Heym Model 89 in 500 NE

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by matt85, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. CTDolan

    CTDolan AH Elite

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    I was going to ask the very same. If you're taking a 6 o'clock hold with the bead (common) and it was regulated for a center hold that would give the exact result you're describing. Likely you've already been down this road but in case not I thought it worthy of a mention.
     
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  2. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    both me and the person who regulated the gun shot to roughly the same place. my own shots were about an inch lower but i was also shooting at half the distance. the pictured target came with the gun from Heym.

    i will be contacting Heym about the low POI. i can fix it myself with a new front sight but my work will not likely look as nice as a professional could do.

    -matt
     
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  3. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    I'm tracking now - do they have a US approved gunmaker for warranty work? For instance, H&H uses a US-based pro to do repairs on guns sold from their New York store rather than ship the gun back to the UK. JJ Perodeau could do it and it would likely look better than factory original (maybe change to nice ivory bead while at it! http://jjperodeau.com/).

    Like you, I do not believe that I could live with regulation that low.
     

  4. One Day...

    One Day... AH Fanatic

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    Sorry. Did not mean to be overbearing. Just thought that you appeared disappointed and that, maybe, a few words to explain a few objective aspects would help you appreciate your gun better. All well intended.

    Truth be told, you do not really "have to modify" the gun. The point of balance is a highly personal subjective preference, and changing it is a choice, not a modification per se; and, adjusting sights for the point of impact to cover the point of aim is a normal step directly related to how you use your front sight, as I tried to explain and as apparently a few others seem to think, and it is also directly related to how you control the recoil, which not two of us do the same. THIS is not "modifying," this is what the Brits used to call "fitting" and it is a NORMAL step in the process of getting a double to shoot as and where you want it to.

    That is correct, but not really a problem, and maybe (?) Heym did not see it as a problem because the gun groups nicely, which is the objective of test firing. A front sight 0.06" shorter will make it shoot to your point of aim. Really not a big issue, and again, it is totally classic for different people to shoot iron sights to different points of impacts.

    Did not mean to engage in a confrontational exchange, and not really interested in one, was just trying to help... And as the usual joke goes, if you really hate the gun, I will PM you my mailing address and will be happy to take it off your hands free of charge ;-)
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018

  5. One Day...

    One Day... AH Fanatic

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    Yes, that is true. Descriptions do vary. And for having had a double, well, double on me one time, I will emphatically agree that this IS a safety issue ;-)
     

  6. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    @One Day... i was not upset and no offense was taken. i was mostly making note of how many times you posted. in the future you can quote multiple people in a single response by hitting the "reply" button on the lower right portion of their post. as for being disappointed in my rifle... only a little, for the most part im very happy with the gun. im sure once i get used to the weight and balance it wont bother me so much.

    @Red Leg i just finished writing an email to Heym requesting they do something about the sights on the rifle. hopefully they will be willing to have it fixed in a timely manner as i feel ive waited long enough.

    -matt
     

  7. Chris Sells

    Chris Sells New Member

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    Hello, Matt. For the benefit of other readers, I'll try to cover these topics in detail.

    1) Regulation: A bullet's shape, size, material, powder burn-rate, velocity, etc... are all variables that contribute to how the projectile leaves the barrel. Your rifle was regulated with ammo made by Federal with the Woodleigh Hydro Solid (the exact lot number of which should be written on the bottom of the target.) Whether any other ammo shoots to the same point of impact will depend on the variables listed above. There is nothing a rifle maker can do (HEYM or otherwise) when rifling the barrels, cutting the chambers or adjusting the barrels' convergence that can make different brands of ammo (with different makes and/or shapes of projectiles, powders, etc...) shoot to the same point of impact.

