Managing Safari Rifle Recoil - Every trick in the book?

[rookhawk]

So I've been working on a dangerous game rifle with my middle kid and I'm working on every trick in the book. I'm sharing what I thought of that might help others, and I invite others to make additional suggestions that might provide additional relief.

The goal: Dangerous game rifle that can be shot properly by someone that weighs 110lbs.

I was able to pick up a nice Dakota 76 in 375HH from a fellow AH member as a starting point. The gun has 13-5/8" length of pull through a 1" factory pad. The rifle tips the scales at just a smidge under 8lbs with iron sights.

The project:

1.) I dug through the load data and was able to find 260gr solids and softs for the 375HH that were very tough, but obviously a bit lighter than the standard 300gr lead core solids and softs. By reducing the bullet weight it shaved 1-2lbs of recoil while increasing velocity quite a bit. Volumetrically, the monometals of 260gr are physically a bit larger than a "normal" 300gr bullet since brass and copper weigh less than lead.

2.) Thumbing through the reloading tables, I found that the powder that will do the proper velocity with the least number of grains was IMR4895. This powder versus 4350 or RL15 seems to reduce recoil by another 1-2lbs. It appears it will send a 260gr solid around 2450-2475fps with 62gr.

3.) I found some low rings to keep his face on the stock better. We're trading scopes, I have a z6 1-6x24 Extended Eye Relief for no good reason on my single shot 7x57. He has a z6i 1-6x24 on his other rifle. We agreed to trade so he'd have a bit more eye relief and a bit less fear of that optic coming back at him. Scope and rings should add 1lb of rifle weight.

4.) We need to shorten the LOP. Chatting with NECG, they thought the idea of removing the 1" recoil pad and replacing it with a 3/4" pad was a fine idea. They also thought I could sand .100" off the belly of the pad's hard plastic would shorten the LOP even more without diminishing recoil absorption. That should get the rifle down to around 13", maybe 12-7/8".

5.) Adding a 16 ounce Mercury Recoil Reducer to the butt of the gun seemed like a way to add a pound of weight. Net result appears to be a 12% recoil reduction for the gun overall, about 3.5lbs of felt recoil.

Add all of this up, and it seems like a dangerous game rifle can be used with a hunting load at about 27lbs of felt recoil without permanently altering the stock or using an unethical "diminished load", coming from a starting point of 38lbs-39lbs of recoil initially. I haven't run the data but I heard rumor that a 3031 load might even have less recoil at an equivalent or higher velocities so that's the next part of the journey.

For those of you that are dads out there trying to accomplish similar things, I'd be happy to share the trickery of the last two gun projects we did, a .243 low-recoil setup for 6-7 year old kids and a 7x64 brenneke setup for African plains game. We went on a similar journey for the archers in the family to get them hunting big game with their bows at 8 and 9 years old. It's been enjoyable to learn and build this stuff but it sort of surprised me how little information actually exists on the web regarding women and children hunting setups.

 

[VertigoBE]

I’ll say, to find anyone who has any more tricks up their sleeve than you, will be a hard commodity to find for sure! I’m sure he’ll do great!

 

[Muskox]

Don't use something like Norma 205. That will wake up the dragons.

 

[M McDindi]

Recoil "tolerance" is a learned/acquired ability and best to be slowly built up to. Likewise, tolerance can diminish with absence of practice and familiarity.

From what you've done above, you're well on track. To perhaps help him build tolerance I'd suggest a couple of more things.

a) Build confidence and trigger time with the lightest weight bullets you can find. Use the minimum published loads that you can and then over several range sessions add powder gradually to max load for those lighter weight bullets then move up to a heavier bullet with min powder charge. Repeat and keep moving up.

b) IF shooting off the bench and sandbags/rest, add bags/padding under the forestock to make sure he is sitting up straighter in the chair and not laying over the rifle. This allows the recoil to more easily push him up/back and that transfers some of the recoil back and up instead of more horizontally down his shoulder/back.

c) Practice standing off sticks - by standing, you again reduce the felt recoil because his upper body moves backwards easier from the recoil.

d) MOST IMPORTANT - DON'T OVER DO IT!. Carefully watch for signs of him tiring. Telltale sign is his groups will start to open up. STOP at that point as continuing on, even though he may be willing will only reduce his confidence. If you/he want to keep shooting, move to something small bore to reinforce the proper techniques.

f) IF he starts to flinch, STOP immediately with the 375 training for the day. Move down to a small bore if you want to continue your range time.

I follow this advice for myself in prepping for the hunting season as used this to teach my wife (5' 4", 130lbs) to work up to big bore rifles. She has and regularly shoots her own 375 Ruger and a 458 WM and has pulled the trigger 3x on 500 Jeff and asked for another.

Good luck and go slow.

