Help me get my daughter to a safari!

[mrpoindexter]

I think I have a chance to bring my eldest daughter (13) on safari, but am going to need some help in points to make to my wife. Here is the situation:

We are all new to archery (just over a year for my girls and almost a year for me). I am new to hunting with only one hunt in RSA last August. That was supposed to be a safari for the whole family (as a gift from friends), but my wife said no and no kids, so I went alone.

I have a second safari I bought that I originally wanted to bring the kids on. Wife said no. It was for up to 4 people. As I am new to hunting, I had no hunting buddies to hit up but finally found one who would come. We made it a couples event, me and my wife, he and his wife and the wives could hang out while we hunted during the day. That was the plan for several months. Two days ago, my friend lets me know he cannot go. Scratch him. Scratch his wife. Now my wife would be alone in came all day. The location isn't in a touristy area and she has no desire to watch me hunt. So, options are me alone, or the whole family, where my wife will be keeping an eye on 3 girls, aged 13, 11 and 3. That didn't sound appealing to her.

I am making a case to bring my 13 year old with me. She can hunt the smallest animals (impala and smaller) and I can take down the bigger ones. We will both be using a bow. I just got her a new bow and she is on fire with it - the last tournament we were at, half way through she was only 3 points behind me and she is ranked #4 in the State of California for her age/classification. Her teacher is a gold medal Olympic archer. Her first hunt will be for pig in the next couple weeks, whenever it dries out enough to hunt here.

She passed her hunter safety course, got her license and is already shooting 33lbs comfortably and I expect we can get her to 37 pounds for hunts pretty easily and have enough power/penetration to take out animals up to blesbok size. All I need is my wife to give the green light.

My wife is not an anti-hunter, but does not understand it either. I don't want my kids to grow up so removed from things that they oppose them from lack of understanding them.

What are the points I should be making? We are going to discuss this tonight. She can take the other kids to Disneyland as a make-up for not going to Africa.

My points so far:
1. I want to bond with my daughter before she becomes a "teenager" and refuses to go off grid for a week. By the time she is of an age my wife will be comfortable, she would rather stay in town and hang with her friends, so later might not work.
2. World travel is an amazing learning opportunity and will give her a better perspective on life.
3. She is going to get to go to Africa and see animals in the wild, not in a cage/enclosure in a zoo in California.

I am sure there are some more/better points to make, but I can't think of any right now and want to have as strong a case as possible.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mrpoindexter]

Here is an example of her shooting when she got a new sight for her first bow at the Sportsman's Warehouse one day. Granted, it was only 13 yards away, as they had a short range just for testing, but wow, she has skills.

 

[brushmore]

Let her know there is more to do besides hunting. Where I went in the Eastern Cape there are game drives in parks, elephant rides, and a chance to pet cheetahs. My wife was the same way but came along to do the photo safari thing but once she observed hunting she wanted to hunt as well and now she is hooked. Now she wants her own hunting rifle for hunting here in the states. I tried to give her one of mine so I can get a new one but that isn't going to fly.

 

[billc]

I would point out how it seems your daughter is starting to like and enjoy doing archery with you. Then it maybe hard but if your daughter really wants to go let her talk to your wife also. I took my son when he was 12 and so glad I did. Though at the time we thought it was a once and a lifetime it was not as he will making his 3rd trip. Let your wife know what it will mean to you and why you think it is so important now. A trip to Africa is a dream and anyone with the means to go should do it.

