Gun safe recommendation

[SStomcat]

All good points. Taken together—cameras, alarms, sensors, and the rest—it becomes a major deterrent. Add the fact that it’s bolted down and properly secured, and it would take significantly more time, specialized tools (hydraulics, cutters), and a high level of proficiency to either break into it or remove anything.

At that point, you’re really talking about a job only professionals are capable of—and one where the risk must be weighed carefully against the potential reward.
I feel quite safe with my small investment.

 

[atrious]

Buy something 2-3 times bigger than you think you need.
Box store safes are just eye candy, I can clean them out with a common tool found in most garages, circular saw with blade turned backwards.
IMHO an electronic lock is asking for trouble, a decent high end mechanical combination lock is the way to go.

 

[Major Bonkers]

Thunderbolt and Lightfoot.

Wonderful film.

 

[steve white]

Buy something 2-3 times bigger than you think you need.
Box store safes are just eye candy, I can clean them out with a common tool found in most garages, circular saw with blade turned backwards.
IMHO an electronic lock is asking for trouble, a decent high end mechanical combination lock is the way to go.

2-3 times bigger OR get an R8 with multiple barrels to save some room? Hmmmm....

 

[SStomcat]

Buy something 2-3 times bigger than you think you need.
Box store safes are just eye candy, I can clean them out with a common tool found in most garages, circular saw with blade turned backwards.
IMHO an electronic lock is asking for trouble, a decent high end mechanical combination lock is the way to go.

The point is that if you go significantly bigger than you actually need based on a 2–3 year outlook, you also have to deal with storage space, which may not be ideal. Additionally, the larger the safe, the heavier it becomes—and relocating it later will come at a cost.

For those reasons, I decided to purchase a safe that suits my needs now and should do so for the next couple of years. When the time comes—if it comes—I may simply add a second safe rather than oversize the first one.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Interesting video of a door install in a new build home. The door, particularly the hinges, don't look very robust.

 

[HankBuck]

Interesting video of a door install in a new build home. The door, particularly the hinges, don't look very robust.

@375 Ruger Fan - enjoyed that video, skilled instillation of a decent vault door and a nice large concrete walled room - might be every hunters “dream” type safe storage area. Certainly worth the money if “building” your New home from scratch. Many people have valuables that are Not measured in $$ dollars - family heirlooms, items with Historical meaning to them even if not high $ dollar value — some items are irreplaceable.

 

[Major Bonkers]

I agree with you, Mr. 375 Ruger Fan.

When I was doing my insurance exams, back in the early '90s, we were told about safe testing: a proper safe is heated until it is red hot, then dropped 40' onto concrete: this simulates it being in a burning building, and eventually the floors giving way, crashing through to the basement. The safe should still be secure after this treatment. I went to YouTube to see if there were any videos of this, but unfortunately not.

I did find Mr. LockpickingLawyer going to work on a cheap 'safe' with an angle grinder. It is fair to say that this safe would definitely not survive the treatment outlined above:

I think that a lot of the products marketed to home purchasers are like this 'Sentry Safe': simply made of relatively thin rolled steel plates. Other than the lock and bolts, the interior of the safe's door and walls are either hollow or filled with cheap expanding foam. An attractive paint job and marketing BS disguises the inherent flimsiness of the product.

Perhaps the answer is, before buying a safe, to look at a cross section of the safe or ask for a sample door or wall and then take a .308 to it.

 

[fourfive8]

Lots of good advice. Bigger is better, usually. Like any storage space- it will be filled to space available with all manner of things. None are 100% secure, including fire ratings. Avoid putting in basement as basements turn into vats full of corrosive liquid during a fire. When building or remodeling, consider built-in safe. Any safe is best kept discreet and out of view by casual guests or anyone outside the home.

 

[steve white]

My wife recently had me open--by any means--a small safe that belonged to her aunt. It took less than 60 seconds to hack the lock housing off with a hatchet. I was shocked, what a joke.
It weighed a lot for its size, but what did that matter? I then recalled that my great uncle Virgil used to cut up car bodies for scrap with a double bit axe!

 

[SStomcat]

IMHO-Everything can be broken open, given time and resources; it is just how much of a hindrance or effort is required to break open, in addition to adding a layer of safety from fire or other natural disasters, it is all about.

 

[JimP]

It would be interesting to see what safes if any survived the World Trade Centers destruction.

Given time a angle grinder should be able to take care of most of the gun safes out there one way or another. It just depends on how much noise one wants to make and how many blades that you might be packing with you.

 

[SStomcat]

It would be interesting to see what safes if any survived the World Trade Centers destruction.

Given time a angle grinder should be able to take care of most of the gun safes out there one way or another. It just depends on how much noise one wants to make and how many blades that you might be packing with you.

I have seen the relics of the World Trade Center buildings in the museum. It is remarkable to see large steel girders twisted into knots by the heat from jet fuel and the force of impact.

 

[HankBuck]

I agree with you, Mr. 375 Ruger Fan.

When I was doing my insurance exams, back in the early '90s, we were told about safe testing: a proper safe is heated until it is red hot, then dropped 40' onto concrete: this simulates it being in a burning building, and eventually the floors giving way, crashing through to the basement. The safe should still be secure after this treatment. I went to YouTube to see if there were any videos of this, but unfortunately not.

