Hunting SA or "Wild" Africa - Which is Better

[BenKK]

My opinion, which is worth nothing: If you stalk your impala properly in South Africa you are ahead of the bloke who shoots his lesser kudu from or by the vehicle in Tanzania in terms of experience. If you’re in a position to properly hunt in a remote area, that is absolutely awesome!

 

[Red Leg]

I'm going to disagree with you here, and offer a different perspective.

There are distinct advantages to hunting with the same outfitter or PH on more than one safari especially when Africa is the destination. There are many African outfitters, including the one which I have the privilege of representing, who offer hunting opportunities for plainsgame and dangerous game in multiple RSA provinces as well as several other African countries.

Whether our client is on their first plainsgame safari or their 10th safari hunting dangerous game in Mozambique, we work extremely hard to go above and beyond for our clients at every opportunity with the goal of providing them with a very specialized, personal, and unique overall hunting experience. When this is the approach, most of our clients develop a level of confidence, comfort, and trust that they may not have otherwise received with another outfitter. These clients now know exactly what they can expect from us, and what any family members or guests they bring in the future can expect. With that in mind, the prospect of hunting with us again is very appealing and advantageous for a number of reasons.

The majority of our clientele are repeat guests, and it is for this very reason that we have camps established in several different provinces of South Africa where we can offer our clients new and exciting opportunities at a multitude of different species in their native habitats. Furthermore, we have established long-standing relationships and partnerships that allow us to personally host our clients on safari in several different African countries. Our repeat clients can enjoy almost any type of adventure in pursuit of most any African species all why experiencing the peace of mind, familiarity, and comradery in hunting various destinations in Africa with an outfitter/PH that they know and trust.

Speaking from my own personal experiences, I had visited and hunted Africa a few times with different outfitters before hunting with Limcroma with the main reason being that it has always been my goal to visit as many different African destinations offering as many different species and experiences as possible. It was not until I found Limcroma and discovered how uniquely different of a business model they offer, that I even considered hunting with the same outfitter on future occasions. Suffice to say, after 6 consecutive safaris with them, I have hunted in most of the provinces of RSA and 4 different African countries. Our plan is to make it 5 or possibly 6 different countries next time over!

Although it is ultimately each individual hunter's prerogative, the notion that anyone who chooses to hunt with the same outfitter on more than one occasion is denying themselves the broader experiences is not necessarily true. When you find the right outfitter with whom you have established a rapport, and who treat you like family, capable of offering the logistics, I believe that offers the client a distinct advantage that is likely to provide a far better and more consistent experience.

You make a very valid point, and I should have been more clear. There are indeed outfitters based within SA who either have concessions or have quota on concessions beyond the traditional game ranches of South Africa.

The repeat client to whom I refer is like an acquaintance here in this area. He has been to Africa three times and always to the same lodge. He has pretty much taken their game list to include all the multi-hued fantasy species. He recently made a comment that he had nothing else to hunt. His game room is quite impressive.

My only point is that there is a huge difference between a collection of game animals and a collection of experiences.

 

[PhotoCollector73]

This has been a fun thread...........more heat than light, however. Those of you that have found a way to hunt "wild Africa"........say, across the Turkwell River in 1890 or North of the Orange in 1810, I salute you. The rest of us hunt animals that know damn well that they are in competition with 1.4 billion humans, be it RSA or elsewhere. Sit in the eve after a day in the bush, swill G&T, ice from a cooler clinking, bakkie popping as it cools, and tell yourself that you have found the real, wild Africa. If you're not sure that you are in the right place, check on your tablet.....you'll probably have WIFI...most hunters demand it.......FWB

I honestly find this talking point to be quite tiring. Yes, Africa is experiencing a human population explosion in much of the continent, but to say that it's universal is laughable. If you're seriously saying that RSA is overpopulated... just LOL. A country the size of the UK, France, and Germany combined and with a smaller human population than each of those individually is far from overpopulated. Predictions for where our population will be at the end of the century only puts us in the high 70 millions.

 

[Philip Glass]

There is always an attempt to present South Africa as more wild than it is including your post. There are a few very large well managed reserves and some hunting along Kruger park boundary, not many as you describe. This hunting would compare to any unfenced hunting anywhere else in Africa, but it’s the exception in South Africa not the rule. Most South African hunting properties are 3000-15000 acres and are heavily managed, very different experience to wild concession areas. Present it for what it is accurately, shouldn’t be difficult for someone who claims to be a highly experienced PH and hunted thousands of dangerous game animals seemingly everywhere in Africa (without any photos).

