Hard hunting

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I want to expect challenging hunting, busted stalks, physical effort, and pride in a well-placed, hard-earned shot.

You don't need to make it difficult on yourself. This is your hunt and your money paying for the hunt. Just start with this part of your original post that I quoted. Tell them what you want and expect out of a hunt and then gauge from there by their reaction if you are getting a good feel that they will provide it.

Yes there are whack 'em and stack 'em outfitters out there, but not all are like this.

 

[Green Chile]

Read my recent hunt report from the EC. 1/2 million acres private and I guarantee the hills and canyons will challenge you. Shots can be very long (600+) or 200 on the short side of things. Elevation was around 6k and the Vaal rhebok and mountain reedbuck were super skittish. If they see you at 300 they will run a long ways. Anyone can pop a target of opportunity but try to get a shot on one specific animal in those vertical canyons full of brush. That's where the bushbuck live. EC is a good test of boot leather, shooting skills and mental toughness. If you want more info on that location, send me a DM.

 

[318AE]

Well, it’s good to see a thread that’s not about the nuances of caliber or cartridge.

I think a lot of this starts with the fact that many clients are collectors and have a list, which might be some type of “slam”, an SCI “x of the world”, all the color variants of springbuck, or the big five. I’m not begrudging this (there’s room in the tent for everyone), I’ve just seen this very often in the last 30 years. This easily becomes an outcome (vs activity) orientation, which is easy for a PH to understand and monetize. I’ve met too many PHs that are ingrained with this approach, likely from the many clients that have it.

Its close sibling is “what’s the biggest “x” you have?”, implying if you have shot a 55” kudu you would take a 56” but not a 54”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked this by PH’s, and their dismay when I actually don’t know.

You’ve gotten some good advice already, from 375Fox and others, about how to tell if you can turn into an activity orientation, if you really want to put in more effort and likely come back with less
- Check references, read hunt reports
- A younger PH may have less experience, but will be less likely to be burnt out. Make sure the PH is more fit than you are.
- Tougher terrain and thicker bush generally makes for a more challenging hunt
- I think higher daily fees and lower trophy fees (in balance to one another), places more emphasis on the hunt vs the kill
- Ask whether all the animals are indigenous to the specific area you are hunting
- Make sure you meet the PH you will actually be hunting with - a lot can get lost in translation
- Of course, be candid and direct with your prospective PH about your desires and expectations; even with this, results can be mixed, the outcome orientation runs deep in many

Good luck!

 

[BRICKBURN]

@JGH
I truly hope you arrange the kind of hunt you want.

If you want to make it difficult for yourself.
ADD DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF DAYS ie. 14. to foster some success.
Get out and Walk.
Stay out of Blinds
Use a Bow - if you are excellent with it.
If you want to hunt Caracal, get up with the Houndsman in the dark and chase the pack.
Restrict your rifle shots to under 100 yards on a Springbok. etc.
Bow hunt a Vaal Rhebok or again restrict yourself to under 100 yards shots with the rifle.
Have a look at some Sickel bos and acacia thorns and see if you really want to go through that.

Over all:
You can expect minimal need for trophy shipping.

South Africa is a large country with more ecological diversity than you can even imagine.
Overlay the EC province map on this biome map. Look at the diversity.
Ocean side vleis to and pasture to literal mountain climbing can be experienced.

I have been hunted along the oceans and as high as the Drakensberg will take me. Crawling through thickets of thorn bearing bushes that rip you to shreds and climbing mountains thousands of feet up and having my lungs burn.

Pick your hunt and have a great time. Don't make it too tough though.

 

[MarkB]

As others state its your hunt, investigate and communicate what you desire. I did safari different, started in Zim twice for DG and PG, no fences, no names of known animals and NO fences, then Namibia again DG and all the endemic PG. All those hunts were great, hard walking, stalking, getting wind perfect, up early and out then back at camp late evening for meals, sundowner's then bed and all for truly wild born on property animals. NO PH knew exactly where the desired animal was, only that they were on their 50 km square properties and we had to find them.

Then I did a 21 day, 5 area SA hunt. Much more relaxed, no early mornings, wind who cared?, gate openings and PH knew where most target species were. Spent more time in camp on that safari than the 5 others before. We did hunt some none fenced wild free ranging animals, but still not "wild" as other country's.

