High end bolt vs low end double

[Bonk]

AI has summarized this entire thread perfectly:

Which is better for dangerous game hunting, a double rifle or a bolt action rifle?
For dangerous game hunting,
a double rifle offers the fastest second shot, while a bolt-action rifle provides more rounds and greater long-range accuracy. The better choice depends on the hunting scenario and a hunter's specific needs.

Double rifle: Speed and reliability in close quarters
The double rifle is a traditional favorite for dangerous game, especially for professional hunters working in thick bush where encounters are at very close range.
Advantages:

• Instant second shot: The primary advantage is the ability to fire a second aimed shot almost instantly by pulling the second trigger, without having to cycle an action. This is a critical, life-saving feature if your first shot fails to stop a charging animal.
• Ultimate reliability: Having two independent locks and firing pins means that if one barrel's system fails, the other is still functional. The simple break-open action is robust and less prone to jamming than a repeating action in adverse conditions.
• Superior handling: Double rifles are typically shorter and balance exceptionally well, allowing for quick, natural pointing at a fast-moving, close-range target.
• Powerful cartridges: Double rifles are chambered for massive, powerful cartridges, such as the .470 Nitro Express, that are highly effective at stopping large, dangerous animals.

Disadvantages:

• High cost: Quality double rifles are extremely expensive, with prices often in the tens of thousands of dollars.
• Limited capacity: They only hold two rounds, and reloading for a third shot is significantly slower than with a bolt-action rifle.
• Less accurate long-range: The barrels of a double rifle are regulated to shoot to the same point of impact at a specific, close distance (e.g., 60 yards). Past this distance, the point of impact from each barrel begins to diverge.
• Fickle with ammunition: Some double rifles are finicky about ammunition and may only shoot accurately with a specific load for which they were regulated.

Bolt-action rifle: Versatility and precision
For most hunters today, the bolt-action rifle is the more practical and versatile choice for dangerous game hunting.
Advantages:

• Superior accuracy: The rigid single barrel and bolt-action design make these rifles inherently more accurate over longer ranges compared to double rifles.
• Higher capacity: Bolt-action magazines typically hold three to five rounds, providing multiple follow-up shots before needing to reload.
• Broader cartridge selection: Bolt-actions are chambered for a wider variety of powerful, modern dangerous game cartridges, like the .375 H&H and .416 Rigby.
• Affordability: A high-quality bolt-action rifle is significantly less expensive than a comparable double rifle.
• Durability and reliability: Modern bolt-actions with controlled-round feeding are extremely reliable and rugged. If a malfunction occurs, it can often be cleared quickly.

Disadvantages:

• Slower second shot: A bolt-action's rate of fire is limited by how quickly the shooter can cycle the bolt, which is slower than a double rifle's instant second shot. In a charge, this can be a fatal delay.
• Potential for user error: Under extreme stress, a hunter can "short-stroke" the bolt, causing a malfunction.

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I’m an AI sceptic because IMO there’s no such thing as true AI. Whatever biases (intentional or unintentional) built into the algorithms influence the output. That said, that answer seems pretty complete and accurate to me based on my modest knowledge of the topic.

 

[Tanks]

I'm sure as a double gun fan you like to think it's the best choice in every situation and that's fine. It may be important to justify the extraordinary expense ... or not. Go ahead and convince yourself.

Actually, my belief is horses for the courses. Just like I would never run a horse that does well on grass on sand I would not run a double when trying for a red stag at 300+ yards in Argentina. I also would not try to make a 100-yard shot on a buffalo with a double either (though I practice at that distance). The whole point of a DG hunt is to getting closer. Longest distance I have shot a DG (buffalo) was 60 yards at most.

But sorry, I will never be convinced, all factors weighed, that a double rifle is inherently safer than a bolt action for hunting dangerous game. It's simply a matter of physical mechanics required to make the two styles operate under duress and the comparative potential for failure.

If you have a malfunction on a bolt, then you have an inoperable gun in your hand. On a double you have a second barrel with a second firing pin.

