Breaking in a tight new double rifle

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Does anyone have any suggestions on breaking in new or very tight older double rifles? I have had recent experiences with double rifles that are very stiff on opening and closing. Due to ammunition availability and reloading being impractical shooting 100s of rounds is out of the question. The ones that I am dealing with have been properly lubed with high pressure grease especially made for double rifles.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Lon

 

[Inline6]

I'm not a double guy, so I'm talking out loud. Is grease the correct lubricant? If tolerances are that tight I would think something thinner like oil might work better.

I'm sure you will have some experts chime in soon as to the best course of action to take.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

At present I am using Ken Owens double rifle lubricant,

Lon

 

[Inline6]

At present I am using Ken Owens double rifle lubricant,

Lon

He would be an expert worth talking to for sure. I'm sure he would take a phone call from you.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Grease a shotgun, or double rifle... I prefer silicone grease.

First remove the forend and determine it the action is still as tight as with it on.
-- If it is, it may be the Greener Crossbolt if the gun has one, or locking lugs.
-- It not as tight, I'd look at the mating surfaces on the forend and ejector hammers.

One could use Tool Makers Blue Ink or even the "field expedient method" of a Sharpie black marker.

Mark the potential tight areas and reassemble the gun.
Open and close the action a lot or until the bluing wears off.
These are the tight, wear areas.

There are two methods one could use to smooth the mating surfaces:
1. Coat the wear area with something like J-B Bore Polishing or cleaning Compound

If J-B isn't available, automotive polishing compound may work. That would be less abrasive than J-B. Maybe car wax would work? It is less abrasive than polishing compound.
DO NOT use anything too abrasive.

Be careful, work this a little at a time. Coat, open and close action 20 or more times. Clean and grease, and check to see if action is smoother. Repeat...

2. Use polishing wheels on a Moto Tool

Obviously use a Moto Tool sparingly. Be careful... A little polishing goes a long way...

Or, remove any excessive lubricant, insert snap caps, and work the action a thousand times while watching TV over the next week or two. I broke in a new Merkel .375 H&H by doing this.

 

[Shootist43]

Lon, several years ago I had a problem moving the windage adjustment screw in the rear sight of a Winchester Model 71. In fact, I'd broken off part of the screw head. I took it to a gunsmith who heated the area, melted the old grease and simply removed the screw. He told me this was a rather common problem with "old" grease. Perhaps unrelated, but you might give it a try.

 

[rookhawk]

Does anyone have any suggestions on breaking in new or very tight older double rifles? I have had recent experiences with double rifles that are very stiff on opening and closing. Due to ammunition availability and reloading being impractical shooting 100s of rounds is out of the question. The ones that I am dealing with have been properly lubed with high pressure grease especially made for double rifles.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Lon

I'm sure you are using Ken's grease from your comments and good taste. If you can't fire a million rounds, I'd say your next best option is "some" live firing and a whole lot of snap-cap shooting, opening, ejecting, and retrieving.

Once that's all done, I'd then take the gun all apart, remove ALL grease and oil, test with your hands for any burrs you may find, use a fine stone on all of them, clean thoroughly, use a lot of kroil or ballistol, and only use Ken's grease sparingly at the hinge for a good long while. (because you want wear right now and the grease is sticky and binds things up whereas kroil does not)

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I appreciate the different ideas. Old grease is not the problem. I do have JB & Dykem. My old George Gibbs was rebuilt at Westley Richards back in the 80s and I have been shooting it since the early 90s and it is just starting to loosen up. One of the others is a 20 year old Heym 88b and after hundreds of opening and closings and a bit of polishing with J B and a lot of shooting it is just starting to come around. The last one is my wife's new double which I will let her announce (she is awful proud of it) and that sucker is tight tight. I do know that the Greener cross bolt on one is very "sticky".

Maybe I just spent to many years with my old Manton .470 pull the lever and it would fall open going feed me, feed me. Nothing beats shooting the darned things, but we just do not have the ammunition.

Again I welcome any and all feed back.

 

[BourbonTrail]

Grease a shotgun, or double rifle... I prefer silicone grease.

First remove the forend and determine it the action is still as tight as with it on.
-- If it is, it may be the Greener Crossbolt if the gun has one, or locking lugs.
-- It not as tight, I'd look at the mating surfaces on the forend and ejector hammers.

