Enfield vs. Mauser

[Jim Golden]

Hi everyone,

Forgive me if this has been beaten to death in the past....but I did do some searching and didn't find much on it.

I would like to build another bolt action rifle. My first was a .375 Weatherby on a Winchester Enfield M1917 action. Essentially a copy of an A-Square Hannibal. But, from what I have seen, mine turned out nicer than those from A-Square. I really like this action. It's big, it's stout, it's solid, and you can build about anything on it. I am seriously thinking about finding another one to start with. The only downside is they do require a lot of machine work.

It could be argued that Enfield ripped off the 98 Mauser. Maybe they did. I see a lot of folks on here talking about BRNO Mausers, ZKK 602's, etc.

Between the two, what are the groups' feelings about one vs. the other?

I am totally open to finding an older Mauser action to start with. But, I have been also looking at the Granite Mountain Arms action, which looks really good to me. I am thinking of something in the .458 to .500 category for a bolt gun. Like a .458 Lott, .460 Weatherby, .500 Jeffrey, .505 Gibbs, or .500 A-Square. Whatever it is will go into an A-Square Hannibal stock and be open sights only.

But at any rate, I'm a huge fan of the Enfield, and I know Art Alphin was as well. But, is the 98 Mauser really better? Or are they so similar that it's a personal preference thing?

I like them all. My motorcycle buddies all make fun of me because I like Harley's and Kawasaki's. Ducati's are cool too. I like them all. Same with guns.

Thank you,
Jim

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Neil Molendyk]

Which Enfield action, the Mk 4 SMLE or the P14?

 

[Red Leg]

Which Enfield action, the Mk 4 SMLE or the P14?

He said the Model 1917 (P17). It was the American version of the P14 chambered in 30-06.

Hi everyone,

Forgive me if this has been beaten to death in the past....but I did do some searching and didn't find much on it.

I would like to build another bolt action rifle. My first was a .375 Weatherby on a Winchester Enfield M1917 action. Essentially a copy of an A-Square Hannibal. But, from what I have seen, mine turned out nicer than those from A-Square. I really like this action. It's big, it's stout, it's solid, and you can build about anything on it. I am seriously thinking about finding another one to start with. The only downside is they do require a lot of machine work.

It could be argued that Enfield ripped off the 98 Mauser. Maybe they did. I see a lot of folks on here talking about BRNO Mausers, ZKK 602's, etc.

Between the two, what are the groups' feelings about one vs. the other?

I am totally open to finding an older Mauser action to start with. But, I have been also looking at the Granite Mountain Arms action, which looks really good to me. I am thinking of something in the .458 to .500 category for a bolt gun. Like a .458 Lott, .460 Weatherby, .500 Jeffrey, .505 Gibbs, or .500 A-Square. Whatever it is will go into an A-Square Hannibal stock and be open sights only.

But at any rate, I'm a huge fan of the Enfield, and I know Art Alphin was as well. But, is the 98 Mauser really better? Or are they so similar that it's a personal preference thing?

I like them all. My motorcycle buddies all make fun of me because I like Harley's and Kawasaki's. Ducati's are cool too. I like them all. Same with guns.

Thank you,
Jim

Regardless of the machining necessary on those rear sight rabbit ears, the P17 really is an outstanding choice for a bolt action rifle intended for a truly powerful caliber. Art chose them for a reason.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Does anyone make a Model 70 type safety for the M17/P14? That would be the only problem I would have. With practice that would be easily overcome I’m sure.

 

[Flewis]

There is an out fit that sells actions all ready smoothed with a barrel on I think GI. Bad Boy maybe the name, for $800. Have several custom ones up to 585.

 

[Jim Golden]

Neil, I was thinking the Model 1917 or maybe the P14. That's what I built my other rifle on. Well, I say I "built" it. I did what I could, but know a really good gunsmith that did the lion's share of work on it.

Flewis, have talked to that gentleman. I may wind up getting one from him.

I have a call into Granite Mountain Arms inquiring about their prices for the African Magnum and the Express actions. I'm not sure what they cost....but I did see an "in the white" new African Magnum action on Gunbroker and the starting bid was $4400. Granted, I've seen guns sell on that auction site for more than you'd pay at the shop for a new one. But I'd imagine they're close to retail with that opening bid. If they're that much, I'll probably go with another Enfield. It is a beautiful piece, though.