It is funny how these "discussions" turn into ad hominem attacks and assumptions about people's hat choices etc.. In regard to the cost you mentioned, one rule people cite is the 0.01% rule. If something is going to cost less than 0.01% of one's net worth, then there is no need to worry about the cost.

And yes, we do dress differently and have different social circles. That doesn't make one inferior or superior, just different. No need for class warfare.

 

[steve white]

If you can find a thread where I claimed Uncle Mike's swivels are the best, please provide the link. They are crap and I've never said otherwise. Only thread I can recall discussing my swivels was these recently acquired Titan brand and they are NOT Uncle Mike's! Bought them to REPLACE Uncle Mike's! Can't say the Titans are the best because I haven't owned them long enough (but they can't be worse than Uncle Mike's). Others who have more experience with them chimed in positively.
View attachment 715936
Oh yes. I did start a thread asking about experiences with flush mount swivels (considering them for fore end of rifles [to avoid studs hanging up in sticks or bench rest] and butt of my shotgun (regular studs get caught in my vest when mounting the gun). Don't recall getting much response from you or anyone else.

I don't profess to be the most widely experienced African hunter but I have had good experiences hunting South Africa that have met or exceeded the quality of my extensive hunting experiences in North America. And I am not easily pleased. I do not appreciate some self-pontificating types deprecating those experiences simply because I don't worship their "wild" experiences or their point of view re expensive guns/gear. I'm entightled to express my opinion and they are entitled to theirs, however right or wrong our perceptions might be. The same old "you don't have enough experience with hunting 'wild' Africa or ultra expensive guns/clothing/gear to have a valid opinion" wears very thin. I'm sure a thousand dollar 3X beaver felt safari hat serves the purpose for some high end hunters but probably no better than the equally nice looking $20 crushable wool hat I bought at a Oakhurst grocery store sixteen years ago (though I'd never wear it on safari). But sorry, I will never be convinced, all factors weighed, that a double rifle is inherently safer than a bolt action for hunting dangerous game. It's simply a matter of physical mechanics required to make the two styles operate under duress and the comparative potential for failure. I'm sure as a double gun fan you like to think it's the best choice in every situation and that's fine. It may be important to justify the extraordinary expense ... or not. Go ahead and convince yourself. That's your right. But don't go throwing punches with low jabs like "you don't own one so you don't know" or "you don't hunt 'wild' Africa so your opinion isn't valid." I can see how a double rifle works ... and doesn't work. I have been hunting for more than sixty years almost entirely solo and in some very wild places. My guided hunt experience in those decades, outside of four safaris, was limited to one late fill-in with a group hunt for geese in Saskatchewan (very unsatisfactory). I'm not sure my limited experience with guided hunts really matters. Don't see why it should. Mechanics are mechanics. Is what it is. And in those sixty years I have survived some, indeed many, hair-raising dangerous situations: going through the ice, charged by animals (three times), extremely close encounters with grizzlies (almost daily at one job), lost in an unexpected blizzard, end over end on a horse falling down a mountain, and the first episode in 1971, essentially succumbing to hypothermia. All but most of the grizzly encounters were solo adventures. A guided dangeros game hunt in "wild" Africa seems to pale in comparison for "dangerous" factor. In my opinion anyway.

Sometimes you have something to say. Sometimes you are a boor, looking down your nose as anything done up more finely than you are accustomed to. Please don't invite the "ignore" button as it should be unnecessary.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Actually, my belief is horses for the courses. Just like I would never run a horse that does well on grass on sand I would not run a double when trying for a red stag at 300+ yards in Argentina. I also would not try to make a 100-yard shot on a buffalo with a double either (though I practice at that distance). The whole point of a DG hunt is to getting closer. Longest distance I have shot a DG (buffalo) was 60 yards at most.

If you have a malfunction on a bolt, then you have an inoperable gun in your hand. On a double you have a second barrel with a second firing pin.

