Minimum stopping round?

Jimbob

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Of course a 375 will take anything on the planet but what would everyone consider the minimum as a stopping round?
Let's say you are a professional hunter but want to reduce recoil for whatever reason, what would be your choice?
404 Jeff? A 416? 458 Win Mag?
 

CAustin

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Interesting question for the professionals.
 

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The only way I can answer this is by saying a Professional hunter should not need to worry about recoil. All of the above calibers have been used successfully. Just think of Harry Selby's .416 Rigby.
 

Jimbob

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Too true, 416 and the other have been used successfully. As has 375 but most wouldn't call it a stopping rifle.
I see what you mean about not having t worry about recoil but an older PH may want to reduce recoil due to injury or reduce rifle weight for similar reasons.
That been said I do know a 64 year old PH who uses a 15.5lb 577 and walks 20+ km a day.
 

IvW

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At a minimum 404 Jeff or if you can handle a bit more recoil 416 Rigby.
 

HeinrichH

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I believe in my experience, nothing less than 500gr. Any caliber you prefer as long as you are shooting at least a 500gr bullet.

The 416, 404, and 375 have surely done their part, i used a 375 for many years before i bought my 470, and stopped numerous animals with it with well placed shots, but we cant always shoot straight, and that day that we don't, your going to need that extra weight in your bullet.

500gr as a minimum i believe. Especially if your hunting dangerous game more often than not, because then you have a lot bigger chance of getting in trouble with a wounded animal.
 

IvW

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"Minimum" as asked by Jimbob would be 404 Jeff (it is superb with the new 450 gr Rhino bullet)

Agreed, if you regularly hunt dangerous game, the biggest caliber you can handle and shoot accurately is what you want. This for me would start with the 450 Rigby, definitely not a 458 Win Mag, then whatever you can handle above that. As for doubles 450/400 as minimum and then up from there.

My personal DG back up rifle is a custom 500 Jeff, on a ZKK 602 action, shooting 570 gn Rhino's at 2300 Fps, devastatingly effective in any situation.
 

HeinrichH

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"Minimum" as asked by Jimbob would be 404 Jeff (it is superb with the new 450 gr Rhino bullet)

Agreed, if you regularly hunt dangerous game, the biggest caliber you can handle and shoot accurately is what you want. This for me would start with the 450 Rigby, definitely not a 458 Win Mag, then whatever you can handle above that. As for doubles 450/400 as minimum and then up from there.

My personal DG back up rifle is a custom 500 Jeff, on a ZKK 602 action, shooting 570 gn Rhino's at 2300 Fps, devastatingly effective in any situation.

The 500 Jeff is an outstanding rifle! If i had to choose a bolt action for dangerous game it would only be a 500 Jeff. Used one for a whole season few years back, just fantastic on big game!
 

Buckdog

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I am not a ph but a client and as i was arranging this yrs buff hunt I ran across a very nice young PH who is on this site he packs a 375. In my humble opinion not enough gun for a PH to be carrying as the Stopper and hunting DG and I told him I did not feel comfortable when I was carrying a bigger stick than my PH. I am not hunting with him and will not hunt DG with a PH that isnt carrying a stopper aka 500grs or more, too much can happen and if it all goes to hell 2 big sticks are better than one to end problems before someone is hurt, etc.
just my opinion and my money on the table so I get too make that choice. Ph I am using has a double rifle at least a 470, I have shot it, it is sweet! kicked like hell.
 

Gert Odendaal

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Members, throughout a lot of discussions on this forum by large is about recoil of a dangerous game rifle , what work and what does not work in the field of dangerous game hunting.... nowhere is there a discussion about how flawless your or your PH`s stopper rifle cycle the rounds in the magazine when extremely fast cycling of the bolt is needed in a charge for example.....:whistle::whistle::unsure::unsure:
Please take your rifle to a shooting range..dangerous game rifle and try to cycle your rifle as fast as possible ..that is the only way you can say your rifle is fit to be use as a dangerous game hunting rifle if it can cycle at high speed without fault..every time..under any circumstances..being it a stopper rifle or a client rifle ..when hunting again in Africa for dangerous game ..please ask your PH to demonstrate how fast he will be able to cycle his stopper rifle so you can see how it is done..if his rifle will be able to just do that....I really would like to hear from you in this regard..a video about this effort will be much appreciated....(y)(y)(y)
 

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Almost all of the African PH's I have had the pleasure of talking about rifles with, when guiding on Dangerous Game, carry some variation of Mauser, in caliber 458 Lott or the ballistic equivalent .458 - 3 Inch South African Express.
The Brno 602 and it's first cousin, the CZ 550, being the most typical .458's, owned by these interesting and intelligent fellows.
 