    More information on the regulation can be seen in the video below:


    2) Intercepting Sears: the initial take-up in the triggers (@ 1/8") is mechanically moving the intercepting sears to clear a path for the falling hammer. As mentioned, this is rarely seen on boxlocks and typically reserved for much more expensive sidelocks. I think that you will find - that with a little practice - you will become accustomed to them and appreciate the margin of safety they provide over other rifles without them.

    3) POI: The target below shows the POA/POI for the regulation load at 50-meters. You mentioned that you shot it at 25-yards.

    As someone mentioned, a shooter's size, weight, height, how much or little they "fight" the recoil, how hard a rifle is held, etc... can all impact the POI. It is not uncommon to have to make minor changes in the sights for an individual shooter... a little up, down, left or right. These are easy adjustments to make - and we are glad to make them - but I would encourage you to shoot the rifle at longer distances before we make any adjustments.

    4) Ammunition: It is also more common than it should be to see differences in lot-to-lot of ammunition... specifically with velocity. If the last batch of ammo made by XYZ company is going faster or slower than the first one, the bullets will not print exactly the same. We discussed this in detail when you requested the Federal ammo. More consistent results can be achieved by loading your own, as this will ensure that velocity from shot-to-shot is consistent.
    [​IMG]

    5) Warranty: HEYM rifles come standard with a life-time warranty, and all warranty work is handled in the US.

    Again, it is no problem to bring up the POI, but I would encourage you to shoot the rifle a bit more (at longer distances too) before making any sight adjustments.
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    @Chris Sells I understand completely why the Hornady doesn't regulate. this doesn't bother me in the least as it regulates absolutely perfect with the Federal ammunition (the requested ammunition). the take up in the triggers surprised me but wont be an issue once ive gotten used to it.

    -matt
     

  9. One Day...

    One Day... AH Fanatic

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    Thanks Matt, I am learning...
    There is a very good point in this video Chris, in addition to everything we already discussed in this post, which is the diameter of the front bead. In Reflex Sights on Dangerous Game Rifles I indicated: "Changing front sights on my DG guns has been like blowing the candles on the birthday cake every decade or so. I had to get from a 5/64" bead to a 3/32" as a 40th birthday "present," then to a 5/32" for my 50th candle, and as I will blow the 60th in a few months, I reckon that I would need a 1/4" bead by now LOL. Yep, I can still shoot the 5/32" in a bit of a blur, but I will only group 2 to 3" with it, so, let's face it, my iron sights days are gone." As a result I installed a Docter III sight on my .458 Lott (Matt, the offer still stands, I will take that Heym .500 off your hands free of charge anytime LOL ;-), and low and behold I am back to sub-MOA with it. Amazing how these big bores generally shoot once we learn how to deal with the recoil!). I chose the 3.5 MOA dot and it works great for me. They also offer a 7 MOA dot but I was concerned that it may be too big and produce the same effect as a large diameter bead. Not sure. Will be interesting to hear from guys who shoot a 7 MOA dot.
    Matt, you will undoubtedly hear that a red dot on a fine double is an aesthetic heresy, and it is, but man is it a practical no-brainer! And if memory serves, the Heym already comes with a dovetail for it and they offer their own detachable bases for Trijicon and Docter. Ugly as sin? Yep! But deadly as a gut-shot buff! I have no experience with Trijicon, Leupold, etc, etc, but I vouch for Docter. If it can withstand the recoil of a 9 lb .458 Lott, it will be more than fine for an 11 1/2 lb+ .500. My recommendation would be to purchase quickly a Docter III (if this is the brand you choose) while they are still available (I have had good service from Euro Optics at https://www.eurooptic.com/docter-red-dot-sights.aspx) because I suspect that you will appreciate in Africa its ability to have an extra-high luminosity setting (they have three user-selectable luminosity curves), which the newer Docter C does not have. It has proved very valuable in the Arizona sun, where I live.

    Pascal
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018

  10. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Function over form in my apparently aesthetically challenged mind. This will be going on my .470NE sometime in the near future. Trijicon RM that was on sale for a price not to be passed up.

