Choosing a Double Rifle

[Dublinpiper90]

Ok, Ive been looking and comparing for some time now and I’m looking to prepare for my 1st double rifle, I’ve herd a lot of negative about rizzini, and Sabattis, I want a good rifle but it doesn’t have to be over the top with engraving and all just a no nonsense hunting rifle and I would like to stay in the 12k and under range , 2nd off as far as a caliber goes I’m torn between a .450/.400 3” or a .470NE I do feel like the .470 would be fitting as I would want this rifle as a buffalo gun primarily but also want a versatile r hunting rifle. I do own a .458 lott but ould probably pass it along once I obtain the double. Thanks for all your help in advance

 

[Tanner Lee]

I am in the same boat as you, been stuck between 450-400 NE and 470 NE.

Both will do the job for what a client needs but something that was brought to my attention which is why I am stuck between the calibers is ammunition manufacturer variety. From what I see Hornady is the only company in the US that manufactures 450-400 NE so if they stop then it will get harder to get ammo. While the 470 NE is very popular with doubles so many more manufacturers produce ammunition for it.

Also it does come down to what you want to use it for. The 450-400 has a more manageable recoil then the 470. Although the extra kinetic energy from the 470 can come in handy when stopping power matters. So if a 470 rifle is just a little more cost why’s then it is worth it.

I know many more people who have used these different calibers will have a far better opinion on this then I can. Mine is just the sum of asking a lot of people over the years.

I have a friend who uses a Sabatti in 450-400 NE, it works great for him. He did have to have it sent back to get the barrels re-regulated but it has worked great ever since.

 

[Dublinpiper90]

@Tanner Lee with that said That means we just need to get into reloading too lol

 

[Tanner Lee]

@Tanner Lee with that said That means we just need to get into reloading too lol

That’s what my friend recommends if I choose the 450-400, build up a stock pile of appropriate size for the rainy day.

 

[BeeMaa]

A used Heym would be an excellent first choice, but you will have a hard time keeping to your $12K budget.

I like the Krieghoff Big Five but many find the safety undesirable. Despite that, it is a wonderful working double rifle.

Finding a used Blaser S2 is another option, but again the same with the safety.

I'm sure @rookhawk will chime in with some do's and don't's. Because there are lots of them.

Best to keep the 458LOTT as a backup until you get your double sorted out. It could take a while to get it in working order and reliable, not to mention regulation. You do reload...right?

 

[rookhawk]

A used Heym would be an excellent first choice, but you will have a hard time keeping to your $12K budget.

I like the Krieghoff Big Five but many find the safety undesirable. Despite that, it is a wonderful working double rifle.

Finding a used Blaser S2 is another option, but again the same with the safety.

I'm sure @rookhawk will chime in with some do's and don't's. Because there are lots of them.

Best to keep the 458LOTT as a backup until you get your double sorted out. It could take a while to get it in working order and reliable, not to mention regulation. You do reload...right?

First rule of double rifles in my book is that you buy a double rifle with A.) Load data, B.) Provable targets showing good regulation, C.) Loaded ammo for that rifle. Whatever your budget WAS, if you can meet ABC requirements for 150% of budget, you're better off buying a known commodity with the loads than piecemail trying to get a gun to shoot straight.

 

[358 Norma]

Find a used Chapuis Elon 470 Nitro, they are really nice rifles! You won't be disappointed with them!

 

[318AE]

I think the 450/400 3” is actually a remarkably good Buffalo caliber - perhaps the best for Buffalo. I wouldn’t venture into a 470 unless pachyderms were being seriously contemplated.

 

[analog_peninsula]

I have a K-gun, and don't find the safety objectionable at all. I'll be taking it to Africa this July for the first time, and am looking forward to the trip.

 

[steve white]

I think the 450/400 3” is actually a remarkably good Buffalo caliber - perhaps the best for Buffalo. I wouldn’t venture into a 470 unless pachyderms were being seriously contemplated.

Or Hippo?

 

[mdwest]

If 450/400 is on the menu, the Chapuis Iphisi might what you’re looking for…

$13,799 new at the beretta gallery… and they will give 10% off to a first time buyer if you get on their email list…so a purchase price of $12,419… right in your target price range..

My wife’s double is an iphisi in 375 H&H… I’m not sure it can be beat at it’s price point… the wood is beautiful.. fit and finish is excellent… etc… and JJ is a huge Chapuis fan… he speaks incredibly high of them (probably the best double gunsmith in the US, and likely among the best in the world)…

Chapuis Iphisi Double Rifle 375 H&H 450-400 NE AAA Walnut

berettagalleryusa.com

 

[Garciamarquez1918]

First rule of double rifles in my book is that you buy a double rifle with A.) Load data, B.) Provable targets showing good regulation, C.) Loaded ammo for that rifle. Whatever your budget WAS, if you can meet ABC requirements for 150% of budget, you're better off buying a known commodity with the loads than piecemail trying to get a gun to shoot straight.