It is funny how these "discussions" turn into ad hominem attacks and assumptions about people's hat choices etc.. In regard to the cost you mentioned, one rule people cite is the 0.01% rule. If something is going to cost less than 0.01% of one's net worth, then there is no need to worry about the cost.

And yes, we do dress differently and have different social circles. That doesn't make one inferior or superior, just different. No need for class warfare.

View attachment 715937

Malfunctioning bolt or dropping ammo while trying to shove followup rounds into a double rifle as I dodge a charging beast? Both are maybe tinfoil hat scenarios but I think in the unlikely event a big black bucket of shit hits the fan, I'd trust a 98 Mauser's bolt functioning properly over my arthritic fingers. No contest there.

Somehow you always try to make the "different circles" superiority arguement work re "game farm" vs "wild" hunting and then turn around and point the finger at me.

As far as your different social circles, you made it very clear in another thread why we travel differently in that regard. I admit to one failed marriage. Only four years with that philandering phony. I understand she's now on husband #5, or working on it. And with lots of extracurricular activity in between. Good riddance ... but turned out not so good for our daughter unfortunately. For her sake I hung in there as long as I could but when I found her mom shacked up with two guys at once (and daughter in the next room), that was the end of the line. It was several years before I remarried a gal nine years younger when I was pushing forty. We almost made it to 25th. But fifteen years ago I lost her to a vehicle accident ... ten months after our 14 year-old son died during the night from epileptic seizure. Never remarried. I just couldn't risk any more heartache. But you brag on here about trading in your spouses/ladies for something younger ... or rather you quoted your dad for praising your ability to do so. Presumably he was not exaggerating. Yeah, we do travel "differently." And no regrets on my part. Maybe I'm just too sensitive to put all that tragedy behind me ... or throw others under the bus like my ex. Being sensitive is a character flaw I can live with. Sets a good example for the next generations.

My partner and evening attire

 

[rbutcher]

lol what? When did this turn into a marriage thread?

 

[Tanks]

And yes, we do dress differently and have different social circles. That doesn't make one inferior or superior, just different. No need for class warfare.

Somehow you always try to make the "different circles" superiority arguement work re "game farm" vs "wild" hunting and then turn around and point the finger at me.

See above statement. I am not saying different circles are superior. Also, my original comment regarding DG hunting on RSA game farms that you took umbrage upon was not addressed to you at all. I think the same for all DG hunting at RSA especially CBL lion hunts.

Methinks, you protest too much.

But, maybe it is because you are a SNAG (Sensitive, New Age Guy)

 

[Ontario Hunter]

See above statement. I am not saying different circles are superior. Also, my original comment regarding DG hunting on RSA game farms that you took umbrage upon was not addressed to you at all. I think the same for all DG hunting at RSA especially CBL lion hunts.

Methinks, you protest too much.

But, maybe it is because you are a SNAG (Sensitive, New Age Guy)

Well, of course it wasn't directed at me.

A New Age Guy? At age 73? Never thought of myself that way. Interesting. I promise to try being more insensitive.

 

[ftrovato]

Flavor of the day: If the challenge is to get close AND if it's big and can run me down....double. ;-)

 

[Tanks]

But you brag on here about trading in your spouses/ladies for something younger ... or rather you quoted your dad for praising your ability to do so. Presumably he was not exaggerating.

Well, not only younger but also having common sense. Here is a t-shirt she wears.

 

[analog_peninsula]

I’m an AI sceptic because IMO there’s no such thing as true AI. Whatever biases (intentional or unintentional) built into the algorithms influence the output. That said, that answer seems pretty complete and accurate to me based on my modest knowledge of the topic.

What AI does is provide a consensus summary of conventional wisdom. Sometimes that’s appropriate, sometimes it’s not. That’s all it really does.

 

[Scott CWO]

Here is a video of an elephant charge where the client puts it down with the second shot while the PH is still cycling the bolt.

Hmm, not what I saw. The elephant is already dropping after the PH shot.