I really hope she understands and lets you take her. just remember if she goes you may need a letter from your wife saying your daughter can go some new law done a few years ago if both mom/ dad are not there for the trip

 

[Buckdog]

my wife was a city girl doesn't hunt not against it, helps me process deer etc and puts up with my PIA so she is a saint. She was more than happy to send kids off with dad (I Have a girl and boy) grown now and grandkids. My daughter never a hunter but was serious fishing person until teen yrs then onto the teen life stuff. My son is good to go, sometimes PIA in my ass but we did plenty trips and never killed each other (teen age males are "special"). So the primary question I have for you and advice is to ask your wife just why your daughter cant do a awesome bonding activity with dad? the you need to address her objections. probably doesn't think it is safe in Africa, etc. I got that objection sometimes to some trips etc but told her hey I will bring them home in one piece or die trying and that's all you want to know and kids learned to dummy up don't tell mom certain things as she doesn't need to know about close calls and misadventures! I wish you the very best and hope it works out it will be great memories for you. if you can looses up the wife for the first adventure I bet you will be golden My son was 12 and he was my back up gun with a 22 and protecting dad from moose stomping me on do it your self archery moose hunt

 

[Savage Hunter]

Definitely the our little girl thing is what you need to key on.
I would have her on the computer looking at African game often.
Start showing her pics of animals that she can hunt with a bow.
Then, show her pics she can hunt with a rifle so she can hunt 1 or 2 bigger animals also.

My wife is small and hunted Africa with a 7-08 and killed a zebra along with 3 other animals, one is the caracal in my avatar . the 7-08 or 308 is plenty to do the job on most animals with good shot placement.
If you don't have a youth rifle for her, ask the PH if they have some rifle appropriate for ladies/youth.

By opening this up to rifle also, you could peak her interest even more .
Then, when she is excited, get your wife involved by having your daughter excitedly show them to her.
Then, if she sees her baby going, then even she might come along.

btw, most places that do archery have the hides set up for mostly 20 yard shots.

 

[wesheltonj]

Do like I did, make it a family trip, and hit Cape Town, Kruger NP, Chobe NP, & Victoria Falls + hunting.

 

[Pheroze]

The message is that hunting builds character and poise like few other endeavors. Confidence and tenacity too. Who else in her circle will gain the experience she will? It is an opportunity to show her life outside of our media driven drivel. Perhaps a good role model will help the discussion courtesy of fellow board member @Mekaniks

www.africahunting.com/threads/alyssas-senior-pics.34760/

 

[Grady]

1. Father Daughter Bonding
2. Life Lessons
3. Starting Traditions

Father Daughter bonding! This is an amazing opportunity for the two of you to spend some quality time together and an opportunity that you may not get again with your oldest daughter. I recently took my 17 y/o daughter on her first Safari. She was not that thrilled about spending 10 days with dad and she loves hunting, but in the end, she is already talking about going back with me. I wish I would have taken her earlier because she is off to college next year and my time with her before she starts a job and family AFTER college is limited.

School can only teach her so much and this is a life experience that will teach her more in a few days than school could teach in years. We hunted in the eastern cape, on the drive back to the lodge from a side trip thru the town of Patterson, there was a stark reminder that we were in an area that most in the US cannot understand. Seeing the houses made with corrugated tin and farm animals in neighborhoods made my daughter understand the problems she encounters in the states are small in the big scheme of things and she more than ever understands that many of the local people that we encountered would happily pay her to have the problems that she has in the States.

This is an opportunity to start a tradition with your girls. You can take each one of them on a "special" trip when they are 13. Just the two of you. It will become something that they will remember for the rest of their lives. Don't miss it! You might even be able to take each of them on their own special hunting trip (Australia, Europe, Canada, New Zealand, Nambia, back to S. Africa).

This is from a father of two girls. One is a hunter the other not so much. My youngest is already planning her "Daddy / Daughter" trip to New York City.....I am the one who is not looking forward to spending two weeks in that city! But I am looking forward to the special time and memories I will be able to create with her.

 

[rookhawk]

This is such an important opportunity! Contrary to what your wife thinks (too young), I suspect you are running dangerously close to "too old" to bring your daughter. If you do not instill this father-daughter time early, she may be preoccupied with other things in her later teen years, then college, marriage and it could never happen. Carpe Diem!

Africa is plenty safe for you two to hunt together for certain. I would feel much better if she was shooting a .243 or 7x57 or 7-08 rifle for the hunting, however. 33lb bow is way too weak. While 40lb draw is okay for whitetail deer as a legal minimum for short shots on American game, it does not seem to be the prudent choice for animals that maybe at farther distances where they can jump the string or move too much before the arrow reaches them or that is insufficient for killing purposes.