Its your first safari so all should be amazing and eye opening, no comparison to NA hunts. More animals and shots fired on a safari than years of NA hunting. Just know that expect 1 or 2 species per day on safari. In BC here I hunt for a month per specie, no comparisons to Africa, wild Zim/Namibia or fenced SA.

Be up front with outfitters with your wants, if any outfitter fails to answer specifically your questions delete outfit from possible list.

You should be able to get the hunt you desire, SA has many outfits that cater to all types of hunts.

Good luck.

MB

 

[mark-hunter]

How satisfied have you been with the intensity of hunting effort in South Africa?

I'm planning a first safari, and I may be giving in to preconceived notions about "ranch hunts." How challenging can an East Cape hunt be? What are some reasonable expectations?

A better question: What is the range of difficulty that an outfitter can work within?

I want to expect challenging hunting, busted stalks, physical effort, and pride in a well-placed, hard-earned shot.

Follow up question: How best to open this topic with prospective outfitters? Will they like this? Or is more challenge just harder work for them?

If a fenced area is under hunting pressure do not bee surprised if animals are spooky, and hard to offer a shot opportunity.

I would say, just go. Do not worry too much.
On your question you can never be 100% certain.

 

[coreydb]

African hunting is verrrry different from that in the States. You'll spend more time traveling in a truck than walking. It's spot then stalk.

 

[mark-hunter]

I want to expect challenging hunting, busted stalks, physical effort, and pride in a well-placed, hard-earned shot.

If you do not collect all the animals from the list, would you still consider a hunt to be successful?

General plains game safari in Namibia and South Africa, 5 to 7 animals, is 99-100% successful.

The success (or challenge) will largely depend on your skill to shoot.
Which means, standing from stick up to 200 meters.

It is 99% that PH will bring you to shooting position.

I have witnessed a group of less skilled hunters having about 20% of wounded and lost rate. (In Namibia). and trophy fees paid for. (the total value lost was more than 10k)
Shooting skill, in my opinion is the main thing. For such groop, the shooting was challenge.

That is also in my opinion an industry taboo: hunters will not brag about it, outfitters and booking agents will not advertise this.
(You know: our last group had loss rate of 20% but you do not worry, just come over, book and hunt with us, you will be better for sure, lets hope for the best... )

But if and when you know how to shoot, there are still hard hunts, not always successful, and not guaranteed. Bongo, Leopard, mountain nyala.
Aardvark, aardwolf, serval maybe, rarely hunted, rarely reported on the forum.
Cheetah, not territorial, doesnt come on bait, hard to plan, hard to hunt for that reason.
Some of them will be one animal safari. Either you get it, or not.

Baboon is my huckleberry.
Baboon was never my priority, but I always wanted to take one.
On each consecutive safari I had other priorities, but last day or two I would try for baboon. And failed.
Safari number 4 I missed. In 4 safaris I had enough challenges with baboons.
I got baboon on safari no. 5.

I would say this:
Go to South Africa. Enjoy. You want to make "hard hunt", for second safari choose some species known to be difficult.

I have been 3 times on Plains game hunt, and 2 times on DG hunt. Of those: 4 times in Namibia, and once in Zimbabwe.
In Namibia I had busted stalks on various PG, but than we tried again next day. (mixed type of hunts fenced and unfenced) but the plains game was in abundance, everywhere.

In Zim, I had busted stalks, but hard to get a second chance on same species, due to terrain and animals being spread around and spooky. You bust a stalk once, it is a question if you will see the same species again.

So the next question is also are you flexible?
If not getting a kudu, would you be happy with something else like zebra?

 

[uplander01]

It’s all fun but there is a difference between wilderness and ranches. It was summed up quite well by MarkB on a previous post. Wild country is usually more expensive and there are more unknown variables but if the ph has hunted the area a while they do still kinda know where animals hang out. Where I have hunted wild country there are also more chance encounters with the big five and tends to feel a bit more like what you read about in old books.

I’ve hunted large ranches, next to another large ranch, connected to another large ranch, huge areas, but we still spent a lot of time driving by fences and going through gates, I don’t like that personally.

 

[375Fox]

As others state its your hunt, investigate and communicate what you desire. I did safari different, started in Zim twice for DG and PG, no fences, no names of known animals and NO fences, then Namibia again DG and all the endemic PG. All those hunts were great, hard walking, stalking, getting wind perfect, up early and out then back at camp late evening for meals, sundowner's then bed and all for truly wild born on property animals. NO PH knew exactly where the desired animal was, only that they were on their 50 km square properties and we had to find them.

