Blaser R8 - Why do African PH’s and Alaskan Bear Guides Choose Not To Use Blaser R8’s?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Wow! If I were ever lucky enough to be able to hunt wild boar in Turkey, I think I'd want a semi auto Browning BAR in .338WM? It sounds like the hunting of those giant boars there could be fast and furious!

@CoElkHunter
Why not a bolt action Whelen and cool nerves. One and done.
Bob
You have this thing for inferior cartridges mate like the little 338. Next you will be wanting a killer tomato slayer, field mouse vaporising 243. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately ) semi or full auto rifles are forbidden in Turkey. But you can find BARs or 7400 Remingtons and some HKs easily but you must keep them in your house (Laws)
Coelkhunter even ı assume your 338wm suggestion is sarcastic, yes you have to be fast and furious
But if you come here i can take you to a wild boar driven hunt
RTG and BeeMaa as you all know you have to open the bolt for top feeding. So if you open it you ll eject the last bullet in the barrel. But at that moment you need it in the barrel to stop the charging animal. But anyway forget it. Blaser is the Best

Aren’t detachable magazine bolt rifles a relatively modern development? What rifles did they use on driven boar hunts before that?

 

[CoElkHunter]

Why not top load? Just press rounds into the magazine without disassembling the weapon. That is the only way I have ever loaded my R8

I’ve done the same thing with my Browning A Bolt .338, but not while hunting. If I have to shoot the three cartridges in the magazine and the one in the chamber at ONE animal while hunting at a reasonable hunting distance, I think I’d be done for the day out of disappointment.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately ) semi or full auto rifles are forbidden in Turkey. But you can find BARs or 7400 Remingtons and some HKs easily but you must keep them in your house (Laws)
Coelkhunter even ı assume your 338wm suggestion is sarcastic, yes you have to be fast and furious
But if you come here i can take you to a wild boar driven hunt
RTG and BeeMaa as you all know you have to open the bolt for top feeding. So if you open it you ll eject the last bullet in the barrel. But at that moment you need it in the barrel to stop the charging animal. But anyway forget it. Blaser is the Best

Ilkay Taskin,
No I wasn’t being sarcastic about hunting your larger sized wild boars with a Browning BAR in .338WM and preferably with an extended round detachable magazine. If they’re being driven and running already and somebody wounds one, I would want a “stopping cartridge” if I were the focus of their revenge. I’ve seen a video or two here on AH where hunters were using semi auto Benelli R1s in a European country(s) for driven deer hunts? I guess I assumed they were/might be legal in Turkey, but I assumed wrong. So, a bolt action rifle it is and fix bayonets! I’m being facetious now. Ha! Ha!

 

[BeeMaa]

Ilkay Taskin,
No I wasn’t being sarcastic about hunting your larger sized wild boars with a Browning BAR in .338WM and preferably with an extended round detachable magazine. If they’re being driven and running already and somebody wounds one, I would want a “stopping cartridge” if I were the focus of their revenge. I’ve seen a video or two here on AH where hunters were using semi auto Benelli R1s in a European country(s) for driven deer hunts? I guess I assumed they were/might be legal in Turkey, but I assumed wrong. So, a bolt action rifle it is and fix bayonets! I’m being facetious now. Ha! Ha!

Fixed bayonets...LOL. Wondering what Blaser would charge for that...

I've seen (YouTube, not in person) the Benelli R1 used for driven hunts in Germany, but some countries still forbid semi-autos for hunting. This is where the speed of a straight pull comes in. Examples like the Merkel Helix with the 2:1 transmission action for incredible speed and Heym SR 30 with ball bearing retention & bomb proof lockup. The Blaser R8 seems to be the most popular in Europe and the US. Browning offers the Maral, but only sells it in Europe specifically for driven hunts. The list goes on and on with top quality manufacturers like Strasser, Haenel & Beretta doing the same thing.

Notice something about that list...not a lot of American rifle companies making straight pull rifles. Why you ask? Because it's legal (in several states) to hunt with a semi-auto and the US (typically) doesn't hunt driven game in the same manner as Europe. Until recently with the Savage Impulse, the only other American made straight pull rifle I can think of is the 22lr Browning T-Bolt.* The straight pull was primarily made where it was used/needed most.

Straight pulls have been around for a long time and will continue to be a topic of debate for their suitability for all types of uses...and yes that includes African PH's and Alaskan Bear Guides. The roots of the straight pull are in the driven hunts of Europe but they have gone global because of the innovation and technology they bring to the table.

*Please add any other US made straight pull rifles I may not have thought of if you are so inclined.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Fixed bayonets...LOL. Wondering what Blaser would charge for that...

