Double rifles and Elephant

[Rare Breed]

I would prefer the 577NE for stopping power on a purely elephant safari.

In either case, I do not like the powder choices because you're enduring horrific recoil needlessly. I'd get both guns regulated with a powder like 3031 or RL15 that will greatly diminish recoil at the same velocity, allowing you a much faster recovery for the second follow-up shot.

Wisdom!!!!! My experience exactly!

 

[SRvet]

I could not leave the H&H at home !!

 

[50Gunner]

Adam Stevens, You're exactly right, the 577 is indeed a beast, a handful of 750gr Barnes flat nosed solids headed out the back door for quick point and shoot drills in the pasture is one of life's great pleasures, I would imagine that big Heym sidelock 600 NE Hunter-Habib hunted with is all that and a whole lot more.

Rafiki, great idea, I'll order another Graffunder before we go gun shopping, plus, noting you've hunted Tanzania, your next safari must be on the Moon, that would be most expensive, huh?

Kevin Peacocke, that's a huge part of safari for Wife and me, the miles in searing heat, sweat, dust, wind blown dirt in your eyes, thorns, all of it sir, when you cap that with a full bag with every animal on your list plus a few more in the salt, it's a done deal man, we will carry those memories for life.

uplander01, you bet he can, that rifle has integral quarter rib Express sight, integral banded ramp front sight and barrel band sling swivel, would love to only be a fly on the wall getting to watch those Craftsmen work, the inside of the action is polished glass smooth and shiny, bet it would feed solids loaded in the case backwards.

 

[50Gunner]

SRvet, I believe your Countrymen have made that near impossible to do, believe if I didn't bring the H&H i would forever regret it, about to turn 63, so barring getting hit by a Mack truck maybe time will allow several more Safaris.

 

[dgr416]

Walk softly and Carry a big stick as Teddy would say .Teddys long safari was one of the greatest Safaris in History .He opened the gates for others to follow .Those are both Awesome bully guns have fun shoot straight and stay safe .

 

[Rafiki]

The H&H all day long. How could you not? Dress the part, lend the whole experience every touch you can to make it worthy of the fine elephant you will take.

Yes, dress the part, Pith Helmet ant all.

 

[Tanks]

I'd be conflicted as are you. I always say biggest caliber one can shoot accurately. That being said, the extra 3 pounds adds up in the jesse. Not to mention getting the H&H back to Africa.

I'd be leaning slightly towards the H&H .500/450.

 

[Rare Breed]

I highly recommend buying a 15 pound cardio bar and take it on 6-10 mile walks using similar carries you will do in Africa and do it on hilly terrain. Do it in the heat for realness and then see how you do. This is the one thing I do that gives me confidence given I do this in GA in 90 degrees with a 100+ heat index factoring in humidity. This is when you find out what you can really handle.

 

[50Gunner]

dgr416, yes sir, he indeed paved the way for a whole industry that still thrives today, Thanks for the well wishes and will do.

Tanks, starting to think the same way, I have absolutely no doubts about the 450gr Northfork flat nosed solids at 2210 fps penetrating more than enough and dead line straight.

Rare Breed, earlier in this thread I posted about 11 miles per day with that very 577, wet dry river sand, hills and mountains, The M'barangandu reserve is known for it's very strenuous hunting terrain, granted that was in 2020, I'll of course be 6 years older come the fall of 2026, I am retired but bang around with farm work all the time.

Have cut, split and stacked 10 ricks of water oak and hickory on the back porch for firewood with 8LB maul, about to be 63, 6'2" in my socks, last weight a Doc's check was 236lbs, cardio as you say is indeed where it's at, I'll be more than ready when the time comes.

Only five Safaris under my belt, but near 50 animals with one shot each save insurance shots with solids at PH request, I aim to keep it that way.

 

[BJH65]

Sounds like you’ve already had some pretty strenuous hunts and know exactly what kind of shape you need to be in to be successful and you seem pretty fit. We’re similar in age, height and weight, I’m 60, 6-3, 228 and primarily do farm chores and outdoor stuff to stay in shape, my CrossFit days and weight training are long over with although I still do bodyweight routines and jogging.

For nostalgia, yes take the H&H 500-450 but sounds like you are plenty capable of carrying and using your 577 so that’s what I would take. When you’re a bit older, then take the H&H but take that 577 now, there may come a day when it’s too much! When we reach our 60’s I think we start aging in dog years! Besides, it’s not often we see African hunters taking a 577 Nitro into the field so the selfish part of me wants to read about it!

 

[Rare Breed]

dgr416, yes sir, he indeed paved the way for a whole industry that still thrives today, Thanks for the well wishes and will do.

Tanks, starting to think the same way, I have absolutely no doubts about the 450gr Northfork flat nosed solids at 2210 fps penetrating more than enough and dead line straight.

Rare Breed, earlier in this thread I posted about 11 miles per day with that very 577, wet dry river sand, hills and mountains, The M'barangandu reserve is known for it's very strenuous hunting terrain, granted that was in 2020, I'll of course be 6 years older come the fall of 2026, I am retired but bang around with farm work all the time.