Then I did a 21 day, 5 area SA hunt. Much more relaxed, no early mornings, wind who cared?, gate openings and PH knew where most target species were. Spent more time in camp on that safari than the 5 others before. We did hunt some none fenced wild free ranging animals, but still not "wild" as other country's.

Its your first safari so all should be amazing and eye opening, no comparison to NA hunts. More animals and shots fired on a safari than years of NA hunting. Just know that expect 1 or 2 species per day on safari. In BC here I hunt for a month per specie, no comparisons to Africa, wild Zim/Namibia or fenced SA.

Be up front with outfitters with your wants, if any outfitter fails to answer specifically your questions delete outfit from possible list.

You should be able to get the hunt you desire, SA has many outfits that cater to all types of hunts.

Good luck.

MB

I hope that kind of wounding rate isn’t common. I’ve taken a couple hundred big game animals deer and up. I’ve only ever wounded and lost a buffalo. I wounded and lost 1 roe buck that was found the next day.

 

[Bos en Dal SAFARIS]

As been said it is your hunt and most outfitters will adapt to your style of hunting. @BRICKBURN gave great advise on how to increase the technicallity of your hunt, by putting some simple objectives in place.

The terrain will play a major role in how difficult the hunt can be, as well as the outfitters willingness.

Game in South Africa is plenty full, but restrict yourself to clean kills at lower distances, refrain from blinds, and get the PH's boots in the dirt, jse the land cruiser only to move to different areas and you will have blood and sweat on every trophy you take.

Expect less animals for the hunting days you select. Manage expectations and then come and have fun

Regards

 

[Green Chile]

Well said @Bos en Dal SAFARIS.

 

[Muntjacer23]

Be careful about people telling you all SA hunts are not hard hunts because given I have been on no fence verses smaller acreage do not always tell the story. Two examples, I hunted with Tsala on their much smaller Limpopo property and hunted five hard days for my first buff up and down the Waterberg Mountains. With Game 4 Africa I hunted hard for my kudu again both properties were fenced but great hunts. I hunted with a nice outfitter but do not want to name them and had a great hunt on one of their properties but for the first time saw what a put and take looked like on another one of their properties and chose to take nothing from it. The key as with any outfitter/hunt is get references from AH members who HAVE hunted with them not the members opinion if they have not. I see too many AH members paint SA with a broad brush which has not been my or so many other AH members who have actually been on the hunt

I presume G4A isn’t put and take for any of their species? as I understand all their animals including buff are from completely self sustaining populations?

 

[Green Chile]

SA is too broadly brushed as easy hunting...or too many fences...but I have seen a lot of amazing locations in SA. The Waterbergs with excellent genetics and some very large properties...East Cape with 1/2 million acre conservancies that will wear you out walking and climbing...beautiful areas in Limpopo where your wife can safely relax while you crawl around in the thorns chasing buff and big kudu. SA operators have a lot to be proud of with their game management and ranching skills. Are there also a lot of places I would NOT recommend in SA? Of course...and that's part of what makes this forum helpful to others.

 

[Badjer]

In my 8 days in SA -- I did the enter gate- go to area animals were. A large heavily wooded and mountainous "high fence" area where we were up, fed, and in the field before daylight and didn't head back until after dark. And a low fence area sitting at a cattle pond waiting to see what shows. Many frown on SA, but it's not all bad. My thought? Attitude solves a lot. Decide to have fun over a "checklist of animals" hunt. You only get a first safari once.

 

[Rubberhead]

The good Safari companies are experts in giving their clients the experience they want. Communicate your wishes without being a pain in the butt and you will have a great time almost guaranteed.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I’ve hunted large ranches, next to another large ranch, connected to another large ranch, huge areas, but we still spent a lot of time driving by fences and going through gates, I don’t like that personally.

I was raised hunting publicly accessible big ranches in Montana. Still do it every year. Going through gates doesn't bother me. However, all the other traffic can ruin the experience, something OP won't have to deal with in Africa.

