Has your PH ever sent you out without him?

[K-man]

I understand why a great P.H. uses trackers. During my first trip, after being amazed at the skill being displayed like they do every day, I likened there skill like playing basketball. I am (was) pretty good, played a bit in college. I understand the game, the rules, etc. Now lets look at Kevin Durant, King James, etc. No way I am in that league or should even step on the court. Doesn't mean I'm not a good tracker, just not in the same league. P.H's understand that as well. Plus it's nice to have someone to go get the truck, cut a road, change a tire, carry a gun or backpack, etc. I have great respect for those who do the work of a tracker, and I trust them, but the P.H. has the LEGAL responsibility for me.

 

[IdaRam]

This thread has gone from nuanced and interesting, to disturbing, to just plain disappointing.
There's obviously two distictly separate issues: a) legally hunting with someone other than your primary PH. Someone who is possibly a lesser qualified or more junior individual. Or b) hunting illegally without the company of a licensed PH or "guide".
a) Seems like as long as both parties agree and are happy, who cares? If the client isn't satisfied and lacks confidence in the abilities of the alternate, that's a fair feeling and fair to express to his PH. The PH should respect and appreciate that.
b) Hunting is under enough fire without people engaging in illegal activities. Doing so is irresponsible and selfish. I share Simon's sentiment about turning in anyone who knowingly and willingly breaks the law. I have turned in poachers in the past and worked with law enforcement to ensure their prosecution and conviction. I would do the same thing with a PH, Outfitter or client who knowingly, willingly and negligently breaks the law.
If that is not your position as well, I respectfully suggest you are part of the problem, not the solution.
The other stuff... Well, just smells like to me.
Flame away if you wish

 

[Royal27]

Sometimes you just really wish the double like button was installed.

This is one of those times.

This again @IdaRam

 

[Andrew Jones]

As a client I am contracting with the outfitter and PH who are responsible for obeying all the laws and keeping my sorry ass safe and out of trouble. As someone noted you don't want to be in an African jail. Remember the Cecil Fiasco?

I remember it only too well. Lion imports are banned into Australia as a result. I had to cancel a lion hunt. Which is why I keep on about ethical fair chase.

 

[Andrew Jones]

I found a review where a PH/owner sent the client out hunting without him. The client went hunting with a licensed guide/driver and the tracker. In the review it said something about the PH needing do something else that day and then another day (on the same hunt) something else on the farm needed his attention so the client went out without him but took the rest of the crew.

Is this common?

In the review the client did not seem to mind and left a glowing review of the entire hunt. I'm just curious if this happens on a regular basis.

Heaven forbid a hunter should ever have to be self sufficient?! If it is illegal then every PH who has ever dropped a bowhunter at a blind for the day, even with a radio and or a tracker has broken the law? This is standard procedure for many many PHs. The gaols must be overflowing.

 

[Andrew Jones]

@Andrew Jones

It isn't a normal forum. I will say that.

What I mean by this is that we have manners and act as if we were face to face, and not with the normal rude behavior shown on many forums. We police ourselves, which is why there are only 2 moderators, including the site's owner.

It isn't just the mods who don't tolerate rudeness, it's the members too. I hope you'll be a productive member here. If you just want to troll and pick fights though, I hope you'll go to another forum that supports that type of behavio . There are plenty of them.

O

Not trying to pick a fight at all. Just trying to contribute honesty and genuinely. If people choose to take offence that's up to them. my greatest fear is that one day I won't be able to hunt in places like Africa because short sightedness ruined it for the next generation. Robust discussion is healthy. Name calling isn't and it tends to indicate a weak argument.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

You are an American? I doubt it would have much to do with you. Deleting posts because you don't agree with it is censorship. Land of the brave, home of the free. NOT!

Mr. Jones,

I've not really paid too much attention to your posts including apparently one that had to do with a buffalo hunt in a small area. I have no idea what was or wasn't said. What I do know is:

1) @billc is someone on this board that I have often not seen eye to eye with. So this reply has nothing to do with him, Bill can defend himself.

2) I suffer lack of facts poorly. Australia banned lion imports in February, 2015. Cecil was killed in July, 2015. So get your facts straight before spouting off and spreading misinformation. For your reference:

http://www.four-paws.us/news-and-pr...tralia-bans-imports-of-lion-hunting-trophies/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Cecil_the_lion

3) AH is a privately owned business. Your participation and/or use of this website is granted by the business owner. It is not a right, it is a privilege. I believe strongly in the rights of the individual including how that individual decides to run his business. You don't like being censored by the business owner, boo f'ing hoo.

