Can plains game A Frames or TSX bullets be 30% lighter?

SRvet

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Im late to this party in one way but have a fair bit of experience with light monometal bullets shooting 200 - 250 UK deer over the last 15 years. I have grown to trust the 308 Win firing the 130g TTSX at 3000fps and the 7mm Rem mag firing the 120g TTSX at between 3250 and 3450fps. Both of these combinations put small Roe deer and large Red deer on the deck with authority at ranges out to 300metres. If you swap the bullet for a 180g core lock soft point in the 308 even the small roe deer will run a surprising distance, red deer even further. I havent used many partitions (only one deer shot with a 150g NPT). My son has shot a few Roe deer with a 130gTTSX from his 300 WSM at 3650fps. The results were dramatic but I think the 150g TTSX is looking like a better bet in that calibre as the 130 did damage a lot of meat on the small deer
 

colorado

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I'm lazy. I only shoot one weight bullet (except for the 270 Win varmint loads) in all my big game rifles

270 Win 150g Partition at 3000 fps
375 Weatherby 300g A-Frames at 2700 fps
500 Jeffery 570g TSX at 2300 fps

The 500 Jeffery is hell on elk and wild piggies
 

double rifle newbie

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in my humble opinion it depends on the animal. i hunt alaska frequently and my favorite caribou load is the hornady gmx premium bullet in 185 grain 338 win mag. it is light for caliber but caribou tend to “flop over” when hit decently. i had a complete pass-through with this load from 470 yards. now, I do NOT go light for caliber for dangerous game no matter the bullet construction for anything that can bite you back (grizzly).
 

Sabattiboy

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in my humble opinion it depends on the animal. i hunt alaska frequently and my favorite caribou load is the hornady gmx premium bullet in 185 grain 338 win mag. it is light for caliber but caribou tend to “flop over” when hit decently. i had a complete pass-through with this load from 470 yards. now, I do NOT go light for caliber for dangerous game no matter the bullet construction for anything that can bite you back (grizzly).
Recoil felt is at the launched bullet weight and velocity not after X amount has shed and only the retained core is left to penetrate. Some of this discussion has taken place on Weatherby hyper velocity being said to be too fast vs slower cartridge speeds. It is non arguable that newer designed bullets change the game for any caliber or cartridge and can be used as above described in reducing recoil by lighter bullet weight without suffering terminal bullet performance.
Everybody wears their own shoes for their own reasons.
 

Ridgewalker

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Just for everyone’s info, a CS guy at Barnes told me their bullets penetrate like a conventional cup and core 15-20% heavier. Thus a 250 grain Barnes penetrates like a 287-300 grain cup and core.
 

CBH Australia

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Just for everyone’s info, a CS guy at Barnes told me their bullets penetrate like a conventional cup and core 15-20% heavier. Thus a 250 grain Barnes penetrates like a 287-300 grain cup and core.
I'm not expert but I have read a lot of others experience s.

It seems many newer mono metal bullets are light for calibre and are claimed to penetrate better.

Barnes have been around a while now. Hammer Bullets are getting good reviews.
There is CEB and others.
The Australian Woodleigh projectiles are loaded commercially.

There is also Outer Edge Projectiles in Australia and now Atomic 29.

Probably others I have not considered.

They seem to offer performance in lighter weights, helps with recoil.

They all have supporters..

Not sure which is the best or which situation each excels in.

The reason you would be using lighter is they are long for weight so a 150gn .30 Cal might be near as long as something 15-20% heavier.

A .220 GN .30 Cal mono might well be too long to be chambered in any .30cal and would need a faster twist to stabilise it. Perhaps faster than the usual offerings.

The length should increase the BC but all things being equal the lighter bullet will penetrate as it's going to hit faster and is tough enough to penetrate because of its mono metal alloy.

Take in some of what others are saying and determine what best suits your requirements. Shoot straight and you will have to see what works for you.
 

Bob Nelson 35Whelen

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Just for everyone’s info, a CS guy at Barnes told me their bullets penetrate like a conventional cup and core 15-20% heavier. Thus a 250 grain Barnes penetrates like a 287-300 grain cup and core.
@Ridgewalker
So a 225gn 35 cal would be equivalent to a 275gn Woodleigh.
 