I've seen (YouTube, not in person) the Benelli R1 used for driven hunts in Germany, but some countries still forbid semi-autos for hunting. This is where the speed of a straight pull comes in. Examples like the Merkel Helix with the 2:1 transmission action for incredible speed and Heym SR 30 with ball bearing retention & bomb proof lockup. The Blaser R8 seems to be the most popular in Europe and the US. Browning offers the Maral, but only sells it in Europe specifically for driven hunts. The list goes on and on with top quality manufacturers like Strasser, Haenel & Beretta doing the same thing.

Notice something about that list...not a lot of American rifle companies making straight pull rifles. Why you ask? Because it's legal (in several states) to hunt with a semi-auto and the US (typically) doesn't hunt driven game in the same manner as Europe. Until recently with the Savage Impulse, the only other American made straight pull rifle I can think of is the 22lr Browning T-Bolt.* The straight pull was primarily made where it was used/needed most.

Straight pulls have been around for a long time and will continue to be a topic of debate for their suitability for all types of uses...and yes that includes African PH's and Alaskan Bear Guides. The roots of the straight pull are in the driven hunts of Europe but they have gone global because of the innovation and technology they bring to the table.

*Please add any other US made straight pull rifles I may not have thought of if you are so inclined.

Very interesting information on the straight pull bolt actions and why they aren’t as popular for hunting here. I can see why they are favored in other countries that don’t allow semi autos for hunting and have driven hunts for game. I can see where the cycling speed of the Blaser would be advantageous with game already running towards the hunters in a driven hunt.

 

[mark-hunter]

Modern roots of straight pull may indeed be in European driven hunts, in the light of number of countries banning semi autos in modern days. Also, as a rule they are cheaper then quality double.

But, the true historic root of straight pull is actually military high power rifle. For example:
Mannlicher–Schönauer, Swiss Schmidt–Rubin, Canadian Ross rifle. All of them developed in the same time as other famous designs, before first world war.

In the united states, ways of history were different.
At the peak of popularity of lever action (which never caught up in Europe)- at the end of century - US army adopted Mauser system by adopting Springfield 1903, and for civilian market Winchester soon followed, again with Mauser turn bolt system - model 54, in 1925 and m70 in 1936.
And by 1918, Canadian ross straigh pull was notorious and phased out. So, this kept turn bolt action popular in US.

 

[Challer]

Ok BeeMaa . Now take your R8 rifle. Put a bullet in to the chamber. Now imagine you are hunting.This is your last bullet and the hunt is still on. But you need extra bullets. So you have to put another magazine. You ejected the empty one and put it in to your pocket . Because you were thinking now you have time and calm situation. So now there is a bullet in your chamber but no trigger to pull. At that moment you are in the very thick bush. A big male wildboar attacked you. You have no time to put the other magazine even you dont have time to fear because it happens in 1sec. So now you have a very expensive stick in your hands with lots of great great features but not a rifle. This may happen every hunting day here in Turkey. In this scenario if you are lucky your friends will take you to the nearest hospital for the stitches. Another rifle with removable magazine can shoot the last bullet at the moment that you really need and save your life . Because it still has a trigger to pull. As i said before different countries different dynamics different scenarios.

You hunt pigs without a backup 10mm or something like it? BTW I can do my R8 trigger group change quicker I can record it. Quicker than I can draw my 10mm or 7.5FK.

 

[BeeMaa]

Modern roots of straight pull may indeed be in European driven hunts, in the light of number of countries banning semi autos in modern days. Also, as a rule they are cheaper then quality double.

But, the true historic root of straight pull is actually military high power rifle. For example:
Mannlicher–Schönauer, Swiss Schmidt–Rubin, Canadian Ross rifle. All of them developed in the same time as other famous designs, before first world war.

In the united states, ways of history were different.
At the peak of popularity of lever action (which never caught up in Europe)- at the end of century - US army adopted Mauser system by adopting Springfield 1903, and for civilian market Winchester soon followed, again with Mauser turn bolt system - model 54, in 1925 and m70 in 1936.
And by 1918, Canadian ross straigh pull was notorious and phased out. So, this kept turn bolt action popular in US.

Agreed. I should have prefaced my earlier statement with Post-WW2 production. Lee Navy also made the 1895 cam action straight pull rifle for the US Navy and Marines for a short time prior to WW1.

 

[Challer]

Well I asked for a sub forum. This has got to the level of masks work/masks don’t work. No amount of talk will change anyones mind. If you have R8s, you know what you have. If you have a 98, go “accurize” it.

Don’t like plastic in guns? How about airplanes (key structural elements are plastic in most planes now)? All plastic is not junk any more than all metal is pot metal. or MIM.

Can’t fire that last round in the chamber when changing trigger groups? Now imagine you did fire it and need another round. Why enter the brush without a full mag (or R8X!)? Where’s your 10mm? Real DG- where’s your PH?

