I need a "Use Enough Gun" Gun. Suggestions?

[Tex .416]

Red Leg, Thank you for posting.

I see that we both have strong opinions about the 375 for cape buffalo.
The majority of buffalo hunter and those who want to hunt buffalo will agree with you. ( Some may not go along with a couple of your comments above.)

The .375 the most popular cape buffalo cartridge in the world.
A few of us want something bigger.

By the way, I too have killed 4 cape Buffalo bulls with one 375 HH shot. One went down right where I shot him, one went about 15 yds and two went 30 yds or less. I used North Fork 300 grain Cup Point Solids.

As someone posted above the .375 works well until it doesn't. Brian

In one of Kevin Thomas’ earlier books, he commented about .375 being adequate. In one of his later books, he changed his mind and thought it marginal and a step up was prudent. At one point, he culled buff with a .308, so he certainly was capable of dropping them with the tool at hand.

 

[TOBY458]

There you go with the logic again. Love it. To take it one step further...for those who don't like to carry a bit more weight in the rifle, how about taking a few pounds off your frame and adding one to the rifle? Win/win.

Hey now! Can’t a fella like lightweight rifles AND pie?

 

[Green Chile]

Of course...and your guns always seem to be in the kitchen.

 

[TOBY458]

Of course...and your guns always seem to be in the kitchen.

And headed to your address at times. Lol!

 

[Green Chile]

Isn't that the truth...but never with a piece of pie! I feel cheated.

 

[Brian]

Toby458,

Well said. I love light weight rifles too. I have a few TC Encore barrels.
One is a MGM 50-110 Winchester barrel that I load to just south of 500 NE. ( 410 grain CEB Raptor at 2,100 fps ) I put a my own "tank" muzzle brake on it. Kinda' ugly but it is nice and easy to shoot and it really rolls up cape buffalo.

I like apple pie! Brian

 

[TOBY458]

Red Leg, Thank you for posting.

I see that we both have strong opinions about the 375 for cape buffalo.
The majority of buffalo hunter and those who want to hunt buffalo will agree with you. ( Some may not go along with a couple of your comments above.)

The .375 the most popular cape buffalo cartridge in the world.
A few of us want something bigger.

By the way, I too have killed 4 cape Buffalo bulls with one 375 HH shot. One went down right where I shot him, one went about 15 yds and two went 30 yds or less. I used North Fork 300 grain Cup Point Solids.

As someone posted above the .375 HH "is popular 'til something goes wrong." Brian

Hello Brian

What kind of penetration did you get with the NF 375 cup point solids? Did you find that they did enough damage to warrant using them instead of a good soft point? I’m sure they offer more penetration than a Swift or even a TSX, but how does the wound channel compare?

Having taken 8 buffalo and a couple of elephants with calibers 375, 416, 458 and 470, I’ve always found that shot placement and bullet selection is obviously the most important thing. When I’ve done my part, irrespective of caliber, the result has always been the same. A dead animal.

The cool thing is, all calibers and rifles are interesting and if you like hunting with a 375 or a 577, they’ll both do their job if you do yours. The way I kind of look at it, the 375/416 works great for buffalo, and can also stand in for PG pretty well. Whereas the 458 and above are more specialized calibers for buffalo and elephant hunts in thick cover. I do like the versatility of the 375 over all other calibers, but when I was walking up on my bull elephant with my 458 WM this past April, I don’t think any rifle would have felt big enough.

 

[Azklmsr]

So summarize what I’ve read today:

1) 375 is completely adequate for Buff and Elephant
2) don’t need the added power of a 375 Weatherby
3) a 375 is marginal for Buff and Elephant
4) 416 is a better choice
5) a 458 would be even better
6) a 404 is awesome
7) a 404 is difficult to feed

lol.

So….

I’m sticking with my 375 for now and my adorable wife bought me a 416 this afternoon!
Best of all worlds!

Bryan,

I’ll be bringing the 375 for the 2026 hunt for now (along with 30-06), but I still want your instruction on the 416! Pam’s coming along. Help me convince her to shoot a Kudo!

416 definitely for the 2027 Elephant hunt

 

[Green Chile]

Yea my man…I am the great enabler. Kudu are easy….watch me talk her into a sable! You can shoot it with my 416. We have much to talk about my young padawan.

 

[TOBY458]

So summarize what I’ve read today:

1) 375 is completely adequate for Buff and Elephant
2) don’t need the added power of a 375 Weatherby
3) a 375 is marginal for Buff and Elephant
4) 416 is a better choice
5) a 458 would be even better
6) a 404 is awesome
7) a 404 is difficult to feed

lol.

So….

I’m sticking with my 375 for now and my adorable wife bought me a 416 this afternoon!
Best of all worlds!

Bryan,

I’ll be bringing the 375 for the 2026 hunt for now (along with 30-06), but I still want your instruction on the 416! Pam’s coming along. Help me convince her to shoot a Kudo!

416 definitely for the 2027 Elephant hunt

Just make sure you buy a 458 for 2028. And a 470 will be fine for 2029.