There are very few "concessions" in RSA. I hate that this term is misused to make things seem wilder Or bigger. Most of RSA is private land. Game farms. Which is great and I love to hunt all of it!

 

[Gerry Addison]

Hunted Niassa in 2016.................Govt officials, poaching, motorbikes, kids herding goats, villagers milling about. It was still fun, but............Africa has 1.4 billion people.....and 11.7 million sq miles of land for a pop. density of 117 per. (The State that I live in has a density of 17). Be cautious of those who tell you that unfenced is the REAL Africa. There are a lot of people on this planet. My hunt in Damara Land on 1.5 million acres turned out to be 5000 acres accessible, with the usual Govt Concession officials shooting, driving, cute kids waiting for school, and goat herds. We'd all like to hunt the Africa of 1880, but it doesn't exist. Do your homework. Fences work both ways............good hunting.............FWB

You have said exactly what I was getting at. A large fenced area if properly run seems more wild to me than areas with people walking to school as you are stalking an animal.

 

[Vintageguy]

I’m a bit lost on all the apple and oranges comparisons honestly and what some regard as wilderness. It’s not wilderness if you’re watching a herd of goats go by in one direction while two guys on a motorbike are coming the other way. From what I see there are truly wilderness areas, then there are free range areas where you are basically hunting amongst a community of people with all the clutter that goes with that, then there’s large fenced and managed areas, and smaller put and take operations. You don’t have to travel to get a good idea what they’re like either it only takes some research and some time on YouTube to see numerous examples of all of these along with the different methods used to hunt. Those methods can be good or bad too anywhere. I recently exited one video early of a wilderness buffalo hunt when the “hunter” popped his buffalo from the road with his rifle resting on the top of the truck’s cab. Great location but a method not worthy of a buffalo. I doubt the story gets told that way though. That dude may be on AH somewhere right now ragging on about how you haven’t hunted dangerous game unless you did it where he did…he just leaves off the part of standing in the bed of the truck.
As far as an outfitter of a large fenced operation wanting premiums for extraordinary trophies or not allowing a shot on an extraordinary animal because it’s still breeding…,that’s sound management and they really must have a good idea of what they have around if they’re to manage it effectively, provide a quality experience, and stay in business. I actually saw the buffalo bull mentioned in a previous post while hunting with that outfitter. I saw him late in the evening as he hauled ass across the road about 200 yards ahead disappearing into the thorns and that was it. If he was a pet someone forgot to tell him that. He was out of my price range but even if not, could I have got him with the method we used, tracking? Maybe, but we would’ve had to search out a big track at the nearest waterhole the next morning and follow it just as we did every other morning and it would’ve been pure luck if he’d been the one at the end of it. Could I have got him by another method, such as sitting at the water all day or putting out feed, sure, probably. But the experience is the focus so the method is as important as the location.
While there I saw numerous “pick ups” of various different species of animals that any hunter would’ve been proud of that had died of causes other than a bullet. Not indicative of a livestock operation either since each could be viewed as lost revenue. We were also the only humans there but not the only hunters as we found a couple different leopard kills. The PH commented after we saw a group of young kudu bulls that “no one owns a kudu bull, they go where they like”. I never saw them again either. Another huge kudu bull I would’ve taken vanished after the first and only sighting.
Hunts like the ones described by many here that are in communal areas are nothing that interest me in the least. They seem akin to me taking someone visiting around to various woodlots deer hunting here. That’s still hunting but not the experience I want to travel halfway around the world to do but to each their own. Another thing is, that game animal being pursued may be wild and unfenced but if they are used to people you can bet they’re patterned as sure as any whitetail at a feeder. That’s just scouting, although you may not have been privy to the conversation with the local or participated in the scouting. It’s naive to think after riding an hour and being sat just 30 minutes that your PH just randomly picked the right gully on the right farm at the right time of day to bushwhack that kudu as he passed through.
I hope to do a truly wilderness safari one day but until I do well managed fenced ground of good size operated by people intent on providing the best experience possible are the closest to wilderness out there in my opinion and I’m thankful they exist.

 

[PhotoCollector73]

Kalahari Oryx Private Game Reserve. A huge lion is spotted on an opposite sand dune while the guys are hunting gemsbok, and later on one of them steps in rhino dung while stalking said gemsbok. Near the end of the video, a black rhino spoor is found on top of a mountain while they're scouting for zebra. This type of 'wilderness' experience does exist here, but again, you just need to know where to find it.

 

[Rickmt]

Some folks are more sophisticated than others and spend regularly on fine wines and expensive spirits. As they sample the best they often seek more of the same and search out other rare beverage experiences.
Some folks don’t partake at all in any beverages except water to replenish their fluids. That’s the least expensive route.
Some folks like to have a cold beer every now and then . They are really not interested in what the other guy is drinking .
Choose for yourself and have a great time doing it !

