Help with info on a Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle

You can fire form 30 06 brass and trim it down to 57mm.

Have you done this?

It is my understanding that the 'old school' method of reforming .30-'06 to 9.5X57 involved several steps with expanders, dies, trimmers... .

I have used fresh .35 Whelen brass, run once through a two die RCBS die set, trimmed to proper length.

MS 9.5X57 Reeds, Mine, DWM531, Mine Fired.jpg

Left to Right: New 9.5X57 from Reed's of Oklahoma, One of my old handloads from fresh .35 Whelen brass reformed with RCBS dies and filled with Hornady 3715, Original (1926 dated) DWM531, Once fired brass from one of my '.35 Whelen' handloads.
 
To add a bit about the Austrian proof marks of lack thereof. It was common in the early part of the 20th century for British "best" gunmakers to purchase actions from Steyr and put their own barrels on them (they bought barreled actions too). Thus, no Austrian proof house marks would be stamped because those unbarreled actions would not have been proofed before they shipped to Britain. I have a M1900 from George Gibbs without Austrian proof marks but the same circle T mark on the barrel and action as your M1910. Your rifle's maker, James Woodward and Sons, was certainly one of the highest regarded British best gun makers of the time and they were located on St James's street (as your rifle indicates) from roughly the late 1800s until around 1937-39ish (just before WWII).
1720649983253.png

In general, the MS M1910 was a popular rifle at the time because the take down version you have would, in many cases, been fitted in a nice, leather covered valise for travel. A lot of British officers combing the far corners of the British Empire would order, purchase and carry these rifles abroad with them on their adventures. They were considered a good "lion gun" and/or part of a battery of rifles carried on safari, perhaps along with a .256 Mannlicher and a double gun.

Unfortunately, I've seen many Mannlicher Schoenauer take down rifles of various prewar models (M1903-M1910) with the stock broken at the same spot on the wrist. I can only guess it's the thinnest part of the stock and therefore some inherent weakness there.

Have fun shooting your own wonderful piece of history... if only it could tell us where all it has been and what it has seen!
 
To add a bit about the Austrian proof marks of lack thereof. It was common in the early part of the 20th century for British "best" gunmakers to purchase actions from Steyr and put their own barrels on them (they bought barreled actions too). Thus, no Austrian proof house marks would be stamped because those unbarreled actions would not have been proofed before they shipped to Britain. I have a M1900 from George Gibbs without Austrian proof marks but the same circle T mark on the barrel and action as your M1910. Your rifle's maker, James Woodward and Sons, was certainly one of the highest regarded British best gun makers of the time and they were located on St James's street (as your rifle indicates) from roughly the late 1800s until around 1937-39ish (just before WWII).
View attachment 618938
In general, the MS M1910 was a popular rifle at the time because the take down version you have would, in many cases, been fitted in a nice, leather covered valise for travel. A lot of British officers combing the far corners of the British Empire would order, purchase and carry these rifles abroad with them on their adventures. They were considered a good "lion gun" and/or part of a battery of rifles carried on safari, perhaps along with a .256 Mannlicher and a double gun.

Unfortunately, I've seen many Mannlicher Schoenauer take down rifles of various prewar models (M1903-M1910) with the stock broken at the same spot on the wrist. I can only guess it's the thinnest part of the stock and therefore some inherent weakness there.

Have fun shooting your own wonderful piece of history... if only it could tell us where all it has been and what it has seen!
I keep asking my model 1905 the same questions.
 
..It was common in the early part of the 20th century for British "best" gunmakers to purchase actions from Steyr and put their own barrels on them (they bought barreled actions too). Thus, no Austrian proof house marks would be stamped because those unbarreled actions would not have been proofed before they shipped to Britain. I have a M1900 from George Gibbs without Austrian proof marks but the same circle T mark on the barrel and action as your M1910.
Quite true, but most were on the 6.5X54 chambering of the original (prototype, pre production) M1900 as well as Y1903 'Greek Contract' (and their descendants) and M1903 sporting rifles / carbines.