I just started hunting with my eldest daughter and we had a blast (age 7). As I'm typing this I keep getting interrupted by her because she is upset she can't come to Africa with me this year. (wilderness fly camp in Zimbabwe is not a place for a 7 year old with mom 10,000 miles away) I would not hesitate to bring a very mature 8 or 9 year old on a South African safari that has a main lodge and some basic amenities.

I hope you can persuade your wife to let your daughter come and I hope she can shoot a rifle as I think that will provide her the best odds of success and a more engaging experience than sitting in a blind for a week in the hot air, suffering heat exhaustion.

 

[BRICKBURN]

What is your wife's concern?
What is the basis for the resistance?

Fear; Safety, objection to hunting, etc.

Ask her questions instead of selling her.

 

[Bullthrower338]

I could see this being an argument with an exwife, not a current one. My ex thought it was an awesome idea to take my son. I'm certain you don't complain when they go do girl stuff like spas and shopping. Hell, a shopping mall can be one of the most dangerous places(that's why I don't go, I only hang out at safe gun stores). Personally I would say this is how the cow eats cabbage, the damn world isn't like Taken(parts 1-35).
Disclaimer: Taking any type of marital advice from Bullthrower338 can be detrimental to a relationship.
Best of luck,
Cody

 

[mrpoindexter]

I checked with Bowhunting Safari Consultants and they give the minimum specs for bow hunting would be a 350 grain arrow and 25 Ft-Lbs of Kinetic Energy for the smallest 7 game listed (Blesbok, Bushbuck, Duiker, Steenbok, Springbok, Impala and Klipsspringer). Of those seven, six of them are available at the concession we are headed to.

I know 33lbs is too low of a draw weight. She is shooting those for competitions where she might shoot 60-80 arrows in one day. That won't be the case on the safari and I am certain we can get her up to 37lbs. Putting my 2-blade broadheads from my Cape buffalo hunt on her arrows, we would have a 350 grain, high FOC (23%) arrow that hits the minimum specs for arrow weight and just over the requirement for KE. I expect her first time hunting to be from a blind, so she will have short shots. Even 15 yards out, she will be meeting the KE requirements and with the 2-blade BH, she should improve her penetration.

I will likely get her a rifle that she can use on some larger game up to Kudu/Zebra/Gemsbuck size and work with her on her rifle shooting. With luck, I will be shopping for a .270 in the very near future. I think the weather will be great - we will be there in July, which is their winter.

 

[rookhawk]

I'm not an African bow hunter but I know several of the animals of those small 7 are totally impractical with a child shooting a bow. Most of those are ultimate challenge spot-and-stalk shots at 45+ yards with an amazing shot from a master hunter.

When you say 13 year old with a bow and a limited draw weight, I picture you in a blind over bait or a watering hole. Most of those species have no intention of coming into bait or a watering hole.

Warthog (tough animals and notorious string jumpers), impala and kudu are the most likely targets from a blind I would imagine?

Expert bow hunters step in if I'm off on my assessment?

 

[Red Leg]

I checked with Bowhunting Safari Consultants and they give the minimum specs for bow hunting would be a 350 grain arrow and 25 Ft-Lbs of Kinetic Energy for the smallest 7 game listed (Blesbok, Bushbuck, Duiker, Steenbok, Springbok, Impala and Klipsspringer). Of those seven, six of them are available at the concession we are headed to.

I know 33lbs is too low of a draw weight. She is shooting those for competitions where she might shoot 60-80 arrows in one day. That won't be the case on the safari and I am certain we can get her up to 37lbs. Putting my 2-blade broadheads from my Cape buffalo hunt on her arrows, we would have a 350 grain, high FOC (23%) arrow that hits the minimum specs for arrow weight and just over the requirement for KE. I expect her first time hunting to be from a blind, so she will have short shots. Even 15 yards out, she will be meeting the KE requirements and with the 2-blade BH, she should improve her penetration.

