Good Gun Deals This Week

Further testing of all 50 bullets shows an overall average weight of 300 grains with all but 4 falling in the 299-301 range. Those four weighed 302 (3) AND 303 (1). Concentricy will be checked at the range!
 
And that 1.333% difference in mass between projectiles is why they are seconds. I wonder how concentric they are...

They will however be plenty accurate for big critters and lots of practice!

Or you could just buy a ton of them and sort them by weight.
 
Just saw this. Don’t know if it’s a good deal or not but it looks like a nice rifle at a better price than other 404s I’ve seen
 

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Just saw this. Don’t know if it’s a good deal or not but it looks like a nice rifle at a better price than other 404s I’ve seen

sold.

Add to that, I think the description is wrong. It doesn’t look like a magnum Mauser dumoulin action based on the bolt release. I think it’s a standard length action they crammed it into.

Postscript. It’s an A2000 action. A2000s are made in China. Sarco sells them for $295.
 
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:A Vomit: Yeesh…. I was not aware of this… Somebody is going to be sick when they find that out.. I sincerely hope my posting the link did not lead the buyer to it.

completely agree. If the gun was just 3-5 years older it would be an imperial magnum built on a real magnum action and worth about $8000.

if you’re interested in learning more about that action, Google dumoulin A2000. It’s pretty amazing they made an action in China, finished in Belgium, with a 3 position safety, trigger, and bottom metal that retails in the USA for $295. A three position safety alone is nearly $295!

But yeah, the guy that bought this gun is going to be furious when he finds out the ad copy was not correct.
 
completely agree. If the gun was just 3-5 years older it would be an imperial magnum built on a real magnum action and worth about $8000.

if you’re interested in learning more about that action, Google dumoulin A2000. It’s pretty amazing they made an action in China, finished in Belgium, with a 3 position safety, trigger, and bottom metal that retails in the USA for $295. A three position safety alone is nearly $295!

But yeah, the guy that bought this gun is going to be furious when he finds out the ad copy was not correct.
I will look them up. It’s hard to believe anyone would do such a thing..
 
Cabelas has notoriously ignorant people running their fine gun departments now (another blessing of the redneck - I mean Bass Pro- acquisition.) I suppose it is fair to note that sometimes works out in the informed buyer's favor.
 
Cabelas has notoriously ignorant people running their fine gun departments now (another blessing of the redneck - I mean Bass Pro- acquisition.) I suppose it is fair to note that sometimes works out in the informed buyer's favor.

True story. Ten years ago I offered to sell them 15 guns.

one of the guns was comparable to a gun being sold at Galazan’s for $29,999. They offered me $1250. I sold it wholesale to a dealer for $13,800.

Same deal on same day, they offered to buy two utility grade 12 bore boxlocks, a Mortimer and a Chas Osborne. They paid I think $2200 each? The story gets better. They listed them for two years for $3995 and I bought them back from the store for $800! I then sold them again for $2200 to private parties.

This was all when I was out of work caring for a sick kid when I needed cash and liquidated my collection. Still rebuilding it to this day with about a tenth the guns.

But anyway, that’s a long winded true story of the epic incompetence of Cabelas that can cut both ways.
 
completely agree. If the gun was just 3-5 years older it would be an imperial magnum built on a real magnum action and worth about $8000.

if you’re interested in learning more about that action, Google dumoulin A2000. It’s pretty amazing they made an action in China, finished in Belgium, with a 3 position safety, trigger, and bottom metal that retails in the USA for $295. A three position safety alone is nearly $295!

But yeah, the guy that bought this gun is going to be furious when he finds out the ad copy was not correct.
How do you learn to know this kind of things!

btw, little update, I was on a hunting expo this weekend. Finally got to speak the armorer of the shop selling the Vereecke, he showed me (and let me handle) a Westley Richards 577NE. Which was much heavier than that Marcel Thys I held a few months ago. Not for sale though.

Spoke a long time about that Vereecke .416 Rigby, and with a nod from my wife, we shook hands on it. Ended up agreeing with the ask, as it was a rifle from a deceased close friend of the armorer (who has been a PH in CAR and Cameroon for 15y) and it got emotional for him (didn't want to nickel dime it). I think he is glad it will go to someone who will be using it in the future and who is interested in the rifle's history. Also I want to ensure my access to the man himself for future opportunities (we discussed some things).

I'll go pick it up in a few weeks and then there will be some more pics incoming! Will make a nice companion heavy for my Dumoulin Centurion!

1653833491743.jpeg
 
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How do you learn to know this kind of things!

btw, little update, I was on a hunting expo this weekend. Finally got to speak the armorer of the shop selling the Vereecke, he showed me (and let me handle) a Westley Richards 577NE. Which was much heavier than that Marcel Thys I held a few months ago. Not for sale though.