That is why I say that it is unusual, though not unheard of, to find a M1910 MS (9.5X57 - .375 Nitro Express Rimless) without Austrian proofs.

From what I've read the 'Circle T' was for Tiegelgusstahl, indicative of a high grade steel for which the Steyr region was known.
 
Sorry I'm a bit late to this party... Things have been hectic and I haven't had a lot of free time.

Re: proof marks, I have a very early (three digit serial number) M1910 that as far as I know, was exported to the US. It has no proof marks.

The proof mark should be on both the barrel and the receiver. In my case, the barrel shows nothing, and the receiver has a soldered on scope mount, probably original, as it is set for a Viennese Snap Mount.

Both of my M1903s (one 1939, one 1921) do show the Austrian proof marks. Both were originally sold in the German market, and that is what I would expect.

All have the Tiegelgusstahl marking.

Re: cartridges, I would suggest being cautious. The new Dorfner stuff I had (now I just have fired brass, funny that) worked well. Dorfner is no longer making this round.I did find some older (c. 1950s, marked as non-corrosive) that had split cases after every firing. I did use it to fire my last nädel shoot, and I'm told the muzzle blast was impressive. I only fired about six rounds, and stopped when I noticed the splitting. I pulled the remaining rounds, and found cordite. Not trusting the brass, I used what I had to make some dummy rounds.

Winter project this year is to work up a load with the .375 Woodleighs I have found. Looking forward to Woodleigh making more.
 
What year was it proofed? Marking should be on underside of barrel just forward of chamber. Should be a 3 or 4 digit number a slash followed by 2 digit number denoting the year it was proofed.

Be sure to use proper fitting fine (thin) drivers.

View attachment 617353
Rifle shown was the 711th arm to be 'Nitro Proofed' at Vienna (NPv) during calendar year 1907. It is an M1905 as identified by 'C 9.0' (9X56MS). The Steyr serial number is _1274_ which would be repeated on bolt, original stock.

I've never tried it, but have read (and viewed videos) that rubbing a bronze coin (pre 1982 U.S. Cent, old British Penny...) on those crusty spots may remove surface rust while leaving blueing intact.
I have a M-S 1905 dated 695.07...all matching, incl. stock...serial number 1295...very close
 
Dyls85
I picked up a barreled action minus the stock and related hardware ,recently of a 1910 in 9.5x56 and through people here and another web site managed to get all the missing pieces. I did obtain a stock but it was cracked through the wrist, as of this posting I have made repairs to it in hopes it will work out. This is the first MS I have owned hopefully when I can find a set of dies and brass can get it out and shooting. I have found there is a lot of knowledge here that can help a new owner through the trials. Good luck on your acquisition.
 
A bit late but here are a few updates, I know I’m probably going to get grief for the scope and bipod mount by the purists, but honestly it’s now a working rifle that shoots like an absolute gem. Very happy with my m1910.

All my brass is resized 30 06 rounds which I fire formed through the m1910.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9149.jpeg
    IMG_9149.jpeg
    3.9 MB · Views: 16
  • 15D84BB4-4E33-4BD0-BF14-11916416465E.jpeg
    15D84BB4-4E33-4BD0-BF14-11916416465E.jpeg
    2.2 MB · Views: 17
  • 08678881-84FC-4369-8C84-735D4C8591EE.jpeg
    08678881-84FC-4369-8C84-735D4C8591EE.jpeg
    2.2 MB · Views: 15
  • f0d89509-c65a-443b-92eb-5dc9df7e528e.jpeg
    f0d89509-c65a-443b-92eb-5dc9df7e528e.jpeg
    186 KB · Views: 16
Last edited:
A bit late but here are a few updates, I know I’m probably going to get grief for the scope and bipod mount by the purists, but honestly it’s now a working rifle that shoots like an absolute gem. Very happy with my m1910.

All my brass is resized 30 06 rounds which I fire formed through the m1910.
For shooting the bipod and scope make it easier. For hunting they negate all the good handling characteristics of the Mannlicher action and rifle. Your gun so do what makes you happy.
 