    IMG_1519.JPG

    Perhaps @AZDAVE and I should make a trip north to meet up with you say during July when it is hell on earth down here in desert. A weekend of shooting the doubles would be fun.
     

  11. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    i used a Trijicon RMR on my 505 gibbs and aside from it being 3 moa, I loved it! this rifle will be getting the new Trijicon RMR 1 moa optic. ive already got the RMR and im just waiting for the mount to arrive from Heym USA.

    -matt
     
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  12. Mlibizi 8182

    Mlibizi 8182 AH Senior Member

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    Still trying to make contact with you
     

  13. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    who?

    -matt
     

  14. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    so I figure I should give a bit of an update.

    ive been shooting the 500 more and have gotten used to the triggers. as long as your prepared for the first stage then the trigger pull is heavy but there is no creep.

    the iron sights will still need to be adjusted but ive been using a Trijicon 1 MOA RMR so it hasn't been an issue. the new 1 MOA Trijicon is a massive improvement over the old 3 MOA Trijicon I used on the 505 Gibbs. the dot is much more crisp and the smaller size makes for much more precise aiming.

    as for ammunition, I did a bunch of playing around with factory loads and while the Federal ammunition loaded with Woodleigh Hydro's is close its just not as good as I would like it to be. this isn't an issue as I don't plan on using factory ammunition in this rifle unless I have to. ive been playing around with hand loads and for the moment ive developed a very good load with IMR 4350 and Swift A-frames.

    here is a picture of a 50 yard regulation target using 570gr Swift A-frames over 104.5gr of IMR 4350. the left barrel prints one inch under the right barrel with A-frames which is a little odd but its consistent and quite accurate so it doesn't bother me. (the little holes are from a 22LR we were playing with)
    img038.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018

  15. MechaDriver

    MechaDriver AH Member

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    Thanks for letting me shoot it today Matt. It's a very nice rifle.
     
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  16. CTDolan

    CTDolan AH Elite

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    Question: Would you feel secure facing an elephant at 30 feet, this rifle in your hands?

    If the answer is “yes”, you win.
     
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  17. One Day...

    One Day... AH Fanatic

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    .470 group.jpg
    This is very pleasing to read Matt, I am really happy for you. It was a bit heart-breaking to perceive some disappointment in your early posts, because one cannot help but feel that a guy who saves hard and long for a gun like this, as you did, should be happy when it finally comes.

    Thank you for the feedback on the 1 MOA red dot. I had been wondering... As posted earlier I have a 3 MOA on my bolt action .458 Lott and was wondering if it is not a bit too big. Looks like you gave the answer...

    I still do not have one on my double (K gun .470), and the best I do with it these days is 1.75" at 50 yards with blurry iron rights (which is still plenty good enough for what it is intended to do). The gun shot well this weekend, testing a new lot of Hornady DGS (I fully agree with others that there ARE variations from lot to lot, e.g. this lot lands about 1" higher at 50 yard than another one, which is still OK because at 30 feet it is still dead on). I am lucky that my gun groups Hornady factory loads well enough, and in the black (and a few other factory loads too if the bullet shapes are reasonably similar), because it gives me an "inexpensive" - if there is such a thing - widely available factory load to fall back on, since I still have not found the way to make time for serious hand loading... I have hopes that the DGX BONDED cured the DGX issues (Kevin "Doctari" Robertson seems to thin so), and in any case, most DGX issues happened at velocity higher than a .470 produces, so I have not been overly concerned. I will let you know how the DGX B worked for me when I come back from a Limpopo buff hunt this coming August...

    But back to your gun, grouping .500 570gr A Frames in 1 inch at 50 yard is truly the holy grail. Do not loose that recipe LOL. Congratulations...
    I agree with you on another point, now that you know what the gun can do (and what it can do is impressive), regulating the iron sights to the point of impact will finish the "getting to know each other" journey...
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
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