 

[Flewis]

Does anyone make a Model 70 type safety for the M17/P14? That would be the only problem I would have. With practice that would be easily overcome I’m sure.

It seems to me, if I remember right some one did a long time ago. Most of the guys who worked on these actions are gone now.

 

[318AE]

I think I’ve pondered this same situation. Most of the aftermarket today is for modern sporting rifles. The limited parts for bolt actions (safeties, shrouds, firing pins, bottom metal, barrels etc) are mostly for intermediate Mausers, which are inexpensive and available, but are at best a compromise for the big pachyderm pounders.

A pre’64 model 70 magnum action would work well for a 458 Lott, with less fuss than many other choices of action and cartridge. However, I can’t imagine you would regret going the magnum mauser route - they get the job done very well.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Does anyone make a Model 70 type safety for the M17/P14? That would be the only problem I would have. With practice that would be easily overcome I’m sure.

@Wyatt Smith
NO the original safety is ideal and in the right spot.
Left as cock on closing they are very very fast to operate and the helical bolt lugs lock up like a bank vault as opposed to the flat legs on the mauser. The bolt locks down into a cut out in the action for a strong extra safety precaution. A lot of metal can be removed to slim it down or lengthen the action.
The old M17/P14 is a big action built like a brick shithouse that is stronger than the 97 Mauser.
That's why Art Alpin loved them.
Bob

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I just meant that I would not be used to the location of the m17 safety, and it would be easy to get used to with practice.

 

[CoElkHunter]

@Wyatt Smith
NO the original safety is ideal and in the right spot.
Left as cock on closing they are very very fast to operate and the helical bolt lugs lock up like a bank vault as opposed to the flat legs on the mauser. The bolt locks down into a cut out in the action for a strong extra safety precaution. A lot of metal can be removed to slim it down or lengthen the action.
The old M17/P14 is a big action built like a brick shithouse that is stronger than the 97 Mauser.
That's why Art Alpin loved them.
Bob

Doesn't the P14 have the larger (magnum) bolt face and the bolts are interchangeable between the two? I believe you mentioned this in another thread?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Doesn't the P14 have the larger (magnum) bolt face and the bolts are interchangeable between the two? I believe you mentioned this in another thread?

P14 Enfield was chambered in 303 British (.540 rim diameter) correct? Winchester M17 in .30-06 (.473 rim diameter)? That’s cool if they’re interchangeable

 

[CoElkHunter]

P14 was chambered in 303 Brit (.540 rim diameter) correct? M17 in .30-06 (.473 rim diameter)? That’s cool if they’re interchangeable

Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen stated they were interchangeable I believe. As soon as he awakes from his nap, maybe he'll respond? LOL

 

[Flewis]

As I recall they are interchangeable. It’s also very easy to open the bolt face, plenty of room.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I just meant that I would not be used to the location of the m17 safety, and it would be easy to get used to with practice.

@Wyatt Smith
I know mate it's just that I prefer the Enfields over the mauser.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

P14 Enfield was chambered in 303 British (.540 rim diameter) correct? Winchester M17 in .30-06 (.473 rim diameter)? That’s cool if they’re interchangeable

@Wishfulthinker580
They are interchangeable but the bolt stop needs to be altered to the best of my knowledge. I have changed them around between my rifles and they work fine.
Bob

 

[Jim Golden]

Granite Mountain Arms got back to me. Their actions are all the same price: $3250.
So, not as bad as the guy trying to sell one on gunbroker.com, but still a pretty penny. The old Enfield is looking pretty good again

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Granite Mountain Arms got back to me. Their actions are all the same price: $3250.
So, not as bad as the guy trying to sell one on gunbroker.com, but still a pretty penny. The old Enfield is looking pretty good again

Not to terrible considering their foreign counterparts that are functionally equivalent are more costly. English Mayfair actions start at $3800, FZH actions start at $3500. Other German actions just go up from there. That guy on GB is ridiculously high on everything

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi Jim,

Go for a GM action!!! Is a super and modern Mauser Magnum!!!!
In my opinion, the Mauser 98 basic design is better than the P14 or P17 ones. No matter what, I also like these two, of course!
Another option to consider is the BRNO 602/CZ 550 MAGNUM. Great magnum lenght actions !

Good luck!