Ernest Dumoulin side by side box lock

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by Riksa, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Riksa

    Riksa AH Veteran

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    Does anyone here know anything about Ernest Dumoulin doubles? I got an opportunity to buy a used one and the gun looks great. Are they reliable? Anything I should specially check? The gun has a hefty price tag, but if it's worth it, I will probably make an offer. Is there good second hand market for this kind of high end double rifles if I would ever want to sell it?

    The gun has it's current owner's initials with gold inlay engraving in the trigger card. Do you know if these can be replaced with my initials at a reasonable cost and in good quality? Or are there other options to consider?

    Any information would be very much welcome. The gun is quite similar to the one that is sold in Guns International at the moment (Link below).
    http://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...uble-rifle-470ne-caliber.cfm?gun_id=100799990
     

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  2. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Dumoulin builds excellent Belgian-made double rifles and guns which have an solid international reputation. Regardless of the make, I personally would not spend that sort of money without having the gun checked by a competent gun-maker. I have been around doubles for the last forty years, and I am confident that I can spot 90% with issues. I have no problem risking my judgement on a 10K investment. 30K is, for me, a different issue. Were it me, I would have the dealer ship to JJ Perodeau, if he is willing to do it, and have him go over it very carefully, and pay him his fee for the service. http://jjperodeau.com/ It is fairly easy to spot a gun off its face, barrels that don't ring true, etc. But on this level of investment, I would want the springs and pins inspected as well.

    A good engraver can do anything. However redoing initials on the trigger guard would be a meaningful expense. You would need to find someone who could match the current engraving, and I would anticipate six months to a year to get it back - perhaps longer for the best work.

    I personally do not care for side-plated box-locks. You are essentially buying a basic Belgian Anson and Deeley boxlock working rifle onto which side-plates have been added to provide an engraving canvas. Sort of like dressing up a solid working girl in too much make-up and a frilly dress. If a sidelock style is important to you, for that money you can find a used double rifle that is a true sidelock. I would also note, in my experience, I am not the only double gun fan who has a similar feelings about side-plated actions, which can make them a bit harder to move on.
     

  3. Rick Hill

    Rick Hill AH Senior Member

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    The first and most important thing about a double rifle is how does it fit you - same as a shotgun. When it goes to your shoulder do you have have to squirm or adjust your head? Bespoke. Think about what that means. When you touch off something with that level of recoil and only the bottom 1/2 of the butt is touching your shoulder, Ow does not begin to cover it. Take the time to visit somewhere you can pick up a few doubles and try the fit. The Vegas show and others are in a few weeks. Call some dealers - they will bring the guns to the show and you can fly in and out in a day and avoid an expensive mistake.

    Rick Hill
     
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  4. Bullthrower338

    Bullthrower338 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Risks,
    James Wayne is located in Victoria, TX. Fly to Houston or Corpus Christi and take a look at this rifle. If it fits you follow RedLegs advice and have it properly inspected. It is a beautiful rifle but like a woman, what is inside makes the deal worth it.
    Cheers,
    Cody
     
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  5. Rick Hill

    Rick Hill AH Senior Member

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    Cody is absolutely right. I know that rifle and if it was a lefty is wouldn't be for sale. Look under the trigger guard. The engraver is Veronique Grojean she also does work for H&H. James doesn't travel to the gunshows so you have to go have a look. It has been for sale for a while just waiting for the right person to pick it up. I started the FFL paperwork on another Ernst Dumoulin DR tonight and some day hope to find one of his lefty mauser action bolt guns.

    Rick
     

  6. Riksa

    Riksa AH Veteran

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    Thanks for your input!

    I should have been a little more clear with my first post. The gun I am interested in is not the one in the link. The gun is somewhat similar to that one. I am located in Europe so buying the gun from US doesn't make too much sense due to paperwork and extra cost related to it. But your comments have helped a lot to know what to focus on Dumoulin rifles. If I get to make a deal, I am sure to post pictures here :)
     
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  7. Rick Hill

    Rick Hill AH Senior Member

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    O. Lots more double rifle makers in the EU that the US!
    Make sure you get one that fits!
     