Spoke a long time about that Vereecke .416 Rigby, and with a nod from my wife, we shook hands on it. Ended up agreeing with the ask, as it was a rifle from a deceased close friend of the armorer (who has been a PH in CAR and Cameroon for 15y) and it got emotional for him (didn't want to nickel dime it). I think he is glad it will go to someone who will be using it in the future and who is interested in the rifle's history. Also I want to ensure my access to the man himself for future opportunities (we discussed some things).

I'll go pick it up in a few weeks and then there will be some more pics incoming! Will make a nice companion heavy for my Dumoulin Centurion!

View attachment 468774
That is one fine rifle! Congratulations!
 
I spent a lot of hours combing the Internet lately hoping to post some "Good Gun Deals This Week" for my AH friends.

Instead, what you get is a rant. I saw a lot of guns that "were" (past tense) good guns and people irresistably ruining them through optic choice incompetence. Sure, you could unravel the bad optic choices but at that point, they aren't good gun deals anymore because their price tags would be $2000+ too high because of the damned optics and mounts you're forced to buy and then toss on these guns!

So here's the thing. The average gun owner is uninformed and when they buy a high grade or best grade magazine rifle they for some reason lose the plot. They do not understand the comb was masterfully shaped for rapid target acquisition and flawless sight picture with the iron sight arrangement. Thus, when bubba goes to Cabelas and says "sell me the most expensive scope and mounts you got" you end up with a ruined gun featuring medium or god-help-us-all high rings. It was the necessary evil to accomodate the non-functional astronomer's optic they decided to strap on top of their stalking or safari rifle.

Proper optics for best-grade stalking and safari rifles are few and far between. You need something that can be mounted very low so you have your face in relatively the same position as you would with the iron sights on the glorious rifle you own.

Some highlights from the world of stand-out optics you might want to consider:

#1 Stalking Rifle Optic available - The soon-to-be-discontinued Swarovski 3-9x36mm Z3. This is the last 1" tube optic in their lineup and boy is it a dandy. Very light weight, it has excellent light gathering, a long main tube for getting proper eye relief, and the ratio between the 1" tube and the 36mm exit objective lets you mount it very, very low. At an MSRP of $699 and availability in both a plex and a #4 reticle, this is the optic to hoard. Perfect on Rigby Highland Stalkers, single shot falling blocks, and others.

#1 stalking to magnum safari rifle available - The used but new in box Swarovski Z6 1-6x24mm EE (extended eye relief) and the Z6i illuminated EE of the same. With original MSRPs of $1600 and $2400, they were a bargain. Used like new ones seem to be selling for more than original msrp because they were the best there ever was. The 30mm tube with a straight exit objective making them ideal. The long length of the tube gives lots of flexibility for eye relief offset and their weight is moderate, less than the Schmidt & Bender alternatives.

#1 Vintage gun scope. The 1990s era Zeiss 1.5-4.5x18mm. This 1" tube optic had T-coatings and was the best optic made in its day. While its clarity and light gathering aren't comparable to anything listed above, it has an obsurdly long tube that makes it the life-saver scope for vintage guns. If you have a vintage drilling, double rifle, or mauser with some trashy broken scope that is already fitted into German Claw mounts, this is the only scope on the market that has a chance of fitting those existing rings which in turn saves you about $2500 having new rings made. Add to this, many times the original claw bases are so far forward nothing new at all will work for any price, meaning you'd have to hack away on your gun to build a new saddle or new plate into the quarter rib utterly ruining the aesthetics of the gun permanently with the obvious after-thought of a different optic.


As to mounts, there are several choices for ways to mount guns low. These are the ring and mount arrangements you can consider on a "good gun".

1.) Talley lever rings and mounts. While relatively cheap at around $200 complete, they have a low ring and they do return to zero. For a relatively economic mount, there is no better.

2.) EAW Pivot mounts. While they take tremendous effort to measure precisely and gather the correct bits and pieces, at $700-$900 they return to zero flawlessly and can be used with the broadest variety of optics.

3.) German Claw mounts and their corresponding ring or rail attachment. They are great, but they are custom fitted, run $2000-$3000, and you may never get another optic to fit if you decide to change out optics at a later date.

4.) The very costly and obscure. In the $3000-$5000 range you find Holland & Holland and Rigby side mounts. They are very clever in design and do not crowd the iron sights making them occasionally the only option that works and does not destroy the value of the gun if it is so precious you do not want to put a Griffin & Howe side mount on the gun which requires removal of wood and drilling holes in the side of the action.