Last safari I was culling a specific cow buffalo on a relatively small property (+4K acres). I wanted to shoot something with the 404 I'd just finished building (didn't have time to get it blued), and already two very fine buff skulls on the wall in my tiny house so really no room for another. From my experience culling a cow on my first safari I knew this might not be as easy as it sounds. After that cow was down the herd bull came for us three times. It was a "lively" affair. The last culling proved less lively but more "hard." The herd wouldn't let us get close. If they saw that white truck two miles away, they took off for the thick stuff where it was impossible to get close (with that PH anyway). After the second day I suggested we leave the truck at the gate and hoof it. It was obvious from behavior of game on that property someone had been on the place shooting from vehicle. PH ignored me so as we drove through the gate I made it more of a directive than a suggestion. Finally that day I had a brief window where I could have shot the cow with a green tag as she almost walked into me but 1) she had a calf next to her and 2) PH was off by himself putting on a show trying to sneak up on the herd bedded in thick stuff. Can't shoot without his okay. Turns out property owner didn't care if she had a calf or not but PH didn't bother to get the full poop before we went there. After three days of pushing the buffalo around I knew it was hopeless. So we went to another property to cull a bull gemsbuck. PH was again doing his solo sneak-and-peek routine leaving me behind to watch a golden wildebeest bull (not on my list at all). The bull kept looking up the mountain to my right. Then looking my way and then uphill. I slipped out of my hiding spot to see what was distracting him and there was the gemsbuck bull looking at me. He had heard the wildebeest herd babbling and came down to see what the commotion was about. As soon as he saw me he took off. Not waiting for my PH's okay this time! Missed the same bull on the same mountain the day before so I knew he was a shooter. I put a round in the chamber and hit him in the neck on the fly. Shot him again in the boiler room when he stopped but he was almost bled out by then. The golden wildebeest I had been watching was actually standing on the other side of a fence (same property). It was still a fine day hunting in spectacular terrain. OP should not get too hung up about fences and gates. It can still be real hunting.

 

[Doug3006]

It depends on your notion of what a hard hunt is. There are hard hunts, and then there are HARD hunts. My idea of a truly difficult hunt, thinking in terms of climate, topography and wariness of the quarry, is mountain goat hunting. I walked, hiked, climbed and crawled on all fours for 2 weeks in British Columbia and never pulled a trigger. Busting Alder brush. Traversing shale slides. Sleeping in a pup tent. Eating Mountain House freeze dried “food.” The altitude was crazy. It was a blast.

South Africa offers nothing like this. What it does offer is an experience somewhere between a Texas estate hunt, on the easy end, and a mule deer hunt in Idaho, on the difficult end. You will access the hunting areas by truck. You’ll spot or glass animals for a final stalk. Or you may just jump a Kudu of a lifetime while driving a ranch road and get out and bust him.

If this doesn’t appeal to you, you might want to save up a bit more and book a safari in a truly wild area for Cape buffalo.

 

[375Fox]

In my 8 days in SA -- I did the enter gate- go to area animals were. A large heavily wooded and mountainous "high fence" area where we were up, fed, and in the field before daylight and didn't head back until after dark. And a low fence area sitting at a cattle pond waiting to see what shows. Many frown on SA, but it's not all bad. My thought? Attitude solves a lot. Decide to have fun over a "checklist of animals" hunt. You only get a first safari once.

Attitude does solve a lot but it’s not an excuse to be naive. There are a lot of outfitters, hunting, and practices I would avoid in South Africa. You need to search out what you’re looking for and identify who is being honest and who isn’t. There is a much wider range between good and bad in south Africa than elsewhere.

 

[MarkB]

I hope that kind of wounding rate isn’t common. I’ve taken a couple hundred big game animals deer and up. I’ve only ever wounded and lost a buffalo. I wounded and lost 1 roe buck that was found the next day.

Wounding statement was not me??

Attitude does solve a lot but it’s not an excuse to be naive. There are a lot of outfitters, hunting, and practices I would avoid in South Africa. You need to search out what you’re looking for and identify who is being honest and who isn’t. There is a much wider range between good and bad in south Africa than elsewhere.

Well said, a point many ignore. Diligent, detailed, specific verified due diligence and screening on your outfitter will enable the OP a far better chance at the hunt they desire. That honesty statement is huge, if responses have any sniff of "off" move on immediately. I know this from experience.

There are no guarantees when booking a safari, ultimately you are at the whim of the outfitter, time spent on outfitter verification provides the best chance to get the hunt you desire.

MB