I will likely get her a rifle that she can use on some larger game up to Kudu/Zebra/Gemsbuck size and work with her on her rifle shooting. With luck, I will be shopping for a .270 in the very near future. I think the weather will be great - we will be there in July, which is their winter.

So first of all, you and your bride need to have a frank discussion. As Brickburn suggests "selling" isn't the basis of such a discussion. It also sounds like you have a budding hunting buddy. Archery is a wonderful thing, but I think it would be the last means I would use to introduce a daughter or granddaughter into the serious business of taking game cleanly. Have her become comfortable with a rifle. Rent one from the PH or buy her one for Africa. Have her comfortable at the range before you depart. Do everything in your power to make sure that first kill is a clean one. A light bow and low velocity are a prescription for a long follow-upto a wounded still suffering animal - the worst possible introduction to our sport.

 

[K-man]

You have great advice already. I think you should hold off discussions until after she has taken some of the local game, see how she handles the rest of the hunting experience. Worst thing would be 8000 miles from home on an expensive trip and find out taking a game animal is "icky", or wounding one and having it suffer.

 

[kathy]

I have seen good numbers of all 7 animals you mentioned at water holes 20 yards or less.
I think she will be fine with her setup, shot placement is critical , you and her sit down and study the anatomy of African game.
As far as convincing your wife I hope she is not as bull headed as mine. Forrest

 

[billc]

With the look of that target and she does that normally and that is just not the best one she has ever done. She is already shooting better then me and most on here. Her group at 20 will not be all that much wider then that I bet. I would worry maybe the heads your talking about maybe to much for the arrows and they may not be stiff enough for that head. Most target arrows don't make great hunting arrows. You get her to 38 or 40 lbs she will be more then ok for a few animals. If she is doing 60 shots at 33lbs by july 40lbs will be no problem. I would bet if the bow can go higher she could get to 45lbs by july

Now saying that the pull of the bow all changes when your sitting not standing so you want her trying shooting from a chair or knees. Depending on the blind she may need to so good to know if she can. I would also have her shot a 3d deer target to see if she can find the spot you tell her to hit and do it again and again. No little colored circle to aim for on those animals.

As far as gun or bow for first safari a bad shot with either is all the same. If she is in to bow hunting she will more then likely what to do that over rifle and willing to put more time to do it right. Most would have told you the same thing being a new hunter do it with a rifle. If I am right it looks like you did your buff with a bow so you see what a bow does.

Blesbuck, impala , duiker , springbuck all come to water so she will have targets to go for. If she does well on the pig hunt and it is a good size pig you could add warthog to that list.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Going to Africa will give her a perspective that will change her life and outlook on the world. The first time gave me perspective, the second time humbled me and I think has forever changed my life. It teaches you how fortunate we are,how simple life can be, and how we have to work for the things we want. Of your wife wants her to grow up to be a humble and appreciative of this wonderful life we are all blessed with she will let her go. I see some of these reality shows and I pray that if I have a daughter these aren't the role models she is exposed to.

I think the bonding think is a good point. My dad and I could barely be in the same room with each other when I was a teenager, but we could share a duck blind. Those days are special ones.

If you are determine to us a bow, I would lighten the broadheads, I understand kentic energy, but big grain broadheads, bigger drop, speed kills and shot placement matters.

You could always get a crossbow? Or see if they have a rifle to rent. Let her decide and let her do it her way, whether it is the long stalk in the grass or the long wait in the blind. She will earn it and have a great time with her dad!

Oh and just load up on bitlong!

 

[MMAL]

You should do everything in your power to get the whole family over to Africa. Went last year with my wife and four kids. 15-4. Had an absolute trip of a lifetime. Better than Disney, club med, and sandals combined. Look up a long hunt report I did for Westfalen in Namibia. Maybe that will help you convince her.

Last thought is there are very few outfitters that do not have day trips the kids and your wife can do. Talk to them.


Good luck.