9.3X62 for Cape Buffalo?

[Rick Cox]

You should see my post. ..

thanks for the info. i did wonder about feeding when i looked at the shape of them in the photos. same as you with speed and lighter weight. one more , if you have used them how do the protected point compare to the weldcore softs, this is in 9.3x62? as for using it on buff i think its whether the ph is ok with it, and if you shoot it well then i have a feeling there wouldnt be a problem, you might need a rifle on your permit showing minimum .375 to keep the authority issuing the hunting licences happy though, cheers mike p.s. just realised i put 9.6x62 , obviously meant 9.3x62....bit of brain fade me thinks........

 

[flatwater bill]

Shootist43..................once you have killed buffalo, they take on mythical toughness and become almost bullet proof. Makes the buff killers feel special. In reality, they, like all animals, are flesh and blood. Nosler Reloading Guide N0 7 says that with equal 250 grain bullets, the Whelen case holds 62.2 grains of water, the 9.3 holds 62.5. I have shot a lot of heavy jacketed 300 grain bullets out of my Whelen at 2290 fps. I haven't used it on buff......there are better choices in my gun safe.....but it probably would not bounce off.............good hunting..................FWB

 

[Rule 303]

Daga Boy, I have not heard of the 9.3X64 or the 375H&H being bullet eaters unless you are using soft points to break heavy bone. I would then have to ask why when a solid is more appropriate. Paper or not, going by a bloke here in Aust who shoots more game , pigs and scrub bulls, in a couple of years then most people shoot in 20 years the difference on animals between the two is quite noticeable. Yes these are not Elephant or Hippo. Slow the two down to original velocities and the 375 would still be a lot more gun than the 9.3X62. Would I hunt Elephant with a 375 H&H/Ruger, yes, would I hunt an Ele with a 9.3X62 or 35Whelen, No. I am no Bell or Don Heath. With their experience, knowledge and shooting abilities then the answer would be hell yes. By this I am referring to being able to take a brain shot from any angle the brain could be shot from. I dips me lid to those who can do this.

 

[leslie hetrick]

after haveing shot a buffalo with the 9.3x62 in a old ms, I thought it was enough rifle, but my buffalo was not aware I was there and it was a standing shot and I took the top of the heart off and it still ran and I broke its back on the second shot. but I think the 35 whelen with a good 250gr bullet at 2500fps would have got the job done. I was backed up by a 375 H&H mag just in case. what I have seen on the hunting shows is that once riled up and getting a bad shot into them they can become a totally different animal and need to be killed quickly, else some one else may get stomped to death.

 

[jand]

Daga Boy, I have not heard of the 9.3X64 or the 375H&H being bullet eaters unless you are using soft points to break heavy bone. I would then have to ask why when a solid is more appropriate. Paper or not, going by a bloke here in Aust who shoots more game , pigs and scrub bulls, in a couple of years then most people shoot in 20 years the difference on animals between the two is quite noticeable. Yes these are not Elephant or Hippo. Slow the two down to original velocities and the 375 would still be a lot more gun than the 9.3X62. Would I hunt Elephant with a 375 H&H/Ruger, yes, would I hunt an Ele with a 9.3X62 or 35Whelen, No. I am no Bell or Don Heath. With their experience, knowledge and shooting abilities then the answer would be hell yes. By this I am referring to being able to take a brain shot from any angle the brain could be shot from. I dips me lid to those who can do this.

Sir , the 375 H&H will definitely not give you an advantage over the 9.3 x 62 on an Elephant with a bad shot. They are equally reliant on shot placement. If you want to get a slight advantage with bad bullet placement then go to the heavies ( 500 caliber and up ) , and even these have limitations .
I have seen Elephant stumble and fall after a 900 gr solid from a 600 NE just missed the brain. He immediately got up again....

 

[Rule 303]

Sir , the 375 H&H will definitely not give you an advantage over the 9.3 x 62 on an Elephant with a bad shot. They are equally reliant on shot placement. If you want to get a slight advantage with bad bullet placement then go to the heavies ( 500 caliber and up ) , and even these have limitations .
I have seen Elephant stumble and fall after a 900 gr solid from a 600 NE just missed the brain. He immediately got up again....

True a bad shot is a bad shot no matter the calibre, but if a hart/lung shot is taken then the 375 has more going for it. Lager diameter pill, more energy to transmit a pressure wave through the blood to the brain if the hart is full. The bigger the hole the quicker the blood gets out. Might only but a small difference in diameter but it counts.

 

[Mark R]

I have an appointment with a hippo in S.A. in July and was informed not to bring my 9.3 for the job as it isn't legal......