5.) The $1600 Griffin & Howe side mount. The mount can be very low and never interferes with iron sights and its return to zero is legendary. Its a wonderful solution for American best guns that would fit with the aesthetic of an American mounting system.

When I look for "Good Gun Deals This Week" I'm looking for guns that either don't have optics and mounts, or have the above configurations so that the stock geometry works with both irons and optics.

Unfortunately this week, I have no gun deals to report, only hundreds of ruined high dollar guns that did not consider these things when they slapped expensive, bad decisions on their weapons.
 
I spent a lot of hours combing the Internet lately hoping to post some "Good Gun Deals This Week" for my AH friends.

Instead, what you get is a rant. I saw a lot of guns that "were" (past tense) good guns and people irresistably ruining them through optic choice incompetence. Sure, you could unravel the bad optic choices but at that point, they aren't good gun deals anymore because their price tags would be $2000+ too high because of the damned optics and mounts you're forced to buy and then toss on these guns!

So here's the thing. The average gun owner is uninformed and when they buy a high grade or best grade magazine rifle they for some reason lose the plot. They do not understand the comb was masterfully shaped for rapid target acquisition and flawless sight picture with the iron sight arrangement. Thus, when bubba goes to Cabelas and says "sell me the most expensive scope and mounts you got" you end up with a ruined gun featuring medium or god-help-us-all high rings. It was the necessary evil to accomodate the non-functional astronomer's optic they decided to strap on top of their stalking or safari rifle.

Proper optics for best-grade stalking and safari rifles are few and far between. You need something that can be mounted very low so you have your face in relatively the same position as you would with the iron sights on the glorious rifle you own.

Some highlights from the world of stand-out optics you might want to consider:

#1 Stalking Rifle Optic available - The soon-to-be-discontinued Swarovski 3-9x36mm Z3. This is the last 1" tube optic in their lineup and boy is it a dandy. Very light weight, it has excellent light gathering, a long main tube for getting proper eye relief, and the ratio between the 1" tube and the 36mm exit objective lets you mount it very, very low. At an MSRP of $699 and availability in both a plex and a #4 reticle, this is the optic to hoard. Perfect on Rigby Highland Stalkers, single shot falling blocks, and others.

#1 stalking to magnum safari rifle available - The used but new in box Swarovski Z6 1-6x24mm EE (extended eye relief) and the Z6i illuminated EE of the same. With original MSRPs of $1600 and $2400, they were a bargain. Used like new ones seem to be selling for more than original msrp because they were the best there ever was. The 30mm tube with a straight exit objective making them ideal. The long length of the tube gives lots of flexibility for eye relief offset and their weight is moderate, less than the Schmidt & Bender alternatives.

#1 Vintage gun scope. The 1990s era Zeiss 1.5-4.5x18mm. This 1" tube optic had T-coatings and was the best optic made in its day. While its clarity and light gathering aren't comparable to anything listed above, it has an obsurdly long tube that makes it the life-saver scope for vintage guns. If you have a vintage drilling, double rifle, or mauser with some trashy broken scope that is already fitted into German Claw mounts, this is the only scope on the market that has a chance of fitting those existing rings which in turn saves you about $2500 having new rings made. Add to this, many times the original claw bases are so far forward nothing new at all will work for any price, meaning you'd have to hack away on your gun to build a new saddle or new plate into the quarter rib utterly ruining the aesthetics of the gun permanently with the obvious after-thought of a different optic.


As to mounts, there are several choices for ways to mount guns low. These are the ring and mount arrangements you can consider on a "good gun".

1.) Talley lever rings and mounts. While relatively cheap at around $200 complete, they have a low ring and they do return to zero. For a relatively economic mount, there is no better.

2.) EAW Pivot mounts. While they take tremendous effort to measure precisely and gather the correct bits and pieces, at $700-$900 they return to zero flawlessly and can be used with the broadest variety of optics.

3.) German Claw mounts and their corresponding ring or rail attachment. They are great, but they are custom fitted, run $2000-$3000, and you may never get another optic to fit if you decide to change out optics at a later date.

4.) The very costly and obscure. In the $3000-$5000 range you find Holland & Holland and Rigby side mounts. They are very clever in design and do not crowd the iron sights making them occasionally the only option that works and does not destroy the value of the gun if it is so precious you do not want to put a Griffin & Howe side mount on the gun which requires removal of wood and drilling holes in the side of the action.

5.) The $1600 Griffin & Howe side mount. The mount can be very low and never interferes with iron sights and its return to zero is legendary. Its a wonderful solution for American best guns that would fit with the aesthetic of an American mounting system.