4) I count at least two Australian members of AH as friends. One of which I have had the distinct pleasure of meeting in person a couple of times. An absolutely great gent with an absolutely wonderful wife. They represent your country well. You coming on here and spouting bullshit about my country after a few posts having a go with one of it's members as well as the owner......well let's say I'm happy that you are apparently an exception to those Aussies I've met.

5) I had a stroke of good thinking a number of years ago and decided to try and organize a dinner where AH members could meet during the Dallas Safari Club convention. I'm proud to say that event has grown to where this year over 100 people attended. I like to think I'm quite welcoming to new members and that is just a reflection of the friendliness of this truly international community. But if you don't like it here, please don't let the door hit you in your smart ass as you leave.

 

[Royal27]

Nothing wrong with robust discussion Andrew.. You'll find a lot of it here, with manners, even when discussion is heated (as a general rule, there are always exceptions). You'll get your point across much better if you use them (manners that is).

If you don't use them consistently you won't last long here as you've already been warned. This is a private website, there is no "freedom of speech." Break the published rules consistently and you'll be banned. The call is yours.

 

[K-man]

I'm not going to get along with you cheque book Hunters. As a ph said to me once, "hunting is the only sport that you don't have to be good at to be successful, you just pay someone else to be good at it."

do us all a favor and self-ban. Wait, it's obvious you have no filter between your brain and your fingertips.

 

[dobber]

cheque book hunters? pfft you are a rude silly little man

bye

 

[brandondd24]

So your ph was saying he was glad to get your money

 

[IdaRam]

I'm not going to get along with you cheque book Hunters. As a ph said to me once, "hunting is the only sport that you don't have to be good at to be successful, you just pay someone else to be good at it."

Have you ever stopped to consider this PH you refer to may have been talking about you, not to you?
If you had an ounce of humility you might have taken more than six days to get to know the folks here and form an opinion of us "cheque book hunters".

 

[brandondd24]

Wow! All I can say, if you think that's ah members you are mistaken sir

 

[Royal27]

For those interested AH has a pretty cool and rarely used feature. It's called "ignore. " usually only useful for anti trolls when the mods can't get to them fast enough.

It works simply. Click on a user's profile. Then click ignore. After that all of the simply goes away.

It made me feel better,

 

[brandondd24]

Andrew I appreciate your passion, just try to be more civil, it would help. Everyone has an opinion each there own, sometimes better not to speak those opinions

 

[Wheels]

For those interested AH has a pretty cool and rarely used feature. It's called "ignore. " usually only useful for anti trolls when the mods can't get to them fast enough.

It works simply. Click on a user's profile. Then click ignore. After that all of the simply goes away.

It made me feel better,

Thanks. Now I know how to get rid of you.

 

[Andrew Jones]

Andrew I appreciate your passion, just try to be more civil, it would help. Everyone has an opinion each there own, sometimes better not to speak those opinions

No problems, I will adjust my approach but if someone takes a swing what would you do. Thanks for not getting personal.

 

[Royal27]

Thanks. Now I know how to get rid of you.

Too late I'm in Texas now and @K-man said he'd show me where you live.

 

[daved]

Let me make it easy for you.

If you have :
A) shot an animal from a vehicle
B) shot an animal behind wire without a reasonable chance of escape
C) released an animal (eg lion) for the purpose of hunting that animal.
D) done your hunting from the vehicle rather than walking
E) bragged about how far you can shoot an animal from
F) shown little respect for something you have shot
G) hunted with a spotlight

You are not a hunter.
You are on a shopping trip and relying on someone else to shoulder the responsibility. This is why the public by and large detest trophy hunting.
Wake up.

..... can I add support illegal hunting by knowing supporting and hunting without a registered Profesional hunter.

 

[Mekaniks]

Let me make it easy for you.

If you have :
A) shot an animal from a vehicle
B) shot an animal behind wire without a reasonable chance of escape
C) released an animal (eg lion) for the purpose of hunting that animal.
D) done your hunting from the vehicle rather than walking
E) bragged about how far you can shoot an animal from
F) shown little respect for something you have shot
G) hunted with a spotlight

You are not a hunter.
You are on a shopping trip and relying on someone else to shoulder the responsibility. This is why the public by and large detest trophy hunting.
Wake up.

So it's not ok with you if I hunt with a spotlight if it's legal? But your all good with me hunting without a PH even if that it illegal?? Hmmm me smells BS....