What you have is a Mannlicher Schoenauer M1910 Take Down Model as manufactured by Oesterreiche Waffenfabriken Gesellschaft Steyr prior to the second world war.

View attachment 617009

If unaltered, the chambering is 9.5X57MS, also known as .375 Nitro Express Rimless.

View attachment 617010
The proprietary Mannlicher Schoenauer cartridges, each of which were model specific:
M1903 (as well as M1900 prototypes, Y1903 Greek military contracts) - 6.5X54MS.
M1905 - 9X56MS.
M1908 - 8X56MS.
M1910 - 9.5X57MS.

You will likely take up reloading to feed her. Load cartridges to these exact specifications of overall length and profile (including shape of projectile) and she will perform flawlessly:

View attachment 617011

This is my Grand Dad with his M1910 Take Down Model in Ceylon, 1930:
View attachment 617012

A considerable amount of information regarding the MS may be found here: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/mannlicher-schönauer-prewar-m1900-m1903-m1905-m1908-m1910-m1924-m1925-or-high-velocity.47277/
Great photo! That is a big double old mate is holding on the left of your grandad! Any idea what it was?
 
Great photo! That is a big double old mate is holding on the left of your grandad! Any idea what it was?
I have that info. somewhere, don't recall offhand.

Another AH member has a Pakistani book which has details of that very hunt, was going to have a relative translate relevant passages for me. Somewhere I do have the name of the guide as well as some names of the 'locals' on the hunt and firearms used.

That particular leopard had become a nuisance to farmers who were more than happy to have it 'removed'.
 
If you want to know more about this rifle contact James Purdey in London . They have the books for James Woodward ( purchased by Purdey circa 1947 ) . They will provide full written details including - date of rifle sale , the buyer details , original stock dimensions etc . All for a fee but not overly expensive.
 
You are correct, it was a 9.5 and not a 9.3. With a 270 gr bullet at 2200 fps it was superior to the .375 flanged, but would still not be my choice for poking either an elephant or a buffalo regardless how many Bell killed with his 6.5x54, 7x57, or .318 WR.

I was not aware it edged out the 375 H&H flanged! Not too shabby.
 
A bit late but here are a few updates, I know I’m probably going to get grief for the scope and bipod mount by the purists, but honestly it’s now a working rifle that shoots like an absolute gem. Very happy with my m1910.

All my brass is resized 30 06 rounds which I fire formed through the m1910.


Hard to see in the photos, but if the bipod did not involve permanent alteration, no major 'foul' has been committed in my opinion.

Grand Dad's 1922 proofed M1910 Take Down Model wears a Gerard B 'scope on claw mounts. A 'period' alteration which was done before he purchased it second hand in late 1929 or January of '30.

Bottom line; it's your rifle and if that suits you better and makes it more practical for intended use - have at it. If someone were to rechamber it to 6.5 Creedmoor or paint it pink, that would be a major 'party foul'.

Please do elaborate on your 'fire forming' technique and process. Watch for stretched and weakened brass in the 'web' area.

Also, what projectiles are you using?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
60,696
Messages
1,324,413
Members
112,454
Latest member
CharlotteAur
 

 

 

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

Incredible 54" Kudu Bull Hunted In South Africa!!​

Hunting a 45” Sable Bull | South Africa | Elite Hunting Outfitters​

Another Great Trip, with Another Happy Client! Can't beat fair prices, for great trophies!
xb40 wrote on Ivorygrip's profile.
You have the wrong person. I have no idea what you are talking about..
Safari Dave wrote on GUN & TROPHY INSURANCE's profile.
I have been using a "Personal Property" rider on my State Farm homeowner's policy to cover guns when I travel with them.
I have several firearms, but only one is worth over $20K (A Heym double rifle).
Very interested.
Would firearms be covered for damage, as well as, complete loss?
I'll can let the State Farm rider cover my watches...
 
Top