Have cut, split and stacked 10 ricks of water oak and hickory on the back porch for firewood with 8LB maul, about to be 63, 6'2" in my socks, last weight a Doc's check was 236lbs, cardio as you say is indeed where it's at, I'll be more than ready when the time comes.

Only five Safaris under my belt, but near 50 animals with one shot each save insurance shots with solids at PH request, I aim to keep it that way.

Sounds like you are in great shape and ready to go. 11 miles per day in sand had to be tough!!!

 

[kpoynter]

Hey guys… question. Is the .500/.450 Ammo still made in production?
I’ve seen some of these H&H rifles and wondered if it was available or like the .450 3” (I think) basically stopped being made
Or…is it one of these that some ammo can be shot out of it?
Some of these old model calibers confuse me some as to what modern ammo can actually be run through (and safely with modern pressures)

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I believe Kynoch was the last source for commercially loaded ammo, and they have recently closed their doors. Original Kynoch ammo can often be found online for collecting purposes.

Bertram has offered brass, dies can be found, as well as powder/projectiles. Period correct projectiles are a bit difficult to find but they’re out there.

If you’re ordering a new production gun in this caliber (or one of the other more obscure NE calibers) from one of the big British makers you might be able to order it with some custom loaded ammo from them. After all, they’re going to have to regulate it.

If you’re interested in any double rifle, being a handloader is a necessary evil.

 

[Rafiki]

MidwayUSA has 500/450 #1 brass for $5.95/each

 

[jc_corley12]

Am sort of conflicted here, have a beautiful Holland Royal 500-450 Nitro with 26" barrels that swings like a bird gun, have also worked up a beautifully regulating load with 450gr Northfork flat nosed solids at 2210 fps over H-4831, the rifle is a spitting image of TR's rifle he used on the Smithsonian year long Safari, it's also just a couple serial numbers off his rifle.
The other choice is a mighty V\C boxlock 577 Nitro, also with 26" barrels, it's load with the 750gr Barnes banded flat nosed solid at 2076 fps over H-4350 needs no explanation, it is also very accurate.

With Ele, Lion and any other excellent representative of a plains game species will be on the list, the plains game, bait and cat rifle will be a beautiful Winston Elrod built 458 WM, he built it on a 1950 year model Winchester 70 375 H&H length action because he recognized the built in SAAMI throat length of the great 458 WM will let you load rounds to 3.585 inches.
It's loads are the 404gr Hammer bullet along with the excellent 400gr CEB #13 flat nosed solid, both loads clock 2600 fps.
The 404gr Hammer is already proven by me on Buffalo down to Impala, 20 to near 200 yards, longest animal travel after the shot was a 44" beautiful blue/black Sable bull, most all others dropped dead at the shot, including the Buffalo.

So, what double would you knowledgeable men carry for Ele? I can shoot both with equal accuracy, can also carry both just fine, even though the 577 weighs 3lbs more.

Thanks in advance.

Jesus, talk about your steak being too juicy, your lobster too buttery, your wife too oversexed, and your dog too good at finding birds why don’t ya.

 

[50Gunner]

BJH65, you're exactly right, same here, I remember the days when I had to be in pretty solid shape, putting two 45lb plates in a pack, then purposefully using bulkier powders in the 308 winchester that required a drop tube so one could sit and stand while charging each round with powder, put up 200 rounds of 308 would get you a good solid workout at the loading bench.

Pretty well beat up and banged up from that crazy old life, but, a very firm believer if a man gives up, quits, hits a chair, we are not long for this world.

Rare Breed, I wont lie, that hunt was very hard, it wasn't all wet/dry river sand, hill and mountain walking too, I remember one instance that made me feel better about my huffing and puffing, we were following a herd of buffalo up a mountain to try and sort a good bull out once we reached the flat on top and they dispersed, that herd actually stopped midway up the mountain, I heard one buffalo cough, they caught their breath then slowly started the rest of the way to the peak.

I laughed to myself, hell, these great animals live here, if they need to stop for a windbreak, I'm doing pretty good packing this 10 round shellbelt, Damascus skinner and 14.5lb 577 LOL, when I got home from that hunt, I pulled the recoil pad and removed a 1LB mercury recoil reducer, the rifle is now of course one pound lighter, can't tell a bit of difference in recoil, it still boots the crap out of you.

Gents, guess I was lucky when that Holland became available for purchase, it came with 100 new sticks of Bertram brass and a set of CH4D dies with shell holder, I still have 20 cases unfired and 4 loaded rounds left telling me I have only fired the rifle 76 times in the over two decades I've owned it.

JJ Perodeau gave it a good going over awhile back, he also told me he could build/rebuild any part in that great Holland sidelock action, we are ALL damn lucky to have a Craftsman like him still in business to keep our guns up and running.

jc corley 12, That's very funny sir, but true, I happen to remember in a former life being hanged for cattle rustling how rough that new rope was they used to stretch my neck.