 

[Red Leg]

Red Leg, Thank you for posting.

I see that we both have strong opinions about the 375 for cape buffalo.
The majority of buffalo hunter and those who want to hunt buffalo will agree with you. ( Some may not go along with a couple of your comments above.)

The .375 the most popular cape buffalo cartridge in the world.
A few of us want something bigger.

By the way, I too have killed 4 cape Buffalo bulls with one 375 HH shot. One went down right where I shot him, one went about 15 yds and two went 30 yds or less. I used North Fork 300 grain Cup Point Solids.

As someone posted above the .375 HH "is popular 'til something goes wrong." Brian

I haven't used the Norfolk solid, but I have used the Woodleigh Hydro (much the same thing) fairly extensively for bear in North America and assorted game in Africa. I concluded it is a great round for braining an elephant or for drilling duiker, suni, or any other of the tiny ten. For buffalo, or much of anything else, I had somewhat different results. I found solids, even cup points, a good way to kill slowly. I much prefer a quality SP like a Swift A Frame.

Considering your remarkable record with .375 solids, with what were you shooting buffalo that resulted in these charges?

I own two rifles in .404, a 500/416, a .450, and a .470. I shoot them all extremely well. I much prefer the .375 because it is both the most versatile option in Africa and the most precise tool for my job as the client. Were I a PH, I would be carrying a rifle appropriate for his job.

It is the choice between rapier and broadsword. Both are equally lethal the right hands.

 

[Brian]

Toby458, Excellent penetration but I found the .375 to be too small diameter for solids fo any kind. I have used solids in .500 and . 577NE for buffalo and like them. Must be a wide flat Meplat of about 67% bullet diameter and shaped like the CEB Safari Solid designed by Micheal458. With a 375 I choose a CEB Raptor or a NF Expanding. But as iIsay I am not into 375 anymore.

 

[375Fox]

My rant on buffalo cartridges.

I know that I sound like a broken record, however I have found that the 375 with the best bullets is a poor and dangerous cape buffalo killer.

Yes, most hunters and PH's say that the the 375 is "Good enough" to "Perfect." My opinion is that people like the 375 because they are afraid of the recoil of proper buffalo rifle like the .416, .458, .470 and .500.

Much of the fuss over recoil is mental. The fact is that most any man or woman can learn to shoot the 500 NE accurately and enjoy it, ask my 135 pound wife. ( Ok, she weighed that when she used to hunt, It's a bit more now.)

Lots of men and women enjoy shooting 25 - 50 rounds of heavy 12 gauge goose loads when the geese are coming in on a cold morning. A heavy goose load in a light shotgun kicks more than regular weight 357HH.

Why are hunters afraid to fire a couple of rounds from a 458 WM when their adrenalin is flowing in a close encounter with a deadly cape buffalo? I don't get it.

I know the 375 fans will jump up and down and say "I use the 375 for cape buffalo because it works well, not because I am afraid of the recoil of a big bore." Yeah right! I believe you.

Look at it this way:

1. A wounded cape buffalo can be dangerous.
2. What is the recommended shooting distance when you are taking your first shot on a cape buffalo?
3. How far does a cape buffalo often run after he is hit in the shoulder with a .375 even with a good bullet, which most people don't use as they would rather hunt buffalo with cheap/poor bullet like a Hornady?

I have hunted cape buffalo with .375 HH, .50-110 Winchester and .577 NE. I have been involved in three buffalo charges, one of them was a buffalo that I personally shot poorly. Yes, I have strong opinions on this subject.

Also, what is all this nonsense about shooting 10-20 rounds off the bench with a cape buffalo rifle in one session. What is that for? Do you actually hunt cape buffalo with a bench rest?

Big bores hurt when fired off the bench and cause people to develop a flinch. ( A flinch is not helpful when you are shooting a cape buffalo.) The bench shooting of big bores is for load development and sighting in, that just takes a few rounds and here is some ways to make it easier.
- Place a big pad/weight between the butt pad and your shoulder. (Don't use a led sled they tend to
crack stocks and/or pound the recoil lug into the stock damaging it.)
- Use a standing type bench rest or set enough blocks under your rifle rest to raise the rifle rest high
above the bench. This enables you to sit upright at the bench, reducing the felt recoil. It really does
help.

Once you have a decent load developed and sighted in, do all of your practicing off of shooting sticks.
I like to practice off the sticks with a .22 mostly or dry firing indoors at home. ( Big bores cost too much for me to shoot paper with. That's just me.)

Of course I don't make any friends when I do my "Famous .375 rant". .....oh well. I think that am justified, the 375 cartridge has been known to get cape buffalo hunters in trouble including injured or dead which would ruin the whole day.