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

But, the true historic root of straight pull is actually military high power rifle. For example:
Mannlicher–Schönauer, Swiss Schmidt–Rubin, Canadian Ross rifle. All of them developed in the same time as other famous designs, before first world war.

Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles and carbines were not straight pull.

The straight pull Mannlichers (Models 1886, 1888, 1890, 1886/90, 1888/90, 1895 and variants used en bloc clips, also known as the Mannlicher Packet Loading System.

Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles and carbines (stutzen), both military and sporting, were turn bolt and used the Schoenauer rotary magazine which could be charged from 'stripper clip'.

 

[Aaron N]

Fixed bayonets...LOL. Wondering what Blaser would charge for that...

I've seen (YouTube, not in person) the Benelli R1 used for driven hunts in Germany, but some countries still forbid semi-autos for hunting. This is where the speed of a straight pull comes in. Examples like the Merkel Helix with the 2:1 transmission action for incredible speed and Heym SR 30 with ball bearing retention & bomb proof lockup. The Blaser R8 seems to be the most popular in Europe and the US. Browning offers the Maral, but only sells it in Europe specifically for driven hunts. The list goes on and on with top quality manufacturers like Strasser, Haenel & Beretta doing the same thing.

Notice something about that list...not a lot of American rifle companies making straight pull rifles. Why you ask? Because it's legal (in several states) to hunt with a semi-auto and the US (typically) doesn't hunt driven game in the same manner as Europe. Until recently with the Savage Impulse, the only other American made straight pull rifle I can think of is the 22lr Browning T-Bolt.* The straight pull was primarily made where it was used/needed most.

Straight pulls have been around for a long time and will continue to be a topic of debate for their suitability for all types of uses...and yes that includes African PH's and Alaskan Bear Guides. The roots of the straight pull are in the driven hunts of Europe but they have gone global because of the innovation and technology they bring to the table.

*Please add any other US made straight pull rifles I may not have thought of if you are so inclined.

Not American, but there was this…

 

[Roller]

To respond to your concern I am a Blaser enthusiast and have never worked in the firearms industry other than helping with instruction in defensive handgun for which I've never accepted compensation.

I came upon Blasers while looking for a rifle in 8x68s, a caliber not to common in the USA. I did stress and agonize about the expense of a Blaser and even had buyers remorse during California's mandatory ten day waiting period. Once I had the rifle in hand the agony and stress quickly evaporated and it is now my go to rifle. I have since acquired more Blasers.

If a person has no interest in Blasers or does not like something about them, then great to each their own. I like them a lot. So it is only right that I share what I have found to be good. If someone has found something wrong about them then please share that too. But those who spew unfounded faults and prejudices I find childish.

I don't think you're the "marketer" (Lol) , and I don't think there is anything "wrong" with them. To each his own indeed. I just believe that if someone is going to get on a forum and start stealthily hyping products they have a stake in , (whether it's Blasers or Rigbys.....same company btw), they should make their stake known, so that one can make a more unbiased view of their assessment. Maybe I'm completely off base and am just an untrusting soul. But there was a guy on here hyping Steyrs a while back that turns out was associated with the importer for Steyrs. I have a Steyr (fine rifle) , but I would take that guy's opinion with a grain of salt.

 

[One Day...]

I have always wondered when reading these Blaser threads, do any of the regular commenters have any type of a financial or related interest in the company or an importer. etc.? If so, may be time to open the kimono. Some posts almost sound like stealth marketing. Or maybe it's just extreme, passionate love for an ugly ass gun.

I was not sure if this was a joke or not, but since dchamp answered, I will too. I certainly do NOT feel like I have to "justify" myself, but if someone would have taken this question seriously, they could wish for an answer. And why not!?!?

The straight answer is: oh I only wish!

No TV show for me, no publication, no free rifle, no discount, no check, no kickback, no free safari, no Lord knows what, NO NOTHING...

You can track every Blaser component I own with Mark Schrader of Mad Dog Gun, the largest Blaser on-line dealer (see GunBroker.com) and Bob Turkovich at Cove Creek Outfitter (the lowest price retailer that I know of in the US - I bought my first R8 Pro .375 H&H from him for $3,000 (now $3,300 in any standard barrel caliber up to .375 H&H). I always paid full public price with both

Keeping a sharp eye out for "used-as new" deals...

The only break I ever got on a Blaser component was not a kickback break but a lucky break in a private transaction when I bought "used-as new" my R8 PH stock (steel receiver) on GunBroker from a guy who had bought it because he wanted a 22 mm channel for a .223 match barrel and realized a week later that he could get one easily with an alloy receiver. He asked $2,000 for the stock (the price for his replacement alloy receiver stock), and I jumped on it because MSRP for the steel receiver stock that I wanted for a .458 Lott barrel was $4,500 ($4,888 today)

Knowing what to buy...