 

[crs]

In my experience, teach young ones when they are "ready" and if you know your kids, you will know when.
My kids and grand kids came along at different ages and it worked out well.
As for me? My dad was an avid fly fisherman and we learned fishing from him.
I taught myself to shoot, bought my own guns and ammo and my early hunting was mostly solo.
Still prefer that except when on Safari.

 

[rookhawk]

Recoil "tolerance" is a learned/acquired ability and best to be slowly built up to. Likewise, tolerance can diminish with absence of practice and familiarity.

From what you've done above, you're well on track. To perhaps help him build tolerance I'd suggest a couple of more things.

a) Build confidence and trigger time with the lightest weight bullets you can find. Use the minimum published loads that you can and then over several range sessions add powder gradually to max load for those lighter weight bullets then move up to a heavier bullet with min powder charge. Repeat and keep moving up.

b) IF shooting off the bench and sandbags/rest, add bags/padding under the forestock to make sure he is sitting up straighter in the chair and not laying over the rifle. This allows the recoil to more easily push him up/back and that transfers some of the recoil back and up instead of more horizontally down his shoulder/back.

c) Practice standing off sticks - by standing, you again reduce the felt recoil because his upper body moves backwards easier from the recoil.

d) MOST IMPORTANT - DON'T OVER DO IT!. Carefully watch for signs of him tiring. Telltale sign is his groups will start to open up. STOP at that point as continuing on, even though he may be willing will only reduce his confidence. If you/he want to keep shooting, move to something small bore to reinforce the proper techniques.

f) IF he starts to flinch, STOP immediately with the 375 training for the day. Move down to a small bore if you want to continue your range time.

I follow this advice for myself in prepping for the hunting season as used this to teach my wife (5' 4", 130lbs) to work up to big bore rifles. She has and regularly shoots her own 375 Ruger and a 458 WM and has pulled the trigger 3x on 500 Jeff and asked for another.

Good luck and go slow.

Outstanding checklist, @M McDindi

Point C is so key it can’t be overstated. We aren’t really “gun guys” that enjoy shooting large caliber rifles. We’re hunting heathens that dream of game steaks on a fire after a great hunt. As such, target practice is a means to an end and that’s why we shoot off sticks. It’s real-world practical and it cuts the recoil way down.

I have little to add to your awesome list of commandments, but I did figure out that little kids 5-6-7 build flinches due to many factors including noise. The very first gun my kids shot at the range was a 17HMR. They make a helluva lot of noise but there is absolutely zero recoil. Once they dazzled themselves with 50 shots inside a salad plate at 50 yards on their first range day, I then slipped them a .243 with a Hornady diminished recoil round. They then experienced 4 pounds of felt recoil for the first time and thus were accustomed both to a very loud bang and a very light push.

I remember taking my at the time 7 year old to a mandatory training course before he was allowed to do a state run “learn to hunt deer” event. He brought his trusty .243 and he shot three shots at 60 yards from a bench. They sent him home. We drove 6 hours and they saw the shooting results and figured we had better things to do than putter around all day doing more target practice so far from home.

 

[chashardy]

Have you tried some skeet or sporting clays with a 20 gauge, or a 12 gauge if he can handle it.?
Might help in building recoil tolerance. His focus will be on the clays, not the gun. Might work better than doing nothing but rifle training on a bench or sticks.

 

[ve7poi]

When shooting off bench use a past recoil pad spreads recoil over larger area

 

[rookhawk]

Have you tried some skeet or sporting clays with a 20 gauge, or a 12 gauge if he can handle it.?
Might help in building recoil tolerance. His focus will be on the clays, not the gun. Might work better than doing nothing but rifle training on a bench or sticks.

Yes, that’s great advice. He’s a formidable sporting clays shooter with his english 12 bore side by side. First time he tried it, he didn’t miss on the first 6-7 stations. (38 clays consecutively) He’s fairly used to the recoil of his 7x64 that he’s used on safaris previously, but 19lbs of recoil (7x64) Is different than 38lbs of recoil (375HH) so I’ve been working with him on a viable safari rifle for dangerous game that splits the difference.

 

[BeeMaa]

@rookhawk - You have quite the complete list and it looks like your son is well on his way to being an accomplished marksman regardless of caliber.

The only advice I haven't seen offered is dry fire practice from hunting positions. I have found this to be an effective training tool with everything from handguns to shotguns to rifles. Learning to be comfortable with the rifle and spending time working the bolt, developing the muscle memory and trigger control will make your range sessions shorter and more effective. Minor corrections in his shooting form can be done from the comfort of your living room. Not to mention saving money on ammo. When you do go to the range, he will be more confident in his technique and this will translate to better shooting results.

It only takes about 15 minutes a day to work on this, but the payoff is HUGE in the end. Shooting is a skill...a perishable skill that we all need to practice.