 

[BJH65]

Hmm, not what I saw. The elephant is already dropping after the PH shot.

Good eye. The elephant does look like its front feet were splaying and it was starting to go down after the PH fired so that second shot from the double could’ve been on a dead elephant. Also, and I intend zero criticism, there was time for a 2nd shot with the bolt action and I do not lower my bolt action rifle when reloading via African style which does eat up more time.

 

[Rare Breed]

Actually, my belief is horses for the courses. Just like I would never run a horse that does well on grass on sand I would not run a double when trying for a red stag at 300+ yards in Argentina. I also would not try to make a 100-yard shot on a buffalo with a double either (though I practice at that distance). The whole point of a DG hunt is to getting closer. Longest distance I have shot a DG (buffalo) was 60 yards at most.

If you have a malfunction on a bolt, then you have an inoperable gun in your hand. On a double you have a second barrel with a second firing pin.

It is funny how these "discussions" turn into ad hominem attacks and assumptions about people's hat choices etc.. In regard to the cost you mentioned, one rule people cite is the 0.01% rule. If something is going to cost less than 0.01% of one's net worth, then there is no need to worry about the cost.

And yes, we do dress differently and have different social circles. That doesn't make one inferior or superior, just different. No need for class warfare.

View attachment 715937

You dress up nicely Andy! You and your lady make a handsome couple!!! God love you…you have more patience with Ontario Hunter than I do and I am a patient man

 

[rbutcher]

High end bolt and low end double…. Everyone should be using a rigby and a heym when on safari. I said what I said. Next question?

 

[MacJenkins]

I think you completely misread the room almost every post. It's that your standards of quality, proficiency, excellence, etc are deemed by you the pinnacle. It shows lack of self awareness.

I have no problem admitting when I cut a corner, don't own the best gun, didn't hunt an animal at the pinnacle of "highest form possible", etc. A healthy amount of self-deprecation is useful and can be endearing to others, I never read that from you.

My best friends on this forum and I speed dial each other when we do the stupidest thing each week. Talented people love to share when their poor life's decisions should serve as a humorous warning to others.

It can be absolutely trivial things, but I'll give you an example or two that cause a lot of eye rolling. I've spent hundreds of hours collecting, installing, importing, and restoring a variety of sling swivels. You might say in that silly little niche, I'm a journeyman of the craft. I wrote a small article on this forum trying to explain to members that own a variety of vintage and best guns what these swivels are and which ones are correct for their rifle, a common problem when people can't understand why things don't go together properly. You posted on that thread some nonsensical stuff about how your uncle mikes swivels are the best, completely missing the nuance of why all these swivels exist (you don't own them) and how each fits a variety of vintage and best guns (you don't own those either). Your 2 minutes of lifetime expertise dedicated to that topic somehow warranted parity with mine and others, you instead brought the conversation down to your rifles as an example of excellence. The same story for discussions on a variety of gun cases with a very similar outcome. We've had threads discussing wilderness area DG hunting and you bring up your RSA high-fence experiences to convince others (yourself?) that there is equivalency. When your ears are pinned to the carpet on any of these topics, you then attempt to berate others with class warfare tripes as though wealth and knowledge are some how the same thing.

That's the frustration. I'm not the richest. I'm not the prettiest. I'm not the best. I don't own the nicest rifles. I'm not the most qualified gun fitter on the planet. I'm not the best gunsmith on the planet. I'm not the best handloader on the planet. The difference is I know my strengths and weaknesses and I can perceive excellence and superiority to myself in people, things, skills, and experiences. I'm not the best, I'm still learning, I'm willing to share with qualifications and limitations to my knowledge on a given topic. I wish you'd see yourself in the same light, listening rather than preaching in the face of superior expertise that abounds on this forum.

It's a shame we can only like this once.

 

[PARA45]

This late in my life, I will most likely never own a double rifle. I would say, own the most reliable rifle you can afford and go hunt. I'm extremely happy with my AHR CZ-550 in 375 H&H and has performed extremely well.

