CPS has me wanting to shoot my supply of factory 300gr Hornady DGS and load some NFs but ill have to wait until there available to do so. The lack of supply on the NorthFork PP/SS bullets is what drove me to the TSX in my 375.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

Way less in depth and scientific than above, but give them a thumbs up on their ability to help the 450NE shock and awe hippo on dry land. I was shocked how well they held up, and just how incredibly dense the heavy bone of hippo truly are. The dense bone made the CEB Raptor swell like I’d never seen. The 500gr NF Cupped retained 99.9% weight, the 470gr Raptor weighed around 385gr if I remember correctly.

 

[analog_peninsula]

I’ve read they aren’t recommended for elephant, but I’ve also seen a number of references to their successful use. What says the Brain Trust?

 

[Green Chile]

Awesome results on that big hippo. Here is the only CPS I have recovered so far...very large bodied eland was shot on the root of the tail and recovered against the skin on the chest. Penetration was well over 5 feet through the rumen, etc. The eland dropped so fast that the guide called it the Rigby handbrake.

 

[mms45]

Awesome results on that big hippo. Here is the only CPS I have recovered so far...very large bodied eland was shot on the root of the tail and recovered against the skin on the chest. Penetration was well over 5 feet through the rumen, etc. The eland dropped so fast that the guide called it the Rigby handbrake.

View attachment 789028

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416?

 

[Green Chile]

I’ve read they aren’t recommended for elephant, but I’ve also seen a number of references to their successful use. What says the Brain Trust?

I know that NF doesn't recommend using CPS on ele. After a lot of discussion (before the hunt) with the PH, we decided to try it. I had no concerns of a head shot but ended up taking a heart shot on a bull at about 40 yards. He spun on the shot and ran towards the river boundary but fell within 50 yards. Insurance was paid and that was the end of it. I don't feel the need to do it again but I was never concerned and the results were flawless. Sample of one only. Bullet was not recovered.

 

[Green Chile]

416?

Correct...416 Rigby, 400 grains at about 2350 fps. Not a heavy redlined load by any means.

 

[BC Tal]

My 400gr Northfork cup point solids in 416 Rigby pushed by Vihtavuori N560 to 2322fps. The bullet below was the only one recovered from a cape buffalo shot somewhere around 80-100m.

 

[SStomcat]

This is a recovered 350 grain .375 North Fork CNS from a buffalo backing shot as it ran away quartering slightly. Bullet impact was just in front of the left hip bone and I recovered it in the very front of the chest cavity. It passed through the full length of the rumen and the exit hole can be see in these photos - what is important to note is its size - easily three times the CNSs final expanded diameter. From side-on these bullets will exit but for backing shots they are very effective with bigger permanent wound channels than tat of a FNS.

You mean CPS? or there is something they make as CNS?