Buckdog

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gert,
of the 5 or 6 PH I have had the pleasure of knowing and/or hunting with and seeing their weapons all but one had a double rifle, I am pretty sure Mr. Pieter Erasmus carries a double too. the lone one with a bolt gun was a custom mauser action.
so cycling of action kinda moot for a PH with a double. but definitely not moot for clients to pay heed too.
 

peras

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gert,
of the 5 or 6 PH I have had the pleasure of knowing and/or hunting with and seeing their weapons all but one had a double rifle, I am pretty sure Mr. Pieter Erasmus carries a double too. the lone one with a bolt gun was a custom mauser action.
so cycling of action kinda moot for a PH with a double. but definitely not moot for clients to pay heed too.
Yes sir, I carry a .500NE double.
 

Gert Odendaal

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Members mentioned PH`s they hunt with use bolt action rifles, I think my request is only applicable regarding hunters/PH using bolt action rifles..as pointed out usually discussions is about recoil, what caliber is suitable in Dangerous game hunting...this is the rationale why I suggest hunters/PH should take a look at their bolt actions and try to cycle the bolt as fast as possible..it definitely will exhibit any flaws about the bolt action rifle you depend your life on when getting in a dangerous situation..or if you are a Usain Bolt type of hunter it maybe saving your bacon..hunters are usually theoretical inclined..very few tend to the technical properties and expertise in using /handling their rifles...(y)(y)
 

matt85

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i have had 3 different PH's in the field and the guns they carried were a 416 Rigby, 458 Lott, and a 470 NE. the PH with the 416 Rigby recently traded in that rifle for a 500 NE.

i didnt feel unsafe with my PH's carrying any of those three chamberings but i do think trading the 416 in for a 500 was a good move. i love 416 caliber cartridges but believe @HeinrichH is correct about using 500+ grain pills for stopping dangerous game.

not sure id be entirely comfortable with a PH backing me up with a 375. i know it can work but it wont give me the confidence id get from something bigger watching my back.

-matt
 

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I think Gert hit it right on the head saying one should know how his rifle functions. I believe it behooves all of us--PH and client alike to practice and see just how fast we can CONSISTANTLY cycle rounds regardless of type or caliber. If recoil slows one down getting back on target it calls for more practice to overcome that muzzle jump. If the bolt ever hangs up or slows down cycling it should be diagnosed and repaired or the ammo should be checked for size. It's gotta work each and every time, folks. Someone's life may be on the line. Who knows. Client may have to bail out his PH sometime. Even the best equipment is not foolproof.
 

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Of the 6 different PH's I have hunted with, not all DG hunts mind you, but DG is always around, 3 carried a .375, one a .458, one a .338 Win mag, and one a 9.3x62. I wouldn't not hunt with a PH because his rifle was smaller than mine, he probably wields his better than I do.
 

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"Minimum" as asked by Jimbob would be 404 Jeff (it is superb with the new 450 gr Rhino bullet)

.

Am I seeing correctly? Yeeeehaaaaa! I also requested them to make on a year or two back but had to order a huge batch that wasn't feasible for testing.

Had Claw made up a bunch of 450gr and they were monsters! in fact I took the first ever animal with the new 450gr Claws.

The 450gr in a 404 Jeff is one hell of a combo!
 

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As a PH's rifle, i reckon a stopper would be any of the 458's and above.
Thats pretty much why they are made arent they?

The 404/416's with 450gr loads must be pretty decent as well, i liked shooting the 450gr solids from my 416.
I would still say though 458 and above as dedicated stopper.
@Thor Kirchner, didnt you use a 404 for quite a while?
 

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