I recently purchased a Blaser R8 and bought a 375 H&H barrel. This R8 is probably the most expensive rifle I own, and plan to put it to good use on my next African safari. Instead of buying a double, I would rather use those funds for another safari. BTW, this is my personal opinion based on my current financial status and not criticizing anyone for owning a double or two. Now, if I win the Lotto tomorrow, all bets are off.

 

[Red Leg]

If you can find a thread where I claimed Uncle Mike's swivels are the best, please provide the link. They are crap and I've never said otherwise. Only thread I can recall discussing my swivels was these recently acquired Titan brand and they are NOT Uncle Mike's! Bought them to REPLACE Uncle Mike's! Can't say the Titans are the best because I haven't owned them long enough (but they can't be worse than Uncle Mike's). Others who have more experience with them chimed in positively.
View attachment 715936
Oh yes. I did start a thread asking about experiences with flush mount swivels (considering them for fore end of rifles [to avoid studs hanging up in sticks or bench rest] and butt of my shotgun (regular studs get caught in my vest when mounting the gun). Don't recall getting much response from you or anyone else.

I don't profess to be the most widely experienced African hunter but I have had good experiences hunting South Africa that have met or exceeded the quality of my extensive hunting experiences in North America. And I am not easily pleased. I do not appreciate some self-pontificating types deprecating those experiences simply because I don't worship their "wild" experiences or their point of view re expensive guns/gear. I'm entightled to express my opinion and they are entitled to theirs, however right or wrong our perceptions might be. The same old "you don't have enough experience with hunting 'wild' Africa or ultra expensive guns/clothing/gear to have a valid opinion" wears very thin. I'm sure a thousand dollar 3X beaver felt safari hat serves the purpose for some high end hunters but probably no better than the equally nice looking $20 crushable wool hat I bought at a Oakhurst grocery store sixteen years ago (though I'd never wear it on safari). But sorry, I will never be convinced, all factors weighed, that a double rifle is inherently safer than a bolt action for hunting dangerous game. It's simply a matter of physical mechanics required to make the two styles operate under duress and the comparative potential for failure. I'm sure as a double gun fan you like to think it's the best choice in every situation and that's fine. It may be important to justify the extraordinary expense ... or not. Go ahead and convince yourself. That's your right. But don't go throwing punches with low jabs like "you don't own one so you don't know" or "you don't hunt 'wild' Africa so your opinion isn't valid." I can see how a double rifle works ... and doesn't work. I have been hunting for more than sixty years almost entirely solo and in some very wild places. My guided hunt experience in those decades, outside of four safaris, was limited to one late fill-in with a group hunt for geese in Saskatchewan (very unsatisfactory). I'm not sure my limited experience with guided hunts really matters. Don't see why it should. Mechanics are mechanics. Is what it is. And in those sixty years I have survived some, indeed many, hair-raising dangerous situations: going through the ice, charged by animals (three times), extremely close encounters with grizzlies (almost daily at one job), lost in an unexpected blizzard, end over end on a horse falling down a mountain, and the first episode in 1971, essentially succumbing to hypothermia. All but most of the grizzly encounters were solo adventures. A guided dangeros game hunt in "wild" Africa seems to pale in comparison for "dangerous" factor. In my opinion anyway.

The capacity for lack of self awareness is truly staggering.

 

[camperx]

I've had a bolt-action fail in extreme cold (12 below zero F). I had kept the rifle in my vehicle so it did not get moisture from camp, but there was still enough moisture in it to freeze.

I cannot afford a double, but it seems the fact - mentioned by Murphster - that you have two different firing systems is a significant consideration.

As much as I would like a double rifle someday, a backup .44 mag revolver is also a nice redundant firing system - at least for deer hunting.

 

[Tanks]

This late in my life, I will most likely never own a double rifle.

I just turned 69 earlier this month. Should have my Rigby Shikari soon. It is never too late.

 

[AZDAVE]

Look forward to hearing about your shikari once you get it.