Eye of the beholder?

[Ray B]

For those who consider the European premium scopes superior to US premium scopes- could you please explain the categories in which they are superior and the metrics you use to justify your conclusions.

 

[Nhoro]

I think zero replies tells you the story. Most people can see the difference instantly. A few look at a distant object or the dark corner of the room and see the difference. But if you ask for the metrics and testing procedure then you are greeted with silence.

I would put Swarovski glass ahead by a small percentage. Light transmission is a percent or 2 higher and chromatic aberation (rainbow fringing) is lower. I generally do not see any lens distortions although American scopes can have a bit more tunnel vision ie clear in the centre but blurring towards the edges. I don't spend much time looking through the scope except to shoot so it doesn't bother me. But I cannot justify the price difference, I can only pick up marginal improvements that won't make a difference to me. However, Swarovski do not feature in long range competition, indicating to me that their tracking clicks are not as accurate for dialing. For me, Japanese glass is probably the best bang for your buck and if you do long range then stick with the brands that the pros use.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I have 3 scopes and 2 Swarovski binos, great stuff. Perfect no. Good yes. I don’t like the electronics in the eyepiece as Swaro builds them. It limits your bolt throw and many times you have to have higher rings than necessary.

I wish they would switch to a mid body design like many other companies have.

Japan produces many degrees and levels of quality . (Cheap to very high quality) It’s primarily the coatings that we notice the difference.

Kowa Prominar spotting scopes with Florite coating is phenomenal glass. Kowa is right up there with the German and Austrians.

 

[grand veneur]

In my opinion, the differences lie primarily in the quality of the various lenses used. That would also explain the price differences.

 

[grand veneur]

Otherwise, I don't know what would make a difference between the European scopes and the other high-quality rifles scope. The casings are comparable by all high-quality scopes, as are the mechanisms. Whether FFP or SFP, that remains a question of use and personal preference. Sure, we are excluding cheap scopes from this discussion.

 

[BeeMaa]

@Ray B - I've owned optics from wide variety of companies and learned several things along the way. First, I wouldn't trust anything from Vortex to watch cat videos, let alone anything as important as shooting or hunting. Second, looking through the likes of Swaro, Leica and Zeiss makes everything else pale in comparison. When you get to this level, it's how the colors look to your eye. The edge to edge clarity and light gathering abilities are nearly identical. A side by side comparison with the top three against any other scope will make it clear (pun intended) to you very quickly.

My wife and I spent an entire day at Euro Optic in PA doing exactly this. Having such a wide variety of optics available and the willingness of them to let us explore them as the sun went down made things very clear. We landed on Swaro scopes and Leica binos. My lone Leupold scope sits on my 22lr for varmints and plinking.

The last lesson. Buy once, cry once.

 

[Creigh]

It's all relative in one particular way. In the shop Swarovski glass and light stands out. You want to own one and you won't be wrong. Then I buy Leopold and on the hunt it looks incredible.

 

[grand veneur]

It's all relative in one particular way. In the shop Swarovski glass and light stands out. You want to own one and you won't be wrong. Then I buy Leopold and on the hunt it looks incredible.

That's not entirely true. I noticed very early on the wild that there as to be a difference between European scopes and others. When I was hunting several times in northern Canada in the early eighties, the US and Canadian hunters of the time were always impressed by the brightness of my scope. North American rifle scopes were unknown to me at that time, as they were hardly to seen in Europe.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

a definate factor in this convo should be durability
i fint the european scopes have great glass but are not durable at all, one or 2 knocks and you need to send them back to factory to get sorted
leupold is in my experience the toughest brand of scope, their hi level models glass is good, maybe not as good as swaro etc, but still excellent

i go leupold every day

 

[Philip Glass]

For those who consider the European premium scopes superior to US premium scopes- could you please explain the categories in which they are superior and the metrics you use to justify your conclusions.

You have never used a Z8 obviously.
Take the old Tasco (insert any scope name) and a Swarovski Z8 out at dusk and look at the trees especially the bark. See how much detail you can pick out. This will tell the story.
I have my own glass story (no pun intended!). My eyes were always 20-20 but they seemed to focus too quickly to properly adjust binos. I later found out this is somewhat due to dry eye. I used monoculars or binos with one eye shut to get by for most of my life. One day I decided to break the bank and buy some $300 Zeiss binos from my local gun shop. I had no idea what I had been missing. I could use binos for the first time in my life!!!
This is one reason it is a disservice to give kids sorry glass.
All the Tshirts and promos will never elevate any US brand to that of the top Europeans. It's just the way it is.