I did find Mr. LockpickingLawyer going to work on a cheap 'safe' with an angle grinder. It is fair to say that this safe would definitely not survive the treatment outlined above:

I think that a lot of the products marketed to home purchasers are like this 'Sentry Safe': simply made of relatively thin rolled steel plates. Other than the lock and bolts, the interior of the safe's door and walls are either hollow or filled with cheap expanding foam. An attractive paint job and marketing BS disguises the inherent flimsiness of the product.

Perhaps the answer is, before buying a safe, to look at a cross section of the safe or ask for a sample door or wall and then take a .308 to it.

@Major Bonkers - Agree, and you can’t get a cheaper junk safe the that “Sentry” in the video….it’s better then Nothing and especially in a Fire

 

[HankBuck]

My wife recently had me open--by any means--a small safe that belonged to her aunt. It took less than 60 seconds to hack the lock housing off with a hatchet. I was shocked, what a joke.
It weighed a lot for its size, but what did that matter? I then recalled that my great uncle Virgil used to cut up car bodies for scrap with a double bit axe!

@steve white - good point, an ax - especially a Fireman’s type ax - can open a lot and “chop” into most steel safes with 10 gauge or thinner steel sides (might take awhile and room to “swing that ax”)…so that includes most “cheap” (under $3500) Safes. You don’t need to be a career burglar with “Special tools” to get into many safes. But as others have mentioned - what are the odds you’re going to get burglarized (very low) and even cheap safes deter many burglaries so they are usefull. Deciding on the right level of security a safe should provide is a personal choice and people might spend more then they need to - just like buying a firearm— the cost can range from $1000 to $25,000—- $75,000+….. Somewhere in that range should be a Safe that will satisfy most. I saw a CHUBB safe listed for over $150,000 and while I did have some “safe Envy” (it’s the Holland & Holland of safes) it was an easy decision Not to buy that one - Couldn’t afford it and even if it was Free I couldn’t get it into my home (weighed over 5000lbs) ——plus it could cause a Divorce !

 

[Major Bonkers]

This YouTube video explains that these types of safe are actually a 'Residential Security Container', designed to resist one man with a hammer (weighing under 3lbs) and screwdriver for five minutes. Check it out at 3'10":

That does not seem a particularly onerous standard, and I would have thought that if the burglar can see that he is making progress he is not likely to stop at 5 minutes.

Incidentally, you get into a vault, or through the surrounding wall, by using a lorry jack.

 

[HankBuck]

This YouTube video explains that these types of safe are actually a 'Residential Security Container', designed to resist one man with a hammer (weighing under 3lbs) and screwdriver for five minutes. Check it out at 3'10":

That does not seem a particularly onerous standard, and I would have thought that if the burglar can see that he is making progress he is not likely to stop at 5 minutes.

Incidentally, you get into a vault, or through the surrounding wall, by using a lorry jack.

@Major Bonkers - that was a good video, informative and although clearly a Advertisement for Graffunder - it had some good information.
You are correct and most Gun Safes purchased are listed as ‘Residential Security Containers’ and that designation has a very Low standard as the video point out. However, the video did Not compare some of the “Better RSC” safes (even Liberty makes better safes with 3/16” steel) then the one shown and there are some that are significantly better RSC safes with much thicker steel including options for AR500 steel (resists drilling) and Stainless steel liners (resist torch). The best RSC gun safes can also meet the definition of a “B” or “C” burglary rating (even though they may not have the rating) - based on how thick the steel is on the walls and door of the safe ie: 1/2”steel plate in the door and 1/4” steel on all sides I believe = standard for a “B” rated safe. From what I had read and later was told by one of the popular safe companies (so this info is “suspect”) One of the reasons these safes don’t have that designated UL rating is that the company did not bother to submit their safe to UL testing because of the cost and time required to obtain those certifications. Also, the Fire Rating on most safes varies greatly - some rate 45 minutes at 1700 degrees and claim safe internal temperature remains under 275 degrees …while others may claim 60 minutes BUT only for a fire temp of 1200 degrees and internal safe temp reaches 325 degrees —- it seems very inconsistent and the testing of these claims may not be standardized and might vary —- I found t confusing.
High end Safes like Brown and Graffunder may have UL rated safes - they certainly have the steel thickness (1”+ on some models) and weight (3000-4000lbs+) that would be needed. They also have a much higher price than even many other very good safes ($20,000-$30,000). It is certainly a trade off and there are many options out there allowing someone to spend as much - or as little - as they want to obtain the level of safe quality/security they are comfortable with. My opinion is that overall it is confusing, subjective, and varies greatly. My approach has been to get a safe with the thickest steel I can afford, a decent fire rating, and still have the ability to have it placed where-I-want-it in my home.

 

[Sabre]

This YouTube video explains that these types of safe are actually a 'Residential Security Container', designed to resist one man with a hammer (weighing under 3lbs) and screwdriver for five minutes. Check it out at 3'10":

That does not seem a particularly onerous standard, and I would have thought that if the burglar can see that he is making progress he is not likely to stop at 5 minutes.

Incidentally, you get into a vault, or through the surrounding wall, by using a lorry jack.

This video seems like the lowest IQ version of a "comparison" I have seen. Let's take a look at a $26,000+ safe that weighs 5400lbs and "compare" it to a sub $2,000 RSC that weighs 600lbs. Then they don't even demonstrate all their claims they make about being able to pry into it super easy.

They obviously have a superior product. But, yikes, that video was lowest common denominator.