 

[PhotoCollector73]

Some folks are more sophisticated than others and spend regularly on fine wines and expensive spirits. As they sample the best they often seek more of the same and search out other rare beverage experiences.
Some folks don’t partake at all in any beverages except water to replenish their fluids. That’s the least expensive route.
Some folks like to have a cold beer every now and then . They are really not interested in what the other guy is drinking .
Choose for yourself and have a great time doing it !

Sorry, but I personally prefer my water to be completely wild and free-ranging, and I don't mean sourced from the wild, I mean I like to actually trek through mountains and find natural springs then drink from it just using my mouth (because using your hands isn't sporty). Don't tell me you haven't drunk water till you've done this, pleb.

 

[lhook7]

I’ve never been able to convince myself to hunt behind a high fence in Africa. I’ve done it a couple of times in Texas, one hunt was very challenging and done unguided on foot, the other was just a shoot, not a hunt.

 

[375Fox]

I’m a bit lost on all the apple and oranges comparisons honestly and what some regard as wilderness. It’s not wilderness if you’re watching a herd of goats go by in one direction while two guys on a motorbike are coming the other way. From what I see there are truly wilderness areas, then there are free range areas where you are basically hunting amongst a community of people with all the clutter that goes with that, then there’s large fenced and managed areas, and smaller put and take operations. You don’t have to travel to get a good idea what they’re like either it only takes some research and some time on YouTube to see numerous examples of all of these along with the different methods used to hunt. Those methods can be good or bad too anywhere. I recently exited one video early of a wilderness buffalo hunt when the “hunter” popped his buffalo from the road with his rifle resting on the top of the truck’s cab. Great location but a method not worthy of a buffalo. I doubt the story gets told that way though. That dude may be on AH somewhere right now ragging on about how you haven’t hunted dangerous game unless you did it where he did…he just leaves off the part of standing in the bed of the truck.
As far as an outfitter of a large fenced operation wanting premiums for extraordinary trophies or not allowing a shot on an extraordinary animal because it’s still breeding…,that’s sound management and they really must have a good idea of what they have around if they’re to manage it effectively, provide a quality experience, and stay in business. I actually saw the buffalo bull mentioned in a previous post while hunting with that outfitter. I saw him late in the evening as he hauled ass across the road about 200 yards ahead disappearing into the thorns and that was it. If he was a pet someone forgot to tell him that. He was out of my price range but even if not, could I have got him with the method we used, tracking? Maybe, but we would’ve had to search out a big track at the nearest waterhole the next morning and follow it just as we did every other morning and it would’ve been pure luck if he’d been the one at the end of it. Could I have got him by another method, such as sitting at the water all day or putting out feed, sure, probably. But the experience is the focus so the method is as important as the location.
While there I saw numerous “pick ups” of various different species of animals that any hunter would’ve been proud of that had died of causes other than a bullet. Not indicative of a livestock operation either since each could be viewed as lost revenue. We were also the only humans there but not the only hunters as we found a couple different leopard kills. The PH commented after we saw a group of young kudu bulls that “no one owns a kudu bull, they go where they like”. I never saw them again either. Another huge kudu bull I would’ve taken vanished after the first and only sighting.
Hunts like the ones described by many here that are in communal areas are nothing that interest me in the least. They seem akin to me taking someone visiting around to various woodlots deer hunting here. That’s still hunting but not the experience I want to travel halfway around the world to do but to each their own. Another thing is, that game animal being pursued may be wild and unfenced but if they are used to people you can bet they’re patterned as sure as any whitetail at a feeder. That’s just scouting, although you may not have been privy to the conversation with the local or participated in the scouting. It’s naive to think after riding an hour and being sat just 30 minutes that your PH just randomly picked the right gully on the right farm at the right time of day to bushwhack that kudu as he passed through.
I hope to do a truly wilderness safari one day but until I do well managed fenced ground of good size operated by people intent on providing the best experience possible are the closest to wilderness out there in my opinion and I’m thankful they exist.