One could use Tool Makers Blue Ink or even the "field expedient method" of a Sharpie black marker.
View attachment 519426
View attachment 519427

Mark the potential tight areas and reassemble the gun.
Open and close the action a lot or until the bluing wears off.
These are the tight, wear areas.

There are two methods one could use to smooth the mating surfaces:
1. Coat the wear area with something like J-B Bore Polishing or cleaning Compound
View attachment 519423

If J-B isn't available, automotive polishing compound may work. That would be less abrasive than J-B. Maybe car wax would work? It is less abrasive than polishing compound.
DO NOT use anything too abrasive.

Be careful, work this a little at a time. Coat, open and close action 20 or more times. Clean and grease, and check to see if action is smoother. Repeat...

2. Use polishing wheels on a Moto Tool
View attachment 519424

View attachment 519425

Obviously use a Moto Tool sparingly. Be careful... A little polishing goes a long way...

Or, remove any excessive lubricant, insert snap caps, and work the action a thousand times while watching TV over the next week or two. I broke in a new Merkel .375 H&H by doing this.

+1 on this

3000+ grit stones or hardened steel dowels (for burnishing) are good for removing/reducing tooling marks and burrs, but polishing compound is best for light abrasion in the .0005” (.001mm) range. To check for burrs, run a cotton swab or light cotton glove over edges and see if anything snags.

 

[rookhawk]

Grease a shotgun, or double rifle... I prefer silicone grease.

First remove the forend and determine it the action is still as tight as with it on.
-- If it is, it may be the Greener Crossbolt if the gun has one, or locking lugs.
-- It not as tight, I'd look at the mating surfaces on the forend and ejector hammers.

One could use Tool Makers Blue Ink or even the "field expedient method" of a Sharpie black marker.
View attachment 519426
View attachment 519427

Mark the potential tight areas and reassemble the gun.
Open and close the action a lot or until the bluing wears off.
These are the tight, wear areas.

There are two methods one could use to smooth the mating surfaces:
1. Coat the wear area with something like J-B Bore Polishing or cleaning Compound
View attachment 519423

If J-B isn't available, automotive polishing compound may work. That would be less abrasive than J-B. Maybe car wax would work? It is less abrasive than polishing compound.
DO NOT use anything too abrasive.

Be careful, work this a little at a time. Coat, open and close action 20 or more times. Clean and grease, and check to see if action is smoother. Repeat...

2. Use polishing wheels on a Moto Tool
View attachment 519424

View attachment 519425

Obviously use a Moto Tool sparingly. Be careful... A little polishing goes a long way...

Or, remove any excessive lubricant, insert snap caps, and work the action a thousand times while watching TV over the next week or two. I broke in a new Merkel .375 H&H by doing this.

JB is awesome stuff, but its way to soft for the endeavor at hand. It's like 100,000 grit (a slight exaggeration)

I'm not the best gunsmith on the planet, in fact I'm one of the worst probably. Why do I never, ever make mistakes? It's really hard to make mistakes with 19th century tools. Everything takes so long that you catch yourself before you ruin anything.

Stones. Files. Calipers. Rottenstone. Grease. Oil. Lamp Soot. A small gouge. Crisp turnscrews. Bronze Wool. Cotton patches. A few checkering border files. Good lighting. Soft toothbrushes. 2000 grit sandpaper.

I'm slow as a turtle but make no mistakes. If you give me a dremel I promise you I can destroy a $100,000 item in 30 seconds, you'll learn new curse words in the encounter.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I've used Clover aluminum oxide based lapping compound for tight parts.

 

[rookhawk]

I do know that the Greener cross bolt on one is very "sticky".

Ballistol isn't the right tool for the job on that one. With something sticky like a heym crossbolt, you need Kroil. It's the thinnest lubricant you can possibly buy. It creeps. It will let the metal surfaces lap one another to loosen it up. Ballistol is wonderful for many things but not for a lot of the things you do.

You've rattled off 20 things recently you want to do that call for Kroil.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I'm sure you are using Ken's grease from your comments and good taste. If you can't fire a million rounds, I'd say your next best option is "some" live firing and a whole lot of snap-cap shooting, opening, ejecting, and retrieving.

