Firearm maintenance: Stuff that works/Stuff that doesn't

[steve white]

Yes, nothing comes out on the Wipe Out patches because the Wipe Out is not doing an effective job of removing it.

A carbon ring is a build up of hard compacted soot for lack of a better descriptor, typically in the first 1” of the throat area. It is very visible with a bore scope.

A load that was known to be very conservative started displaying pressure signs and chronograph checked velocity started increasing inexplicably. That load was using 66 grains RL22, which I since have quit using.

Changing solvents and using solvent soaked patches wrapped around a nylon brush resulted in not having that problem again.

After a good cleaning with the Hoppe’s benchrest solvent velocity went back to the expected speed and the pressure signs vanished.

Buy one of the inexpensive bore scopes, they are a very useful tool for lots of things.

I’ll add one more changed practice, I mostly have quit using bore guides so as to work on cleaning the chamber and case neck areas as they also need cleaning. I am very careful pushing the nylon brushes into the barrel. Once the brush exits the barrel, unscrew it before pulling the rod out the bore end. Do not pull the brush back over the crown.

And please do not ever use a Bore Snake. They drag accumulated crud through the barrel and can alter the crown. Otis makes a nice plastic coated compact cable kit that is easy to use in the field.

Otis Universal Rifle Cleaning Kit

The Otis Rifle Cleaning System All Caliber is for firearm owners looking for a cleaning kit specifically for their rifles. The unique cotton patches...

www.midwayusa.com

Can you recommend a range of bore scopes according to price?

 

[Tex .416]

Can you recommend a range of bore scopes according to price?

$40 or less on Amazon works fine for this purpose. Look for one the has a side view or two views which is forward and side view. Check the size of the camera and cable. Some are 8 - 10mm, which is too thick. 5 - 6mm size is good as it will fit in smaller bores.

 

[Dirtdart]

Can you recommend a range of bore scopes according to price?

I have a Teslong digital borescope that I am very pleased with. Brownells stocks them and you may find it worthwhile to read some of the reviews. If memory serves my cost was around $150 all in.

I recently tried KG12 for the first time and will continue to use it for copper removal. It was deceiving at first because I wasn't getting that blue color on the patches I am used to with other brands. The scope verified that the KG12 was indeed removing the copper and much faster than what I had been using.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Boretech Carbon Remover - Wet patch down bore, and wet mop in chamber. Wait 10 minutes

KG-2 Bore Polish - A few drops on a patch and run down bore with reciprocal strokes until it exits at the muzzle. This is a mild polish that removes fouling from the surface of the bore but unlike a solvent it leaves the copper in the pores of the metal creating a smoother internal surface and provides more precise cold bore shots that are so important to hunters. After polish, clean with 2-3 wet patches using carbon solvent only and then dry patches.

Kroil - Used to coat bore for long term storage and rust prevention.

Extreme Force and Royal Purple Synfilm 32 - Both of these synthetic high temp lubricants are great for internal action moving parts. Resists carbonization in hot gas feed actions. I wet a Q-tip and apply this lube very sparingly only on metal to metal contact surfaces

I also avoid use of copper solvents such as Sweets, Hoppes, etc as they remove too much of the fouling in the bore which can lead to loss of precision. Avoid harsh abrasives in the bore. Avoid electrolysis cleaning as well as it removes all copper fouling and some of it is beneficial.

 

[steve white]

Boretech Carbon Remover - Wet patch down bore, and wet mop in chamber. Wait 10 minutes

KG-2 Bore Polish - A few drops on a patch and run down bore with reciprocal strokes until it exits at the muzzle. This is a mild polish that removes fouling from the surface of the bore but unlike a solvent it leaves the copper in the pores of the metal creating a smoother internal surface and provides more precise cold bore shots that are so important to hunters. After polish, clean with 2-3 wet patches using carbon solvent only and then dry patches.

Kroil - Used to coat bore for long term storage and rust prevention.

Extreme Force and Royal Purple Synfilm 32 - Both of these synthetic high temp lubricants are great for internal action moving parts. Resists carbonization in hot gas feed actions. I wet a Q-tip and apply this lube very sparingly only on metal to metal contact surfaces

I also avoid use of copper solvents such as Sweets, Hoppes, etc as they remove too much of the fouling in the bore which can lead to loss of precision. Avoid harsh abrasives in the bore. Avoid electrolysis cleaning as well as it removes all copper fouling and some of it is beneficial.

Regarding your comment about Royal Purple, "resists carbonization"....do you think that may be an overlooked key to bore maintenance, that SOME products, even powder choices could be the biggest factor in how much carbon buildup we have to fight? Interesting that Waffenfett, used by the Swiss, left such pristine bores over time. I don't read anywhere that they were fighting carbon buildup, like we are doing today.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Regarding your comment about Royal Purple, "resists carbonization"....do you think that may be an overlooked key to bore maintenance, that SOME products, even powder choices could be the biggest factor in how much carbon buildup we have to fight? Interesting that Waffenfett, used by the Swiss, left such pristine bores over time. I don't read anywhere that they were fighting carbon buildup, like we are doing today.