Congratulations to your son on his (tiny) grouping for qualification. A testament to your guidance and training to this point.

 

[Mwag]

Something else to add, while shooting off bench, a mouthguard like used for football will keep from chipping or cracking teeth from the big thumpers

 

[Aaron N]

Looks like you’re doing everything you can to make this a comfortable gun for your boy, very commendable!

One question/concern I have, do you intend to take this rifle to Africa in the next couple years before he grows into full recoil? The mercury recoil reducer might give you flying issues?

I’m 90% sure you’ve already had that though, but I thought I’d bring it up in case you hadn’t.

 

[Frank Cavallo]

The biggest recoil reducer is a live animal in the sights.

Nothing hits you harder than shooting at paper.

Frankly, I don’t consider the 3-7-5 a hard hitter at all- the case taper is more conducive to a push rather than the jolt of a Wby Venturi shoulder.

To me the 3-7-5 feels no more different than a 300 Win which feels no more different than a two-seventy. (But I guess there are a lot of pussies out there- ain’t that the reason for the popularity of the Creedmors?!?!?!?!?!)

You can do whatever you want, but there is theoretical/paper calculated recoil and felt recoil. I have never felt recoil when shooting at an animal.

 

[Buffalo1]

This is some interesting info. Tks for sharing.

 

[Bonk]

Everything you've done makes a lot of sense. My only comment is don't overlook the value of working up to the caliber. For reasons yet unknown my ex-wife wanted a 45-70. She would not be deterred so we bought her a Henry lever action. Prior to this rifle she'd never shot anything stouter than a 22Mag.

We went out back to our range and I had her shoot a bunch of 22Mag rounds from a Henry lever action. Then she shot a bunch of 38spl rounds through my 1873 357. Then some 357 through the same rifle. Next up was some light cowboy loads through my 1873 45 Colt. Then some factory 45 Colt loads. Finally she fired my 30-30 for a few rounds. When she finally fired the 45-70 it wasn't a big deal. Yes, it has way more recoil than anything else she fired but by the time she got to the 45-70 she was used to the noise, weight and recoil.

 

[curtism1234]

I would just have him shoot the iron sights - can't get smacked in the eye with a scope if there isn't one on there. Set up a paper plate at 50 yards and just have him stand up shooting at it 3 times slowfire and put the gun away for the day. I wouldn't worry about the groups or if he misses it a time or two. Just enjoy the punishment and try it again another day.

 

[Philip Glass]

I am wondering how you measured the actual recoil? Interesting journey. A suppressor is another idea if you are going somewhere you can use one.

 

[Tra3]

The biggest recoil reducer is a live animal in the sights.

Nothing hits you harder than shooting at paper.

Frankly, I don’t consider the 3-7-5 a hard hitter at all- the case taper is more conducive to a push rather than the jolt of a Wby Venturi shoulder.

To me the 3-7-5 feels no more different than a 300 Win which feels no more different than a two-seventy. (But I guess there are a lot of pussies out there- ain’t that the reason for the popularity of the Creedmors?!?!?!?!?!)

You can do whatever you want, but there is theoretical/paper calculated recoil and felt recoil. I have never felt recoil when shooting at an animal.

Well, this pussy can tell the difference between a .270 and a .375. I suspect about 99% of hunters can also tell the difference.

I agree that recoil is not felt when shooting at a live target. But a kid really should have hundreds of rounds down the pipe before being permitted to shoot at a live animal. Getting those practice shots done without developing bad habits is a valuable goal and worth the effort. I’ve seen many moor poor shooters than good ones, and that is because of the lack of dedicated practice and buildup that @rookhawk is focused on doing.

I’d add to this discussion the need to avoid shooting in a T-shirt. A bit of clothing helps. Maybe a fleece vest, or anything more than 1 thin layer.
Also, I always have kids work up the ladder in recoil in each shooting session. So bring a .22, a .243/6.5, then 7 mag or .30-06, then .375. That progression up and down seems to really help.

 

[rookhawk]

I am wondering how you measured the actual recoil? Interesting journey. A suppressor is another idea if you are going somewhere you can use one.

Recoil is a formula, @Philip Glass . Without pen and paper, you can also google to an automated form that will give you the answer. To calculate recoil, you just need to know Velocity, Grains of Powder, Bullet Weight, and Weapon Weight. That’s it.

 

[Philip Glass]

Recoil is a formula, @Philip Glass . Without pen and paper, you can also google to an automated form that will give you the answer. To calculate recoil, you just need to know Velocity, Grains of Powder, Bullet Weight, and Weapon Weight. That’s it.

Interesting. I wonder if there ever was a physical way to measure it as well. I guess someone at some point did and then proved the formula.
Thanks,
Philip