When I look for "Good Gun Deals This Week" I'm looking for guns that either don't have optics and mounts, or have the above configurations so that the stock geometry works with both irons and optics.

Unfortunately this week, I have no gun deals to report, only hundreds of ruined high dollar guns that did not consider these things when they slapped expensive, bad decisions on their weapons.
Thanks a lot for this @rookhawk ! You made me see the light before (pun intended), and I hope to keep on paying attention to this exact thing.

Spoke to a Swaro dealer yesterday. Inquired why the Z3 is no longer available in Europe, but it is in the US? "It's a different market" was the not very satisfactory answer I got...

Concerning the "Finding a good gun, but ruined with a bad choice of optic" topic. Do you think that some of these rifles could make an excellent iron's only rifle? Or perhaps just mounted with a little red dot on whatever the existing bases are? Re-investing in a whole new 'correct' mount and scope setup might just be too expensive indeed, but perhaps the seller could be convinced to sell without whatever amalgamation was strapped to it, thus decreasing the price. And then just use it as is. (I'm thinking of that Dumoulin .375 I once showed on here, where you mentioned that the rifle was good, but the optic way too high and it would cost too much to have it all corrected.

Small rook rifles, .375H&H and up rifles, single shot's might all be perfectly fine with just iron's anyway?
 
Thanks a lot for this @rookhawk ! You made me see the light before (pun intended), and I hope to keep on paying attention to this exact thing.

Spoke to a Swaro dealer yesterday. Inquired why the Z3 is no longer available in Europe, but it is in the US? "It's a different market" was the not very satisfactory answer I got...

Concerning the "Finding a good gun, but ruined with a bad choice of optic" topic. Do you think that some of these rifles could make an excellent iron's only rifle? Or perhaps just mounted with a little red dot on whatever the existing bases are? Re-investing in a whole new 'correct' mount and scope setup might just be too expensive indeed, but perhaps the seller could be convinced to sell without whatever amalgamation was strapped to it, thus decreasing the price. And then just use it as is. (I'm thinking of that Dumoulin .375 I once showed on here, where you mentioned that the rifle was good, but the optic way too high and it would cost too much to have it all corrected.

Small rook rifles, .375H&H and up rifles, single shot's might all be perfectly fine with just iron's anyway?


Without an optic but with existing mounts, its a terrible gun. It fails to have the function and utility of being complete, yet it fails to have the collectiblity of originality. It is neither good nor unmolested.
 
Vertigo,
Congratulations on that Beautiful acquisition, I am sure we are all looking forward to seeing additional photographs. Nicely done!!

Rookhawk,
A quick question, would not the “Smithson“ system be good enough to include on the “Good Gun” list? Like your overall synopsis though.

JP
 
Rookhawk,
A quick question, would not the “Smithson“ system be good enough to include on the “Good Gun” list? Like your overall synopsis though.

JP
They’re way out of my price range, but I have heard tell that they are awkward to use, almost requiring a third hand. And I believe it was Terry Weiland who wrote that the tolerances were so tight, the bases and rings almost form a vacuum making it difficult to remove the scope.

Now, if both of these issues prove not to be true, I’ll be a happy camper, because they are sexy AF, and I’d gladly put them on a “I won the lottery custom.”
23242A89-DD8C-4593-92AC-4D83E7D0EEEC.png
 
Vertigo,
Congratulations on that Beautiful acquisition, I am sure we are all looking forward to seeing additional photographs. Nicely done!!

Rookhawk,
A quick question, would not the “Smithson“ system be good enough to include on the “Good Gun” list? Like your overall synopsis though.

JP

@JPetroni I am familiar with the JP Smithson system. It’s exquisite of the utmost quality. Very obscure by virtue of it being completely custom, but yes it is amazing. Not sure how many guns exist with the system integrated into the square bridges but probably very, very few. No concept of what such a system costs, probably free with purchase of one of his $50k rifles?
 

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sgtsabai wrote on Tanks's profile.
Business is the only way to fly. I'm headed to SA August 25. I'm hoping that business isn't an arm and a leg. If you don't mind, what airline and the cost for your trip. Mine will be convoluted. I'll be flying into the states to pick up my 416 Rigby as Thailand doesn't allow firearms (pay no attention to the daily shootings and killings) so I'll have 2 very long trips.
Vonfergus wrote on JamesJ's profile.
I am interested in the Double
Nick BOWKER HUNTING SOUTH AFRICA wrote on EGS-HQ's profile.
Hi EGS

I read your thread with interest. Would you mind sending me that PDF? May I put it on my website?

Rob
85lc wrote on Douglas Johnson's profile.
Please send a list of books and prices.
 
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