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@Ridgewalker
So a 225gn 35 cal would be equivalent to a 275gn Woodleigh.
Their statement was they will penetrate similar to a cup and core bullet 15-20% heavier. They may or may not expand to the same degree. Or they may not blow apart to the same degree. “Penetration” was the specific term he used.
 

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Their statement was they will penetrate similar to a cup and core bullet 15-20% heavier. They may or may not expand to the same degree. Or they may not blow apart to the same degree. “Penetration” was the specific term he used.

Many years ago I went for maximum velocity.
These days I like to match the bullet and its construction to the intended target.
I’m about to load 165 grain Woodleigh power points I think they’ll called for my newly acquired Kimber 308.
Slower and much heavier bullets (within reason) is what I go for now.
 

CBH Australia

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Many years ago I went for maximum velocity.
These days I like to match the bullet and its construction to the intended target.
I’m about to load 165 grain Woodleigh power points I think they’ll called for my newly acquired Kimber 308.
Slower and much heavier bullets (within reason) is what I go for now.
It's not all about velocity but I expect the monos are finding a compromise between more velocity and less recoil to get penetration and a good result.

Traditional bullet types still work, always did.we just like trying new stuff.

What are you targeting with the .309?
 

Dr Ray

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It's not all about velocity but I expect the monos are finding a compromise between more velocity and less recoil to get penetration and a good result.

Traditional bullet types still work, always did.we just like trying new stuff.

What are you targeting with the .309?

Long distant targets and deer
I normally use my 270 for deer but have decided to try the 308.
 

Bob Nelson 35Whelen

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Long distant targets and deer
I normally use my 270 for deer but have decided to try the 308.
@Dr Ray
Load the 08 with 150gn accubonds or 150gn SSTs and a healthy dose of 2208. Sight in 2 inches high at 100 yards and you are 24" low at 400
Happy hunting
Bob
 

Nevada Mike

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I have had similar thoughts about bonded and monolithic bullets and that their weight retention characteristics might enable 'killing power' that would equal that of the older, heavier cup and core bullets. I've thought about this quite a bit, especially in light of the superior momentum of heavier bullets.

Then the obvious occurred to me... we can have our cake and eat it, too. Modern bonded and monolithic bullets retain more weight (and momentum) than cup and core bullets of the same weight and can be launched at the same velocity. What's not to like?
 

CADDIE5

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I talked to Barnes ballistician and he gave me load data for 375ruger 250ttsx. He said it will work reliably on cape buffalo no need for 300gr or 270gr unless my rifle shot them more accurately. He said PG or DG 250ttsx will get it done if I do my part.
 
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The L/D is much greater on a mono bullet. This seems to indicate that they will prefer a faster rate of twist vs a conventional bullet of the same weight. Have you guys found this to be true?
 

ldmay375

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There is definitely a point where the mono’s need a faster twist than equal weight cup & core bullets.
Barnes was doing a pretty good job of updating their bullet to twist rate requirements on their website, prior to the latest buy out.

One example is the .308, 168 grain TTSX, per Barnes, requires 1-11” rate of twist. Above sea level elevations and velocities may have some effect as to creating anomalies.
Apparently the 165 grain TTSX does not have the same rate of twist limitation.
I have some older 308 Winchesters and 30-06’s that per literature are 1-12 twists and and AR-10 with 11.25-12”. Time permitting I may try the 165 grain in these rifles.

I did quickly and informally try the 168’s in the 16.5” AR-10, 308 Winchester.
That little test was inconclusive. Due to the wind blowing the target top forward to me, which could have given the very slight elongated holes. Though the 3 shot groups were about 1” at 100 meters.
Which I thought was plenty acceptable for a military grade light barrel set up, with only a trigger replacement.
I will likely go 150 grain tipped mono’s for my 308’s and 30-06’s that have slower than 1-10 rate of twist. But, I need to contact Barnes and see what their recommendation is for the 165 TTSX.
 

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