I can actually agree with quite a bit of what you wrote. Too many people don’t consider other options. YouTube can give you a good idea of what you’ll experience but it hides a lot too. I have hunted in multiple community areas. One misconception I’d say you do have a predictability of the animals. I’ve hunted the same concession two years in a row. The first year we never saw a trophy kudu bull. The second year I took two and saw 50”+ kudu daily. The biggest difference the separates communal areas in Africa from your local deer hunting is poaching pressure and food resources. A local might be able to tell a PH where a big croc or hippo hangs out on river but the other game moves with food. They might be in area on a given week and they may not. The poaching pressure in communal areas is high as well. If a local sees a kudu in the same spot every day it’s a matter of time until his friends come with dogs (at least in Southern Africa). I’ve shot dogs hunting in communal areas while they were being used to poach. It’s not nearly as controlled as local deer hunting. I’ve seen where the poaching is too high it’s upsetting but most good areas have effective anti-poaching in place. I like the amount of variables that go into a successful hunt in community or safari areas.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Happiness is a personal choice. You are the only one that can decide whether you are happy or not. Pick a good outfitter/PH and it will not matter how wild, secure, fenced, remote, etc. the area happens to be. Go where you like and enjoy your hunt!

Safe hunting

 

[375Fox]

I’ve never been able to convince myself to hunt behind a high fence in Africa. I’ve done it a couple of times in Texas, one hunt was very challenging and done unguided on foot, the other was just a shoot, not a hunt.

I’m critical of high fences. I’ve seen them used improperly in Africa but I’ve also seen them used to protect and better what’s inside the fence. I wouldn’t pay to hunt behind a high fence in Texas, almost without exception. However, there are a lot of properties in South Africa and Namibia the fence is used to restore a more natural ecosystem and protect it. Where in Texas it seems almost exclusively for huge genetics or exotics. I’ll look for properties managed on quotas and without color variants or unnatural trophies, but high fence in Southern Africa can be a very good experience on the right properties with right outfitters.

 

[Rickmt]

It is all hunting and enjoyable either way for me. I hunt 16000 acres high fence in South Texas, that equals about 25 square miles. Most folks could not hike across that much land and good luck finding one animal in that cactus thorn nasty country. That ranch is highly managed, flown for deer surveys and cameras all over and every year deer are taken that have never been seen before or on camera a few times and never seen again.

Pleb! I had to look that one up !

 

[BSO Dave]

Nope, it’s not far less expensive over all, especially if you do your homework.

Can you please share an example of your homework? If you have done the hunt and the actual cost differences were minimal even after the last of your trophies arrived back in the USA, I think many of us here would very much appreciate getting that information. The total cost comparison I am referring to is the most commonly sought after African experience for the average hunter(s) which is a 7-10 day plainsgame hunt in RSA for 1 hunter with 4-7 trophy animals on his wishlist compared to that same hunt pretty much anywhere outside of the RSA with the possible exception of Namibia.

I am honestly not trying to be argumentative with you, but, not only have I done the homework, I have done the trips a few times over. (My apologies but no photos will be provided for proof)....The cost of the daily rates alone in Mozambique or Tanzania for example, exceeded the total package cost inclusive of airfare compared to the first couple of RSA hunts that I have done. Then, add in a spouse, a non-hunting guest, or a couple for kids and your cost differences expand exponentially. Unfortunately, to that point, a family safari in "wild Africa" then becomes out of reach for the average working class American family.

With that being said, in no way am I implying the experiences between all the various African options are the same.. I have enjoyed immensely every single safari I have ever been on regardless of the destination in Africa. Each experience was unique with its own pros & cons. However, if we are comparing the true costs, start to finish, apples to apples between these destinations, the total cost not just less, but significantly less in RSA in my experiences.

 

[BSO Dave]

Need to point out that many of us that hunt "wild Africa" are not rich. For DG, Zimbabwe prices are very reasonable.

I need to point out that "rich" is a very subjective term, and your claim that you don't need to be "rich" to hunt dangerous game in Zimbabwe shows that you are indeed subjectively out of touch with the vast majority of folks who go, or aspire to go on an African safari.. For the vast majority that actually do go, it will be a once in a lifetime trip that they likely had to save for years to afford. This is especially true if they went as a couple or family.

I love the wealth of information shared on this forum and there are some very knowledgeable and experienced folks here that are eager to offer valuable advice.. Others, not so much.. But, the reality of it is that the majority of members who are regular contributors here are not representative of the vast majority of those who actually go or aspire to go on safari. Using this thread as an example, almost everyone who has chimed in has been to Africa on multiple occasions. Point being, if you have been to Africa and hunted dangerous game more than once, you are vastly "richer" in relative terms than 95% of the folks that do go.. And, the fact that they got to go at all was possible because a more affordable and realistic safari option like those in RSA or Namibia were available to them.

 

[375Fox]

Can you please share an example of your homework? If you have done the hunt and the actual cost differences were minimal even after the last of your trophies arrived back in the USA, I think many of us here would very much appreciate getting that information. The total cost comparison I am referring to is the most commonly sought after African experience for the average hunter(s) which is a 7-10 day plainsgame hunt in RSA for 1 hunter with 4-7 trophy animals on his wishlist compared to that same hunt pretty much anywhere outside of the RSA with the possible exception of Namibia.