The only person I know at Blaser is Andrej Gorjup their Gunsmith and Technical Service Manager, and the only two reasons I know him is that I pestered him a few times to get answers to my questions before I bought a R8 (my main issue was: do you need a steel receiver stock to shoot DG calibers, yes or no? Turns out that no you do NOT! Steel only brings weight not strength. This was the turning point for me because I could get a R8 .375 for $3,000 (now $3,300), and NOT $7,500 or whatever it was)

He later cut down 1.5" from my wife's R8 Pro stock, very well I might add, but he certainly charged me for it

My own rationale...

I have shared it a few times, my own rationale is traveling with 3 calibers to Africa. And sure I can schlep a monster gun trunk as well as the next guy, and I can pay the oversize and overweight fee as much as the next guy - and I guess that there are also guys who like to be bound and flogged during sex - but I do not have a masochistic streak a mile wide...

Final thought...

I expect that Blaser probably does not like me very much. Sure, I did what many probably view as a positive review, but I was very objective on what the rifle offers and does not offer, and I explained why I cared for, or not, each characteristic. But I continue to critic severely Blaser for their pricing strategy of whatever relates to Africa being 3x more expensive than standard components. I have said it, and I say it again, to me it is taking advantage of the African safari clientele (because it is assumed to be wealthy, I presume).

I was not in the market for a $7,500 Blaser .375 H&H but I was a happy buyer of a $3,000 ($3,300 today) Blaser .375 H&H. I see it as well worth MY money. After all it is only $300 more than an upgraded & tuned up CZ 550 (of which I still happily own 3)

To each our own. It really does not affect my life one way or another what other people shoot. I just enjoy AfricaHunting.com as a cheap therapy to retain a modicum of sanity waiting for the next big plane to Africa...


If sharing what I know helps others go to Africa, it just makes me happy because it pushes back that day when all hunting will finally be outlawed, everywhere. If my experience, choices, logic, etc. is not useful, folks are free to ignore my choices and my rationales. Lord I wish, Blaser, CZ, Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski, Steyr Mannlicher, Sauer, Sony Camera, Mauser, Streamlight, Puma, etc. would have sent me a check every time I said something good about them...

 

[TTundra]

You hunt pigs without a backup 10mm or something like it? BTW I can do my R8 trigger group change quicker I can record it. Quicker than I can draw my 10mm or 7.5FK.

I'm guessing theres some sarcasm here. However, if you truly can drop an R8 mag/fcg and insert a new one faster than you can draw a pistol, I truly would like to see that. I shoot a Brno PSD, and while some heft, Im still quicker drawing and firing than a mag change for an AR. A speed R8 reload would be fun to watch, and possibly diminish more of what naysayers claim

 

[IvW]

You hunt pigs without a backup 10mm or something like it? BTW I can do my R8 trigger group change quicker I can record it. Quicker than I can draw my 10mm or 7.5FK.

You need hand gun training......

 

[Shako Badhan]

I have been following this thread for some time and now having been a R8 owner for a bit I thought I would throw in my two cents. My view is that the R8 is a good choice for the traveling hunter who needs more then one caliber on a hunt or wants the same manual of arms to aid in proficiency. I got an R8 for these reasons and was lucky to find a full R8 kilombero kit for half the price it would have been new. With the 300 WM and 375 H&H barrels I should be covered for most trips.

Now if most of the hunting I did on was just a truck ride away and if I was mostly backing other hunters in close range situations I would have probably not chosen the R8. I would have probably gone with a large bore Mauser with open sights or a double, my personal preference. The Blaser is great rifle and extremely accurate, but it is a jack of all trades and a master of none.

Probably it’s greatest flaw is that it’s flexibility makes it hard to justify adding more rifles to the safe, not that it has stopped me.

 

[Challer]

You need hand gun training......

Oh good grief, Really? I assure you I could train you. Stop

 

[Challer]

I'm guessing theres some sarcasm here. However, if you truly can drop an R8 mag/fcg and insert a new one faster than you can draw a pistol, I truly would like to see that. I shoot a Brno PSD, and while some heft, Im still quicker drawing and firing than a mag change for an AR. A speed R8 reload would be fun to watch, and possibly diminish more of what naysayers claim

No sarcasm at all. I bought the PSD just for pigs. Now for your R8, if you really think you need it, cradle in your left hand between 2nd/3rd fingers. Just like a double. That said, if I’m going in the brush it’s the PSD and F9

 

[TTundra]

No sarcasm at all. I bought the PSD just for pigs. Now for your R8, if you really think you need it, cradle in your left hand between 2nd/3rd fingers. Just like a double. That said, if I’m going in the brush it’s the PSD and F9

I certainly agree you can train to be quick with an R8. Just not quicker than a pistol draw. However, if wrong, I'd gladly watch a video of you performing them as that would be a feat not to miss.