Once that's all done, I'd then take the gun all apart, remove ALL grease and oil, test with your hands for any burrs you may find, use a fine stone on all of them, clean thoroughly, use a lot of kroil or ballistol, and only use Ken's grease sparingly at the hinge for a good long while. (because you want wear right now and the grease is sticky and binds things up whereas kroil does not)

Hi Rookhawk,

Right now if .470 Hornady was available, which it is not it would be somewhere around $800.00 a box. I have to find the grease I use to use on my Perazzi. It is a little less sticky than Kens. I did try Kroil. Two of the rifles are regulated for Hornady and I do have a limited supply of .459-.400, but zero .470 Hornady. I am getting one box of factory .470 Hornady. Liesl has not tried any of my Federal Premium that will probably be our next step.

Cheers, Lon

 

[rookhawk]

Hi Rookhawk,

Right now if .470 Hornady was available, which it is not it would be somewhere around $800.00 a box. I have to find the grease I use to use on my Perazzi. It is a little less sticky than Kens. I did try Kroil. Two of the rifles are regulated for Hornady and I do have a limited supply of .459-.400, but zero .470 Hornady. I am getting one box of factory .470 Hornady. Liesl has not tried any of my Federal Premium that will probably be our next step.

Cheers, Lon

It sounds like all costs being considered, snap caps are going to be your friend. And Kroil, and a stone.

Ken's lube is ideal for old guns, filling up the zerk fittings to keep them tight. It's the opposite for these tight new guns. Just kroli and stones until you get them loose. Then you can maintain their operating parameters with hinge grease on the bites thereafter.

The smallest molecule of lubricant in the world is Kroil, that's why I keep suggesting it where you need slippery without adding volume to where parts connect.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Hi Lon, without letting the cat out of the bag I know the situation very well. Relax though, this is good news, you don't have a problem there, you have a blessing. These doubles are made to extremely close tolerances. I am a metallurgical engineer as you know and i took a magnifying glass to these surfaces. Yes the action is stiff, but you will notice that it is uniformly so as it opens and closes. There are no high spots I could discern, just perfect still marry up all over.
It simply has to wear in a very little bit. My advice is:
1. Wipe off as much of the grease you put on the surfaces as possible.
2. Put on a very light coating of very light oil onto the mating surfaces.
3. Work the action until your arms ache, maybe three hundred times.
4. The action will have eased up, not from wear, but from pressure smoothening.
5. DO NOT use any abrasive creams or any type of abrasive, you are not needing to remove metal, just pressure smooth the mating surfaces.
6. When the action is as easy as you like it (it will always be a little stiff, it is the nature of the modern close tolerance), then clean off all the surfaces and rub on a minute amount of moly di-sulphide paste, very little and rub it in well. those surfaces will now probably not wear at ell for a very very long time.
7. Now just oil very lightly and you are good.

My double is now much easier to cock and on top of the above action working I have put about 100 rounds through it. Yours will loosen up, it takes a bit of time.

 

[zephyr]

I would really hate to see you take any metal off any part of your gun whether polishing or using a rouge..
What Kevin Said .......Or....
Try this; When opening the gun, if right handed grasp the grip with your right hand and push the side lever open with your right thumb put your left hand on and over the top of the action and give the gun/barrels a healthy quick shake and down the weight of the Barrels should open the gun

 

[rookhawk]

Hi Lon, without letting the cat out of the bag I know the situation very well. Relax though, this is good news, you don't have a problem there, you have a blessing. These doubles are made to extremely close tolerances. I am a metallurgical engineer as you know and i took a magnifying glass to these surfaces. Yes the action is stiff, but you will notice that it is uniformly so as it opens and closes. There are no high spots I could discern, just perfect still marry up all over.
It simply has to wear in a very little bit. My advice is:
1. Wipe off as much of the grease you put on the surfaces as possible.
2. Put on a very light coating of very light oil onto the mating surfaces.
3. Work the action until your arms ache, maybe three hundred times.
4. The action will have eased up, not from wear, but from pressure smoothening.
5. DO NOT use any abrasive creams or any type of abrasive, you are not needing to remove metal, just pressure smooth the mating surfaces.
6. When the action is as easy as you like it (it will always be a little stiff, it is the nature of the modern close tolerance), then clean off all the surfaces and rub on a minute amount of moly di-sulphide paste, very little and rub it in well. those surfaces will now probably not wear at ell for a very very long time.
7. Now just oil very lightly and you are good.

My double is now much easier to cock and on top of the above action working I have put about 100 rounds through it. Yours will loosen up, it takes a bit of time.