I think what bothers me most about this is saying recoil of big bores is mental when it’s so easily disproven with a recoil calculator. You can plug your own numbers in as you like in any recoil calculator with a google search. 416 and 458 are generally 1.5x-2x the recoil of 375s. I have not seen 11-12 lb bolt guns to reduce the recoil most are only around 9+ lbs. You are right that a shotgun has considerable recoil on paper. However, you are also ignoring shotgun recoil has a considerably slower recoil velocity and is spread out typically with semi auto action and recoil reducers in the stock. Everyone has their theory but there are a few cracks in the justification of this one. It also ignores recoil recovery time that I’d put a value on.

375 H&H

416 Rigby

458 win

450 Rigby

 

[Brian]

You are right, recoil is straight physics.

The way that each shooter deals with the recoil is different.

For example, do you resist it or welcome it? We learn this in different ways, maybe through martial arts ( boxing) or maybe through mediation. (Welcoming it)

This is not new or esoteric knowledge. Anyone can learn to enjoy the recoil of a big bore if they want to. Same as how do you get rid of a flinch. It's much easier that some people think.

Handling recoil is mental thing, first thing that I suggest is forget about the science.
I have taught people how many times. Ask an accomplished magnum handgun shooter.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

So summarize what I’ve read today:

1) 375 is completely adequate for Buff and Elephant
2) don’t need the added power of a 375 Weatherby
3) a 375 is marginal for Buff and Elephant
4) 416 is a better choice
5) a 458 would be even better
6) a 404 is awesome
7) a 404 is difficult to feed

lol.

So….

I’m sticking with my 375 for now and my adorable wife bought me a 416 this afternoon!
Best of all worlds!

Bryan,

I’ll be bringing the 375 for the 2026 hunt for now (along with 30-06), but I still want your instruction on the 416! Pam’s coming along. Help me convince her to shoot a Kudo!

416 definitely for the 2027 Elephant hunt

I built my 404 on a standard length Czech Mauser and it cycles slick and flawlessly 100%. A while back I posted a video of me cycling a full magazine and another of me snapping over on cartridges dropped in the chamber. Never fails.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Howdy Gents/Ladies,

I'm set for my 1st safari next June. Dieter Prinsloo at Mattanjasafaris has graciously agreed to teach me to hunt DG along with a few others in Limpopo next year, placing him in same courageous as the fellow that taught me to fly some 15 years ago. I'm pursuing a Buff and some plains game and will likely get talked into a hippo. I've picked up a 375 H&H in a Model 70 that is shooting 1-hole groups for me with heavy loads.

Dieter is working with me to plan a 2027 Zim hunt for Trophy Elephant, Buff, and a Leopard. While he as assured me the 375 will do the job, I'm considering a power upgrade and would love experienced input. On my list are pushing the 375 to 375 WBY. I cannot find a person that has actually done that that speaks negatively. Plenty that speculate, but none with experience. Next on the list would be a 416. I really like both the Ruger and CZ in 416 Rigby. Terrific classic. A 416 Rem on a model 70 makes more sense of course. If brass were available, the 416 Ruger would be in the discussion mix. I do not shoot factory rounds in any of my guns. Any experience with 416 vs 458 win performance on Elephant? love to hear real world experiences. Same with 375 WBY.

I'm not generally recoil sensitive with 20 round bench sessions with the 375 being a norm. That said, I don't want to go too big and become the guy that flinches.

Looking forward to thoughts and thanks for the input

Kurt

dont do a 375 wby, your ph will no longer like you and u will have no friends at the range
375HH kills more dang game every year than any other calibre

 

[Luvthunt]

The 375 will do all that is needed if you do what is needed.

 

[HankBuck]

I’d recommend you try a 416 or 458 before you buy. I have no problem shooting a 375 H&H but 416 and 458 are really stepping into another recoil class to me, but also a different cartridge class for big game. 375 H&H to 375 Weatherby isn’t adding any value. 416 or 458 is for elephant if you can handle the recoil. Even though you said you don’t shoot factory rounds in your rifles you don’t know what situation may come up. Taking standard cartridges to Africa gives you a lot of flexibility if something were to happen to your ammo.

@375Fox - I Agree with you, if someone wants a significant increase in power - then increase bullet diameter & weight as well (get your money’s worth!!)….get into the .40 cal range and pick out something you can still handle and shoot accurately (accuracy is Always most important). I like the .375 H&H a lot and so have the PHs that I’ve spoken to - even for Elephant. I know I can handle a .375 and remain accurate so, for Me, that’s what I’d stick with.

 

[Beck]

I would give serious consideration to a .450 Rigby or a .458 lott if you can handle the recoil.

 

[9Point3]

Toby458,

Well said. I love light weight rifles too. I have a few TC Encore barrels.
One is a MGM 50-110 Winchester barrel that I load to just south of 500 NE. ( 410 grain CEB Raptor at 2,100 fps ) I put a my own "tank" muzzle brake on it. Kinda' ugly but it is nice and easy to shoot and it really rolls up cape buffalo.

I like apple pie! Brian

I have a few TC Encore barrels. MGM is looking at my 375 Flanged reamer print to cut a chamber for me now.

When I popped the TC 300WM barrel open on my first safari my PH thought my gun broke. He looked at me in surprise until I shoved another bullet in and cocked the hammer.