First, I did not use the synfilm oils in the bore of the rifles. It is only to lube the moving parts and then only very sparingly. When I hunt Africa I use no lube to resist dust clinging in the action. The only benefit to oils that do not carbonize readily or at least at higher temps is when applied to semi-auto and full auto type rifles such as AR15, etc which blast combustion gases into the action and can foul with carbon easily. That is not really applicable to African hunting.

Agree that powder choices do affect fouling and carbon buildup but that is only a choice if you reload. I refuse to reload for hunting rifles since I simply do not shoot one hunting rifle enough to justify the time and expense and modern factory ammo is very very good.

As for Waffenfett or Waffenöl? - the English translation from Swiss Deutsch is Weapon Grease or Gun Oil. It is a generic term that can be applied to many branded products. Did you have a specific product in mind?

Even so, I was not advocating a pristine, squeaky clean bore. I believe that some copper fouling is beneficial as long as it is only in the pores of the bore and not on the bearing surface. You want to clean the surface with a gentle scrubbing action but fill in the pores to create a smoother inner bearing surface. Imagine the inner surface of your barrel as a paved highway. But, the surface is pok-marked with microscopic pot holes. After shooting several rounds during breakin, those holes fill-in with copper, but excess copper can build up on top of that. We want to scour away the excess but leave the pot holes filled to achieve that desirable smooth surface. If you use an aggressive solvent, it removes all or most of the copper, even the copper that filled in the holes. Then you have to start all over again.

 

[Tex .416]

Regarding your comment about Royal Purple, "resists carbonization"....do you think that may be an overlooked key to bore maintenance, that SOME products, even powder choices could be the biggest factor in how much carbon buildup we have to fight? Interesting that Waffenfett, used by the Swiss, left such pristine bores over time. I don't read anywhere that they were fighting carbon buildup, like we are doing today.

Some of the Alliant Reloder powders definitely seem to be more likely to cause the severe carbon problems. Never had any trouble with Hodgdon or Accurate brand powders, even in my “magnum” chamberings.

Regularly using a nylon brush wrapped with patches soaked with the Hoppe’s Benchrest solvent cured the issue for me irrespective of the powder used.

 

[Sideshow]

Fairly

I use Eds Red (paint thinners and transmission oil) as soon as I get home from the range. I know it is not an aggressive cleaner but I think it takes out most of the crud and keeps the rest soft. I think carbon hardens up over time. I put a couple of patches through and leave the barrel coated with oil. Then the next time I take it out, I dry patch it. It always cleans out more carbon on this dry patch. I think time in the oil helps dissolve carbon. It also prevents rust-pretty humid for half the year where I live. I will then throughly clean for copper and carbon with more aggressive solvents when I feel the barrel needs it but I can’t remember the brand name on the bottles, the solvent dissolved the writing !

Have you tried CRC long life. It’s exactly for that type of environment. I do the same as you do with my barrels but with long life. No carbon no rust. When living in NZ you can watch rust form on your rifle as you hunt. This just leaves a nice film that protects. Inside and out.
Silica pads in the gun safe to fight the humidity nothing special works as a treat.

 

[Brandon.Gleason]

Butch's bore shine, if you can tolerate the smell.
Wipeout/Accelerator works well too.

I'm not a very meticulous gun cleaner, to be honest. I've found after shooting CEB brass bullets, my bores look nice and clean! Not sure if the brass has a scrubbing effect that helps clear out the past carbon/copper?

 

[thoma018]

I have a Teslong digital borescope that I am very pleased with. Brownells stocks them and you may find it worthwhile to read some of the reviews. If memory serves my cost was around $150 all in.

Second on the Teslong available thru Brownells (others also)--its a real eye opener !! I prefer the rigid model with the adapters for small to very large bores; you will be amazed at what you see.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Fairly

Have you tried CRC long life. It’s exactly for that type of environment. I do the same as you do with my barrels but with long life. No carbon no rust. When living in NZ you can watch rust form on your rifle as you hunt. This just leaves a nice film that protects. Inside and out.
Silica pads in the gun safe to fight the humidity nothing special works as a treat.

Apparently, the CRC Long Life product is only marketed in Australia and NZ or at least is not currently available in the USA. Years ago, I used and was very happy with a Birchwood Casey product called Sheath. It was amazing but they changed the formula to make it safer and less toxic and it was never the same after that. I have not seen it on shelves for many years. I would love to find an equivalent to it.

It was an aerosol spray had a sweet aeromatic petroleum scent and dried to a waxy coating that soaked into the metal to prevent rust. It could be wiped off but left a thin coating on the metal or removed with solvent.

I found a CRC product called SP400 that is available in the USA but have not yet tried it. Any of you chemists out there who know of a good option that is available?

 

[MacJenkins]

Butch's bore shine, if you can tolerate the smell.
Wipeout/Accelerator works well too.

I'm not a very meticulous gun cleaner, to be honest. I've found after shooting CEB brass bullets, my bores look nice and clean! Not sure if the brass has a scrubbing effect that helps clear out the past carbon/copper?