@Kevin Peacocke I've always known you're a smart guy, I now know more about your professional background. I think you can help here when it comes to lubricants. Even in the USA, kroil is REALLY hard to get your hands on and the hazmat fees to ship it exceed the price per quart. I'm assuming you guys don't have it in Zim or RSA and I'm not sure how i could legally get you some because they probably wouldn't let me put it in the belly of a plane.

So here's how you can help.

Kroil smells and feels to me like it contains in large part, automatic transmission fluid. In fact, it even has that red/pink color when you buy it. If you leave it in a clear bottle in a window for 6 months, the red color disappears. It is such a fine molecule that it is what we use on a stuck screw of a best gun. It works way better than the oils marketed for loosening screws. You put a drop on every couple hours while leaving an incadescent bulb near the screw for 3 days. At the end of the process, you use a turnscrew and the stuck screw comes loose without destroying what could have been a fully engraved pin.

So if we can't get Kroil into Zim, could you take a guess at what this stuff actually is so you can put the thinnest possible lubricant on stiff guns like Lon's so it can self-lap all the tight parts? Its viscosity is far less than that of water and it has ATF in it for sure.

I just found a material safety data sheet! This is the secret sauce, can you make this in Zim?

Severely Hydrotreated Petroleum Distillates 30-50%, Light Petroleum Distillates 30-50%, Aliphatic Alcohols, Glycol Ether 1-5%, Proprietary Ingredients 5-15%, (Propellant removed as unnecessary unless aerosol desired)

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

@Kevin Peacocke I've always known you're a smart guy, I now know more about your professional background. I think you can help here when it comes to lubricants. Even in the USA, kroil is REALLY hard to get your hands on and the hazmat fees to ship it exceed the price per quart. I'm assuming you guys don't have it in Zim or RSA and I'm not sure how i could legally get you some because they probably wouldn't let me put it in the belly of a plane.

So here's how you can help.

Kroil smells and feels to me like it contains in large part, automatic transmission fluid. In fact, it even has that red/pink color when you buy it. If you leave it in a clear bottle in a window for 6 months, the red color disappears. It is such a fine molecule that it is what we use on a stuck screw of a best gun. It works way better than the oils marketed for loosening screws. You put a drop on every couple hours while leaving an incadescent bulb near the screw for 3 days. At the end of the process, you use a turnscrew and the stuck screw comes loose without destroying what could have been a fully engraved pin.

So if we can't get Kroil into Zim, could you take a guess at what this stuff actually is so you can put the thinnest possible lubricant on stiff guns like Lon's so it can self-lap all the tight parts? Its viscosity is far less than that of water and it has ATF in it for sure.

I just found a material safety data sheet! This is the secret sauce, can you make this in Zim?

Severely Hydrotreated Petroleum Distillates 30-50%, Light Petroleum Distillates 30-50%, Aliphatic Alcohols, Glycol Ether 1-5%, Proprietary Ingredients 5-15%, (Propellant removed as unnecessary unless aerosol desired)

Hi Rook, thank you for this valuable input. I am sure I have seen Kroil in SA, I will look out for it when next I am in Johannesburg.
After I replied to Lon I took my double apart and you can see the shiny mating surfaces developing nicely. I will take some photos on micro tomorrow in the sunlight and post them. I am blown away with how extremely accurately they can CNC these days, looks to be to very small fractions of a thou.

 

[rookhawk]

Hi Rook, thank you for this valuable input. I am sure I have seen Kroil in SA, I will look out for it when next I am in Johannesburg.
After I replied to Lon I took my double apart and you can see the shiny mating surfaces developing nicely. I will take some photos on micro tomorrow in the sunlight and post them. I am blown away with how extremely accurately they can CNC these days, looks to be to very small fractions of a thou.

Its truly amazing. That being said, these new guns take a very long time to break in because the tolerances are literally 0.001" when new. My 1999 Heym 470 STILL has a sticky crossbolt and needs more factory break-in. German engineering is good for the long-term enjoyment of our guns but they are not silky smooth out of the box like the rougher tolerances of a vintage English gun.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I have always found the best method to fix this problem is use, whether it be a double or a bolt gun. I understand this doesn't really help you alot as it sounds like you don't have a whole lot of ammo just lying around but as some others have mentioned I would definitely avoid using abrasives to remove material.