Minimum stopping round?

[spike.t]

The minimum I would use would be 375 H&H but for Elephant I draw the line at 404 Jeff.

just as well you mentioned the .404 there after the other thing.....

 

[spike.t]

Common they are, cause it is the single most versatile calibre you can buy for Africa..

yup but its one of my pet wind ups, along with there being only one .416 which is of course the Rigby......

 

[IvW]

yup but its one of my pet wind ups, along with there being only one .416 which is of course the Rigby......

Yip the Rigby is the best of the 416's but the "other thing" is still the King of the medium bores. The Rigby is a great calibre. I would not mind it over a 404 Jeff at all.

The "other thing" is also probably the biggest your average first time DG hunter can handle and would be comfortable with, the slightly recoil shy as mentioned.

 

[Jimbob]

The cartridge which shall not be named is great, everyone knows it. I wouldn't want one in my hands for stopping a charge though but it's better than nowt and better than most.

I think traditional 404 loads (so 450/400 ballistics) would be my minimum with 416 (yes, the English one) or a modern loaded 404 being preferred if I could shoot them all equally well.

 

[Nyati]

That is so and is the calibre he uses for Buffalo, Lion etc. For elephant hunting he prefers his 500 Jeff.

He describes it as "The most devastatingly effective combination I have ever used on elephant even in the most dangerous situations."

As you mention the most important part is shot placement with an appropriate calibre for the task.

I know Tony personally, and he says that he prefers a bolt rifle for open areas and a double for hunting in thick vegetation, whatever animal he is hunting.

 

[Buckdog]

Then your PHs are getting overpaid!

All jokes aside, the PHs I know are not remotely interested or knowledgeable on guns. They emphasize it's just a tool over and over again, a sad, un-lubricated , unloved, injured, broken tool. Those tools are all .458s either Mausers or BRNO.

Keep in mind, these are Zim boys and they cannot afford ammo so they are relying on old trusted calibers that clients can leave them ammo or they can get a few smuggled rounds. Rumor has it 458 is cheapest DG round at $300-$400 a box in Zim!

Damn, Rookhawk i knew i was tipping them too well to afford those fancy double cannons! FYI 4 are sponsors of this site packing those doubles, so those damn sponsor PH's are overchging to buy those doubles. we better get after them. Just teasing those guys are all great and they earn every penny they made to buy those babies and they can back me up with one all day every day and one will be next to me with a double 470 when i put a large hole in a buff soon

 

[Jimbob]

It's all priorities isn't it. I don't go out clubbing, buy expensive clothes, or any other luxury. I do this simply because buying a new rifle or new hunting kit is at the top of my list.
People can afford most, but not all, things given time and patience. Fortunately most on here aren't of the generation, or mindset, which wants something right away.

 

[rookhawk]

Well said @Jimbob

The group here is by and large about the how as much as about the result. Saving, appreciating the full experience and the traditions it entails is much of the joy of safari hunting.

You can tell instantly when someone has reverence for their weapon. I've seen some stunning, loved, and well used guns worth little more than $1000. Nonetheless, the attention to service, the story, and the soul of the gun made it priceless. It was the best the owner could afford and it was treated with reverence. I'm sure the poster above that has a nazi Mauser in 338/06 knows that feeling. Sublime perfection doesn't mean $250,000 gun necessarily.

Saving for the best you can is it's own reward. What are you saving for, @Jimbob?

 

[Jimbob]

Oh @rookhawk thats a can of worms! First and foremost is my DG rifle. Not just any rifle but my scratch built, home designed, straight pull, toggle lock, ugly as sin rifle. It may take a few years but she will live.
Concurrent to that is saving for a buffalo to justify the blighter!
I figure I'm only 28, I have time to build her up, get myself to Africa to christen her, and then return once I've been bitten by the bug!

You hit the nail on the head with rifles meaning something to their owners. My rifle won't have much in her really but she'll be mine and a true one off. I think having kit that you have a connection with can be very beneficial to the memory.

You saving for anything?

 

[rookhawk]

I'm pretty solid now as I've consolidated a fairly gigantic collection into a small group of guns that fit me well and I like.

I'll get a 470 double eventually.

I have a .318 take down now. I have a .375 London gun I'll someday trade off for a 375 take down if it comes around. A British made .404 is on the list.

I have a very nice 7x57 that I'll someday part with when I acquire a Rigby take down of the same.

In short, I'm getting to a smaller, more personal collection of best quality vintage guns over the course of time. It feels good to declutter and it is a great feeling to have a gun you know you can operate perfectly under most conditions.

 

[Jimbob]

Well what you have sounds very special and what you wish to acquire sounds even more so.
Sensible cartridge choices as well, there is no game which can't be matched perfectly with a 7x57, a 318, a 375, a 404, or a 470.

I know what you mean, I've just decluttered on a much smaller scale. My 45-120 and my 308 are gone, making room for a 9.3x57 Swedish Mauser.