Bowhunting Elephant

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Africa' started by observe, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. Foxi

    Foxi AH Elite

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    image-1206260-galleryV9-wehs-1206260.jpg
    if you compare the body masses ,then you see that elephant is one league of the other planet.
    What I'm trying to understand is :what is the special value of bow hunting on elephant when a PH with his .458 stands next to me.
    Regards
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2018

  2. jeff

    jeff AH Legend

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    Foxi I guess it's the same special value as shooting a elephant with the .375 or .416 or what ever else when the PH stands next to you with his .458
     
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  3. mrpoindexter

    mrpoindexter AH Fanatic

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    I understand that an elephant is larger than a buffalo. A giraffe is actually tougher to bring down than a Cape buffalo - they just are far less likely to come looking to exact revenge.

    Category 3 (Large game - Wildebeest, Zebra, Eland...)
    60 Ft-Lbs, 0.4 Slugs momentum

    Category 4 (Cape Buffalo)
    80 Ft-Lbs, 0.45 Slugs momentum

    Category 5 (Hippo, Giraffe, Rhino)
    95Ft-Lbs, 0.5 Slugs momentum

    Category 6 (Elephant)
    105 Ft-Lbs, 0.6 Slugs momentum

    Also, one need understand that we are not using kinetic energy to kill the animal and there is no hydrostatic shock. All the energy is just to push the arrow into their vitals where they can then bleed out. For an elephant, one will need to hit the heart or the cluster of arteries just at the top of the heart. Shooting a 950+ grain arrow with 105 Ft-Lbs, 0.6 slugs of momentum with a fixed two blade single bevel broadhead with a mechanical advantage of 3.0 or better will get you there.

    Once you get through the heart, the damage is done and it is fatal 100% of the time. More penetration just means the arrow comes out the other side and possibly you have two holes leaking blood to track instead of just one.

    It may not be your cup of tea hunting dangerous game with a bow, but it is mine. I certainly wouldn't ask the PH to leave the rifle in the bakkie - to do so would put the lives over the entire party at undue risk and that would be unethical hunting.
     
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  4. elephantmaster29

    elephantmaster29 AH Member

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    Sorry to hear about that @mrpoindexter! Best of luck up north! Honestly, It would be a dream to do that hunt! Elephant with bow seems like the hight of any hunting challenge.
     

  5. mrpoindexter

    mrpoindexter AH Fanatic

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    It is going to be a challenge. I got my bow up to 90lbs draw weight and 117 Ft-Lbs of Kinetic energy and 1.14 slugs of Momentum and I can still shoot 275+ on a full Vegas round with it. I will say that drawing that back 30 times in about half an hour is a bit tough so I have some work to do. Want to get my Vegas round scoring with it over 285 and be able to do a back to back round. At that point, I will feel like I am "comfortable" at that weight.

    Then I have to get my hunt booked and finished before my shoulder gives out.
     

  6. Foxi

    Foxi AH Elite

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    Jeff,
    if it's the same, why not take the object that kills the animal in seconds to save it pain?
     

  7. BenKK

    BenKK AH Fanatic

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    Foxi, I’m a bowhunter and a rifleman. An arrow in the heart or lungs kills faster, in my experience, than a bullet in the same place. I’m talking pigs and goats up to buffalos and camels. And I’m talking traditional bows (I don’t have much experience with compound bows).

    The obvious disadvantage is that a quick second shot can’t usually be made with a bow.
     

  8. Foxi

    Foxi AH Elite

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    BennKK,
    I devour all the literature I can get on bow hunting.
    Hunting on this way is prohibited in Germany.
    My bow bible ,100 times read, is the work of Stewart Edward White and Saxton Pope.
    But I have talked a lot with bow hunters and safari teams in Africa about it.
    Only about the elephant hunt I heard nothing good.
    Sine ira et studio.
    Foxi
     

  9. BenKK

    BenKK AH Fanatic

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    Foxi, my friend, you are well read! Those are wonderful books indeed! I think I understand some of your caution about the hunting of elephant with a bow, as I am also aware of anecdotes where things either went wrong or were misrepresented (rifle intervention not disclosed). It’s just that there have been many honest and quick successes. Have you read Bill Negley’s book? He’s honest about it.
     
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  10. JPbowhunter

    JPbowhunter AH Enthusiast

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    Can't speak for pigs and buff but that's 100% not the case with deer just in my experience

    What I've noticed is animals shot with bow don't bolt from the sound of a gun shot so don't take flight giving the appearance of not going as far.

    Put a timer on it and i don't think I've seen an archery animal die quicker.
     

  11. jeff

    jeff AH Legend

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    Many rifle hunts have gone wrong also, just read Bells books.
     

  12. mrpoindexter

    mrpoindexter AH Fanatic

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    Applying that argument across the board, why hunt with a bow at all.

    For starters, you are making an ASSUMPTION that death from an arrow is more painful than death from a rifle. If we exclude head shots, I don't think we have conclusive proof of that. You can say a rifle shot is a faster death, but faster does not mean less painful.