 

[Philip Glass]

@Ray B - I've owned optics from wide variety of companies and learned several things along the way. First, I wouldn't trust anything from Vortex to watch cat videos, let alone anything as important as shooting or hunting. Second, looking through the likes of Swaro, Leica and Zeiss makes everything else pale in comparison. When you get to this level, it's how the colors look to your eye. The edge to edge clarity and light gathering abilities are nearly identical. A side by side comparison with the top three against any other scope will make it clear (pun intended) to you very quickly.

My wife and I spent an entire day at Euro Optic in PA doing exactly this. Having such a wide variety of optics available and the willingness of them to let us explore them as the sun went down made things very clear. We landed on Swaro scopes and Leica binos. My lone Leupold scope sits on my 22lr for varmints and plinking.

The last lesson. Buy once, cry once.

Well said!

 

[Philip Glass]

It's all relative in one particular way. In the shop Swarovski glass and light stands out. You want to own one and you won't be wrong. Then I buy Leopold and on the hunt it looks incredible.

I do love my Leupold's as well. I've used them my whole life and now the VX5 and VX6 are on several of my guns. Man those VX5's are the perfect "working man's" scope!

 

[grand veneur]

a definate factor in this convo should be durability
i fint the european scopes have great glass but are not durable at all, one or 2 knocks and you need to send them back to factory to get sorted
leupold is in my experience the toughest brand of scope, their hi level models glass is good, maybe not as good as swaro etc, but still excellent

i go leupold every day

I cannot really say much about that. I have not had any problems with European scopes under hard conditions, in high mountains or the Arctic for example. It is certain that Nightforce seems to be at the top what durability concern.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

i use leica binocs, have swaro too as spares, both with rangefinder
i find the display inside the leica way easier to see for some reason

i agree with philp glass on binocs a 100%, u only know what you are missing untill u use a good pair.

for what we do with our rifles and clients using them(u will be surprised how clients treat things that arent theirs), we use leupold all the way, they can handle abuse

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I don't hunt in waning light or shoot long range so spending a lot of money on scopes never has made much sense to me. 3x Weaver on my 03A3 Springfield killed a ton of game over fifty years of service. It never failed and survived some incredible hard use. I eventually upgraded to a Nikon 3-9x mostly because it was on sale very cheap and because I changed styles of hunting.(mountains/forest to open plains). There may be slight variations in quality of what I see through more expensive scopes but if the cheap stuff holds zero, and so far it has, I really don't notice the difference when the crosshairs are on an animal.

 

[grand veneur]

i use leica binocs, have swaro too as spares, both with rangefinder
i find the display inside the leica way easier to see for some reason

i agree with philp glass on binocs a 100%, u only know what you are missing untill u use a good pair.

for what we do with our rifles and clients using them(u will be surprised how clients treat things that arent theirs), we use leupold all the way, they can handle abuse

Leupold scopes have become very popular in Europe, among shooters and hunters. I have used an older Vari Leupold scope 1-4x20 on my rifle caliber 460 Weatherby Magnum several times without any problems.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

I don't hunt in waning light or shoot long range so spending a lot of money on scopes never has made much sense to me. 3x Weaver on my 03A3 Springfield killed a ton of game over fifty years of service. It never failed and survived some incredible hard use. I eventually upgraded to a Nikon 3-9x mostly because it was on sale very cheap and because I changed styles of hunting.(mountains/forest to open plains). There may be slight variations in quality of what I see through more expensive scopes but if the cheap stuff holds zero, and so far it has, I really don't notice the difference when the crosshairs are on an animal.

the difference is this
we used to have some tasco scopes and yes they were fine and held zero
but when i sit at the range and shoot 100m or 150m i dont have to walk down range to see the holes in the paper, i can see then through the scope i am using, its the detail thats different, we can all see the oryx out in the open at 700m with our old tasco or nikon or bushnell binocs, but with my binocs i can see the rings on his horns and know if its worth going after it or not, the details are very different between cheap optics and expensive optics

 

[Altitude sickness]

I’m not a Swarovski fan boy by any means. I have used many of the top military standard issues. Nightforce, US optics, S&B etc.

I don’t own any of them anymore. I still own Leica, Swaro, leupold, Zeiss, Meopta, and have never had any of them fail.

My Swaro scopes have been on 2 week long Alaska drop camps, Africa, western U.S. mountain hunts. Zero issues.

I still maintain many of the issues People experience with scopes are from improper mounting. Too much bind, torque, twist whatever you want to call it. Will put stress on the erector springs, seals, lenses

 

[Dawg2019]

As one without any German optics, how does a lower end Z3 stack up to a VX5? Do even the less expensive options still have better glass and quality?

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

As one without any German optics, how does a lower end Z3 stack up to a VX5? Do even the less expensive options still have better glass and quality?

not in my experience, the high end leupolds have excellent glass, maybe not quite as good but definatley comparable to zeiss and swaro etc