That is one another big+ to shooting CEB's.

 

[Choupique]

For everything except cleaning rifle bores, I've gone to zero gun-specific products for cleaning and lube, and had really good results.

My cleaning and lubricating product shelf now has lubriplate assembly grease, calcium based #2 marine grease, automatic transmission fluid, 15w40 motor oil, diesel fuel, carburetor cleaner and alcohol.

I do some dabbling in fluid specifications for large industrial equipment. Firearms are dramatically less demanding on lubricants than most machinery and also far easier to clean / keep clean than the internals of decades old neglected machinery.

 

[Tex .416]

I have a Teslong digital borescope that I am very pleased with. Brownells stocks them and you may find it worthwhile to read some of the reviews. If memory serves my cost was around $150 all in.

I recently tried KG12 for the first time and will continue to use it for copper removal. It was deceiving at first because I wasn't getting that blue color on the patches I am used to with other brands. The scope verified that the KG12 was indeed removing the copper and much faster than what I had been using.

The Teslong brand that plugs into a phone is only $65 on Amazon. Others that look suspiciously similar are half that. Pick any of them. They are so useful there is no excuse to not use one.

 

[thoma018]

For everything except cleaning rifle bores, I've gone to zero gun-specific products for cleaning and lube, and had really good results.

My cleaning and lubricating product shelf now has lubriplate assembly grease, calcium based #2 marine grease, automatic transmission fluid, 15w40 motor oil, diesel fuel, carburetor cleaner and alcohol.

I do some dabbling in fluid specifications for large industrial equipment. Firearms are dramatically less demanding on lubricants than most machinery and also far easier to clean / keep clean than the internals of decades old neglected machinery.

Have to agree with that, other than adding a bit of Kroil to the list, A lot of this business about gun care products is just that--business; just marketing, like about every other latest/greatest camo patter or fancy gadget/thing a ma jig that can be marketed.

 

[Choupique]

adding a bit of Kroil to the list

That's a good one too and reminds me I need to get some more. Kroil mixed 50/50 with ATF makes incredible penetrating oil as well for your stuck nuts and is a fair corrosion inhibitor. It is quite runny though, and if you store your rifles muzzle-up, it might flow down into the stock wrist. Something sticky is needed to completely prevent that, or just store the rifle muzzle down.

 

[steve white]

Fairly

Have you tried CRC long life. It’s exactly for that type of environment. I do the same as you do with my barrels but with long life. No carbon no rust. When living in NZ you can watch rust form on your rifle as you hunt. This just leaves a nice film that protects. Inside and out.
Silica pads in the gun safe to fight the humidity nothing special works as a treat.

Also recommended by Nathan Foster in his books, used for "shoot over" as well.

 

[steve white]

Apparently, the CRC Long Life product is only marketed in Australia and NZ or at least is not currently available in the USA. Years ago, I used and was very happy with a Birchwood Casey product called Sheath. It was amazing but they changed the formula to make it safer and less toxic and it was never the same after that. I have not seen it on shelves for many years. I would love to find an equivalent to it.

It was an aerosol spray had a sweet aeromatic petroleum scent and dried to a waxy coating that soaked into the metal to prevent rust. It could be wiped off but left a thin coating on the metal or removed with solvent.

I found a CRC product called SP400 that is available in the USA but have not yet tried it. Any of you chemists out there who know of a good option that is available?

Sheath was replaced with "Barricade"

 

[SaintPanzer]

Agreed on the Frog Lube. I thought it was "the answer", but it "gunks" over time. I actually "watched" the bolt move on my Mannlicher. Took a bit to get it cleaned up. It does smell good, though.

And there's the problem with Ballistol. Works great. In fact, there seems to be an inverse relationship between how well it works and how terrible it smells.

Hoppes #9 remains the go-to. My wife hates how it smells, but those memories will be there forever.

As far as high-carbon, an old trick from my Machine Gunner days. The M60 is a carbon mess, especially the piston. Local to where I grew up is a chemical company called "Castle". They make a carburetor cleaner called "Dragon Fire". Pulls carbon well, but leaves behind a light (very light) residue of PTFE. I think I had the only gun in the section that (usually) didn't jam.

When they were in business, they carried a small tub or red shotgun grease. By "small", think about the size of a tub of Blistex. In any case, I have two, and it's used so sparingly, I figure it will outlast me.

I use Renaissance Wax on a lot of things, to include stocks, my tools, my Hirschfänger, and my sword (long story).

Other "classic" oils like RemOil work for other lube "places". I'll even use CLP in a pinch, or maybe some LSA. Final wipe down before putting in in the safe is with a rag soaked in camelia or jojoba oil to prevent rust. Cleans easily, especially with that Dragon Fire. Or even Hoppes.

 

[RSL]

I use CorrosionX and Fluid Film on my saltwater
Penn International reels and rod roller guides. And pliers and knives that stay on my buddies boat in Orange Beach, Aladambama. And on my Ruger Blackhawk and ARs here in AZ. I have not used either on my M70 because of the wood stock. Not sure it would penetrate the wood or not. Any thoughts?