    Second, I have already hunted an elephant with a rifle. I have no desire to hunt another one with a rifle. I didn't even want to use a rifle on that hunt but my permit was rifle only and I am going to follow the law.

    Finally, the PH holding a rifle is not detracting from my experience. Should we stumble across a band of poachers, I would prefer a rifle to be in the party over having another bow.
     
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  13. Foxi

    Foxi AH Elite

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    Ben,
    Ive never red his book,but do you know his movie



    Little bit Howard Hill fantasy,but I like the old footage from Africa in the 50ies .
    What were those flourishing countries back then ?

    I appreciate your stories from Australia very much and Im intetersted on hunting there in my dreams.
    But this country is so far away and I can't handle a 24-hour flight .
    Regards from Munich
    Foxi
     

  14. BenKK

    BenKK AH Fanatic

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    I hear you, Foxi. That’s too long sitting on a plane. One day I hope to visit Europe, but I’ll go via Singapore and Dubai, stopping a couple of nights in each place to break-up the journey.
     

  15. joker2400

    joker2400 AH Member

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    My experience has been that the time is the same.

    Also every animal I've ever shot with a bow bolts after the fact.
     

  16. observe

    observe AH ENABLER CONTRIBUTOR AH Legend

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    Bob Swinehart , archer from the 1950's early 60’s.
    52979925_1259859734153253_1624520295370981376_n.jpg
     
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  17. observe

    observe AH ENABLER CONTRIBUTOR AH Legend

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  18. observe

    observe AH ENABLER CONTRIBUTOR AH Legend

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    Bow Hunting Elephant report from the net

    I had the great fortune to kill a Bull Elephant last week in Mozambique .
    I was hunting with ESP safaris.
    They had never hunted elephants with a bow-hunter but did a great job.
    The first day we worked within 30 yards of a big group before they got are scent and charged.
    We hunted hard for the next 4 days before we got in close again.
    I clipped a rib going in and only got about 12" of penetration , at the shot.
    After the shot the world went nuts and elephants were every where folks shouting guns firing, it was quite a rodeo .

    00small28487230.JPG

    The next morning we found my bull dead with the arrow completely inside.
    I used a 85# Black Widow iron wood recurve with 300 grain Tuff broad head. Total arrow weight was 1100 grains.
    Set up was a 83@28 iron wood psax I was drawing it 29"

    00small40195391.JPG

    Arrow was a heritage350 shaft with a newsman shaft inserted full length. 100 grain brass insert, 75 grain titanium broad head insert , 4" of aluminum footing and a 300 grain Tuff broad head All JB welded together

    I fired a couple of test arrows afterwards and they zipped right in.

    00small13979120.JPG
     
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  19. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Foxi, the last hunting example is telling for me.

    PH NO experience with bow hunting.
    This always turns a situation into a rodeo. They lack knowledge and are more prone to panic because they do not trust the bow and arrow or the methods required to hunt with it. It is different.


    eg. 1. I had a PH telling me to shoot at a Vaalie that was already spooked by our presence. You could have taken the shot with a rifle, not a bow. He kept leading the stalk, not the bow hunter. Totally unfamiliar with bow hunting. It took days to train the guy.

    eg 2. On a Caracal hunt. The cat was treed and the dog handler saw the bow come out and was immediately raising a concern for his dogs safety. He had obviously had an experience with a bow hunter that was not positive.
    I shot the cat through the heart, it died almost instantly and fall from the tree dead. Perfect heart shot. The handler was all smiles. No hurt dogs.


    Proper shot placement is key, no matter what the weapon used on the hunt.

    I have taken bull Elk with the bow that did not even react to the heart shot. It was not aware that I was present, did not react to the heart shot (flinch like it was bothered by flies). We actually had to physically run at it screaming to make it run out of the gully. ( It made recovery easier.) Without us screaming at it, it would have stood there and bled to death in moments.

    I have watched Cape Buffalo do the exact same thing. They react as though another Buffalo pocked them in the ribs. No distress, no running. Shuffle, walk away and lay down and die.

    Shot placement screw ups happen with the bow and the rifle. One shot kills are the goal with the most humane result for any hunter. No matter the quarry.

    Perhaps it is a cultural issue.
    I am investigating hunting deer in the UK.
    • They can use suppressors - we go to jail if we possess one. Criminal charges.
    • They stalk in urban parks - We have no such thing.
    • They can use dogs to hunt deer - we go to jail if we use one. They see it as ethical, we see it as criminal.
    • The Deer Stalkers are trained to hide the dead deer from people to avoid upsetting them.
    • They can hunt at night - we call people Poachers who hunt at night. Illegal. We can not even discharge a rifle at night.
    • NO bow hunting in the UK - We use bow hunting in close proximity to populations for safety concerns.
    • They can sell venison - No selling venison here. Illegal.
    • Game in the UK is owned by no one - Game here is owned by the government "Crown"
    Trying to understand differences is sometimes confounding.
     
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