I am honestly not trying to be argumentative with you, but, not only have I done the homework, I have done the trips a few times over. (My apologies but no photos will be provided for proof)....The cost of the daily rates alone in Mozambique or Tanzania for example, exceeded the total package cost inclusive of airfare compared to the first couple of RSA hunts that I have done. Then, add in a spouse, a non-hunting guest, or a couple for kids and your cost differences expand exponentially. Unfortunately, to that point, a family safari in "wild Africa" then becomes out of reach for the average working class American family.

With that being said, in no way am I implying the experiences between all the various African options are the same.. I have enjoyed immensely every single safari I have ever been on regardless of the destination in Africa. Each experience was unique with its own pros & cons. However, if we are comparing the true costs, start to finish, apples to apples between these destinations, the total cost not just less, but significantly less in RSA in my experiences.

BSO Dave, I’d agree with you South Africa is generally much less expensive for standard plains game hunting and has provided a lot of opportunity for affordable hunting that wouldn’t otherwise exist. I think you decided long before you ever commented on this thread or others 2+2=Limcroma and 10+10=Limcroma. I don’t think there is any amount of math that might make you think differently. This is third nearly identical argument we’ve had with same individuals. I’ve searched all your posts and I can only find reference to South Africa and two outfitters. There are affordable hunting opportunities in what’s considered wild Africa including a deal right now posted on AH for less than $8k in Caprivi for kudu, zebra, wildebeest, several others. NW Namibia offers plains game pricing in one of the most wild areas I’ve ever hunted. There are end of season deals in other wild areas that would be considered affordable as well if a person really wanted to hunt an unfenced area outside of South Africa. If you only want to hunt with Limcroma. I’m sure they offer great hunting, but I’m certain your search and homework on other areas has stopped since you found them.

 

[375Fox]

I need to point out that "rich" is a very subjective term, and your claim that you don't need to be "rich" to hunt dangerous game in Zimbabwe shows that you are indeed subjectively out of touch with the vast majority of folks who go, or aspire to go on an African safari.. For the vast majority that actually do go, it will be a once in a lifetime trip that they likely had to save for years to afford. This is especially true if they went as a couple or family.

I love the wealth of information shared on this forum and there are some very knowledgeable and experienced folks here that are eager to offer valuable advice.. Others, not so much.. But, the reality of it is that the majority of members who are regular contributors here are not representative of the vast majority of those who actually go or aspire to go on safari. Using this thread as an example, almost everyone who has chimed in has been to Africa on multiple occasions. Point being, if you have been to Africa and hunted dangerous game more than once, you are vastly "richer" in relative terms than 95% of the folks that do go.. And, the fact that they got to go at all was possible because a more affordable and realistic safari option like those in RSA or Namibia were available to them.

Zimbabwe buffalo hunts generally run $12k-$15k some higher and some lower. Higher quality buffalo hunts in RSA generally start at $10k some lower again but many much higher depending on trophy and outfitter. If a person wants to hunt buffalo in a free ranging area it is affordable. A full bag safari including lion, elephant, etc is going to be out of range of most (including myself) but I don’t resent those who can. I’ll gladly look forward to their reports here.

 

[Tanks]

@BSO Dave First, I have always said for a family vacation or a hunter concentrating just on plains game RSA is a place I would recommend to people.

Secondly, in regard to DG hunting in Zim, there have been hunts, all in, for elephant, buffalo etc. posted on these very forums for about $10K. Albeit, they are not for trophy animals, but still a wild hunt. Do you consider a $10K hunt affordable only by the rich? The same people that complain about similar costs are driving $60K+ SUVs and trucks.

Also, people that do travel internationally and hunt are NOT your average Joe living paycheck to paycheck in order to pay bills. They have disposable income. Even RSA prices are not that inexpensive for someone struggling to pay bills.

 

[VertigoBE]

@BSO Dave , I would have to agree with @Tanks and @375Fox on the affordability of Zimbabwean DG hunts.

Now granted, anyone who can travel internationally and hunt anything, is likely to be in the upper 50% of median household income. So in that respect you could claim that you have to be 'rich' to go hunt DG in 'wild places'.

But I stand by my claim (and @Tanks and @375Fox) that anyone who can afford to go on a 7-day 7 species PG hunt in SA, also can afford (with perhaps a bit more saving) to hunt elephant in Zimbabwe. It might not be record book material, and perhaps you might not be able to bring the trophy back (if there is any) but it'll have a long nose and tower over you.