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  8. Dutch44

    Dutch44 AH Member

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    Rick is on the money with his advice on fit. Red Leg is also right on the money with the quality of the Belgian guns and sending to JJ. JJ studied under Marcel Thys and his work and advice is first rate. However, you are located in Europe and that is not feasible. I own a Verney-Caron (prewar) and Francotte box locks with all the bells and whistles in .475 No. 2 as well as a Manufrance 16 bore Paradox. The Belgian ( or French, if reputable maker) guns take no back seat to English guns, in my opinion.

    You will be pleased with Dumoulin as a manufacturer. However, I agree with Red Leg as to a side plate gun and resale value. The Belgian guns are generally found at a lower price than English guns and that's a great thing for double rifle owners if they take advantage of that fact in the market place.
     
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  9. Riksa

    Riksa AH Veteran

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    Thanks Dutch44. Unfortunately I was not able to agree the price for this rifle. I offered what I considered to be the guns value in Finland. I consulted a specialist gun shop and offered according to their recommendation. Unfortunately the seller decided to try to place the gun to an auction in US. So probably in the future this gun will pop up in US market. It's a nice rifle so hopefully it gets a good owner.
     
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  10. sierraone

    sierraone AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Sorry that the deal fell through for you Riska, BUT pay attention to the advice you received above. I know most of them and I know J.J. If I were to ever purchase a double rifle, especially at $30,000 plus, their advice would be accepted as the gospel from Moses himself!
     

  11. Rick Hill

    Rick Hill AH Senior Member

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    Another option if the engraving is done well is to leave it as part of the history of the gun. I have done this in the past and asked a jeweler to engrave my initials in a silver or gold alloy oval (they have these) that I have adapted to the stock and in-layed. If you don't wish to spend a lot of money you can use a silver coin (pre 1964 same as the good Winchesters) or a small ≤ 1 oz (silver) piece of bullion and hand shape to match the contour of the stock and in-lay it before engraving. Be respectful of the style of the rifle when choosing fonts and look for other examples. I think there is an article where David Trevallion did this with two ovals on a rifle with connections to the last owner. Those are the inexpensive options and a dealer can do this but that can be expensive. It is pretty inexpensive to do this and I hate to admit this I think it is way cool.

    Rick
     

  12. Rick Hill

    Rick Hill AH Senior Member

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    Come to a major gun show. You may not need to spend 30k. One of my most accurate doubles is a 458 win mag made by Ludwig Borovnik from Rock Island auctions (6k)! One pound of Tungsten in the buttstock made for perfect balance and decreased recoil and I made a leather covered recoil pad for a perfect length of pull. That rifle is in the I would trust my life with it club. Since you are in the EU there must be auctions you could attend. The fit is everything.

    Rick
     

  13. sierraone

    sierraone AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I am surprised that a $30,000 double has side plates. I have seen them on other double rifles and guns in the past, but never on something this expensive. My local shop had several double guns a few years ago that were Japanese made that he acquired in an estate sale. But they all ranged from about $3000 to $4500. They were all nice looking guns, just pretending to be sidelocks!
     

  14. Rick Hill

    Rick Hill AH Senior Member

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    Craftsman and craftmanship (Generic meaning M/F) are generally not respected today. The thinking with the more expensive doubles that have side plates is that the side plate is a canvas for the engraver. If you look, Dumoulin uses the same engravers as H&H! (Veronique Grojean). The ones I find objection with is when there is a clear intent to deceive such as with the lower quality Bernardelli; this not the Vincenzo Bernardelli which is a true high quality firearm. Some of the highest quality side locks are "pinless" (no externally showing pins) just for the engravers. There is an neat post that explains how to tell them apart.

    http://www.dogsanddoubles.com/2011/09/sidelock-or-boxlock-see-if-you-can-tell/

    Rick Hill
     

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