Yes yes yes yes yes. A thousand times yes. Having once bought a pig in a poke double I can't emphasize enough how important and spot on this is. Given your budget, you're going to get a lot more rifle buying used. Off-the-shelf ammo availability is important but there's no guarantee that off-the-shelf ammo from any manufacturer will regulate in your particular (used) rifle. You should plan that reloading, whether doing it yourself or shopping it out, is going to be a part of your future. As 450/400 has grown in popularity the delta between it and the 470 in component availability has decreased significantly.

I would also repeat the more general rifle advice: you're always better off with a lighter rifle that you feel comfortable shooting than a bigger rifle that gives you a flinch.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

My recently acquired knowledge of more detailed engineering and production of a double rifle:

First there are two actions, a sidelock or a boxlock. There is discussion that a sidelock is stronger because less metal is removed from the action itself for the lockworks, but requires more wood removed from the stock therefore some believe the boxlock is the stronger of the two. The boxlock is the simpler action hence less expensive. Unless you come across a super-deal on a pre-owned sidelock your budget dictates a boxlock action.

Secondly there are the methods of of joining the barrels. I’m aware of five different engineering approaches to crafting the barrels and they are also of varying costs to produce:
Chopper Lump
Chopper Lump Dovetail
Shoe Lump or referred to as Platform Lump
Dovetail Lump
Monobloc

The Monobloc is the most “modern” method and general the least expensive. I have read the Dovetail Lump is the most common method.

So, you are looking for a boxlock action with monobloc barrels for quality with least cost. The sky is the limit on what can be spent on a double. My own double is a Merkel 140AE .470NE with Anson & Deely Boxlock, Greener Crossbolt, double bites, and Mononloc barrels.

 

[K-man]

Champlin has several Chapius listed, the .375h&h and larger. You get the reliability of the Chapius plus the reputation of the seller and his commitment to customer service. Worth a look.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

And, one more thing: I recommend a manual safety.

 

[Rare Breed]

Ok, Ive been looking and comparing for some time now and I’m looking to prepare for my 1st double rifle, I’ve herd a lot of negative about rizzini, and Sabattis, I want a good rifle but it doesn’t have to be over the top with engraving and all just a no nonsense hunting rifle and I would like to stay in the 12k and under range , 2nd off as far as a caliber goes I’m torn between a .450/.400 3” or a .470NE I do feel like the .470 would be fitting as I would want this rifle as a buffalo gun primarily but also want a versatile r hunting rifle. I do own a .458 lott but ould probably pass it along once I obtain the double. Thanks for all your help in advance

Given I have owned 8 from most of the brands and am a Rigby man for your $12k budget no question I would buy a Chapuis in either of your caliber choices and I would buy it new through George Caswell at Champlain for two reasons. 1. He offers a lifetime guarantee. 2. He will cut the stock to your LOP. In my experience at your price point no brainer. Beware my good friends on AH telling you to just save your money and buy a Heym. Great brand but the Chapuis will serve you very well

 

[Dublinpiper90]

I appreciate all the feed back, As stated above I don’t reload, but that may change sooner than later, And no I don’t want to go down the rabbit hole trying to regulate a rifle, thus saying this I would probably steer into the direction of a new rifle, Is there any brands under the 12k mark other than Sabatti, Rizzini, I think most Chapuis hang around the 12-13k mark new?

 

[dhughes66]

If 450/400 is on the menu, the Chapuis Iphisi might what you’re looking for…

$13,799 new at the beretta gallery… and they will give 10% off to a first time buyer if you get on their email list…so a purchase price of $12,419… right in your target price range..

My wife’s double is an iphisi in 375 H&H… I’m not sure it can be beat at it’s price point… the wood is beautiful.. fit and finish is excellent… etc… and JJ is a huge Chapuis fan… he speaks incredibly high of them (probably the best double gunsmith in the US, and likely among the best in the world)…

Chapuis Iphisi Double Rifle 375 H&H 450-400 NE AAA Walnut

berettagalleryusa.com

That is my realistic dream rifle. I would love a Heym 89b or a new Rigby boxlock, but I don't see either of those in my future and still going to Africa one day.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Ok, Ive been looking and comparing for some time now and I’m looking to prepare for my 1st double rifle, I’ve herd a lot of negative about rizzini, and Sabattis, I want a good rifle but it doesn’t have to be over the top with engraving and all just a no nonsense hunting rifle and I would like to stay in the 12k and under range , 2nd off as far as a caliber goes I’m torn between a .450/.400 3” or a .470NE I do feel like the .470 would be fitting as I would want this rifle as a buffalo gun primarily but also want a versatile r hunting rifle. I do own a .458 lott but ould probably pass it along once I obtain the double. Thanks for all your help in advance

The Merkel 140AE is excellent value for the money.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Buying the DR is the easy part.

If you don’t hand load. You need REAL load data. Not a factory test target from the 1980s. A real target from a human you can talk to that shot that group. Not some nebulous creature that no one knows who shot the test target.

As Rookhawk said. If you buy one without load data for obtainable powder and obtainable bullets. You will spend another small fortune and months getting groups of a bent barreled $100 bolt action.

You need the powder, bullet and FPS each barrel likes.

Or send it somewhere to pay someone to do it for you.