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[IvW]

Mmm, reality is that you cant actually gauge performance on paper and sometimes things work the opposite to what one might think. eg , both the 9.3 x 64 Brenneke and the 375H&H (moderrn loads, not original) had reputations as "bullet eaters", especially on heavy bones - like elephant heads , for example. The 9.3 x 64 has pretty much disappeared but the 375 H&H has remained, and the problems of bullet fragmentation , fishtailing, etc continued. (You can find reports in old copies of a few African hunting mags).
Don Heath ("Ganyana") discovered that the the problem could be cured by reducing the muzzle velocity of the 375 H&H by about 200fps, bringing the cartridge back to its original spec. He was also a big fan of the 9.3 x 62, which has never been known as a bullet eater. Few people have had the amount of real life experience that he had, so that is my point of reference. (Note that current 9.3 x 62 performance is pretty much exactly the same as original 375 H&H spec, which is what the 375 built its fame on.)
The tendency here now is to load the 375H&H with heavier bullets (350-380gr) for big game applications. This reduces velocity at the same time increasing penetration. So loaded the 375 is not far off the .416 Rem. - which is my preferred calibre for dangerous game - but now I am getting a bit off Piste.
As far as the 35 Whelan is concerned, it is basically unknown on this side of the pond, so I am not aware of any reports of its performance. Also, it is not legal for use on dangerous game in any country that I am aware of.
I should add that a lot of this minimum calibre thing is a bit misguided and actually based on the performance of cartridges and bullets prior to the second world war (or earlier). I say this specifically because the reality is that the .338WM (a smaller calibre than the 9.3 but a more powerful cartridge) actually does a fantastic job on buffalo, hippo, etc (no reports about elephant but I cant imagine there would be a problem, especially with a brain shot). In fact the only problem that it exhibits is "over penetration" - as in maybe getting two buffalo with one shot (which has happened).
Modern monometal bullets have also significantly affected the potential of old cartridges, turning them into completely different animals.
It should also not be forgotten that many elephants were taken with the humble 7 x 57 Mauser - notably by "Karamojo" Bell, but he was not alone in this.
So the reality is that these minimum calibre restrictions could do with a total review.
Food for thought.

Sounds like you are talking in circles.

Nobody uses the old Kynoch non bonded bullets anymore. Nowadays there are so many good premium grade bullets available.

a 286 gr .366 bullet has the same sectional density (.305) as a 300 gr .375 bullet this is what gives them penetration. The 9.3 @ about 2300 fps and the 375 @ about 2500 fps.

As for being "bullet eaters" and "especially on heavy bones - like elephant heads , for example. The 9.3 x 64 has pretty much disappeared but the 375 H&H has remained, and the problems of bullet fragmentation , fishtailing, etc continued." I do not know where you get this from but I and clients who have used my 2 x 375 H&H with brass meplat solids in 300 gr and 340 gr on many elephant and I can assure you none of them have shown any of these signs, in fact they all whistled through an elephant skull with side brain shots. A 375 H&H so loaded will just about out penetrate anything else.

Premium grade 375 H&H expanding bullets also do not fragment or fishtail unlike old style unbonded bullets which are bad performers in any caliber.

Yes the heavyweight bullets in 375 H&H are the better way to go for DG hunting and they perform exceptionally well. 350 gr and 380 gr Rhinos are exceptional and work better than 270 and 300 grainers on bufalo as well as lion.

High sectional density(heavy for caliber), premium grade bullets at respectable velocity will always outperform lighter non premium grade bullets loaded to higher velocities.

If the 375 H&H had so many issues it would never have become the King of the medium bores. It still is the King and it is the most recommended caliber for clients and more DG is hunted with it than any other caliber to this day.

The 9.3 x 62 is a great caliber and there are also heavyweight bullets available for it, however it does not make the minimum caliber cut for DG in all countries.

 

[HWL]

..another 9,3x62... not made for cape buffalo, but fine for hunting pigs & deer in europe.

The rifle is made from an "Imperial Gewehr 98" made by Mauser Oberndorf.
It saw service in First and Second World War, and collected an impressive "trophy list" in the process.
It was buryed for several years after the second world war and sufferd substantial damage on metal parts, stock was completely gone.
It was not thrown away, because it is a family heritage.
The salvaged remains went to Ferlach, Austria, barrel was cut to 20 " and converted from 8x57IS to 9,3x62.
It serves me in third generation, ....waiting for the Russians.... making a mistake.



HWL

 

[Rule 303]

That is a nice looking rifle. I most certainly like the stock.

 

[7x57Joe]

I'll bet that little Mauser is handy in the deer woods! The bolt knob is unusual to me in that most I have seen has been flat on the bottom instead of top. The trigger guard is interesting also.

 

[spike.t]

You should see my post. ..

rick as the sat internet a bit slow can you tell me which post so i dont spend ages looking. cheers

 

[Red Devil]

I think that 9,3 x 62 is forgotten caliber for dangerous game. This caliber is a sensible alternative to 375 H&H.
9,3 x 62 slowly but steadily recovers its rightful place among the calibers for dangerous game.
9,3 x 62 is my favorite caliber.
Witold

Well...

Thanks to RUGER/Lipsey's...?

249 other lucky (and knowledgeable) recipients also get the opportunity to participate.

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Red

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Beautiful rifles.

 

[leslie hetrick]

here,s what a heart shot looks like with a 375 H&H 260 gr bullet at 2650fps in a kudu.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Otto Krohnert , Wally Johnson and Tony Sanchez Arino have ALL used the 9.3 × 62 mm Mauser successfully on Cape Buffalo.
Don Heath ( Ganyana ) had one with a DETACHABLE MAGAZINE which he preferred to his Holland and Holland .404 Jeffery Mauser , and he used it to devastating effect.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Otto Krohnert , Wally Johnson and Tony Sanchez Arino have ALL used the 9.3 × 62 mm Mauser successfully on Cape Buffalo.
Don Heath ( Ganyana ) had one with a DETACHABLE MAGAZINE which he preferred to his Holland and Holland .404 Jeffery Mauser , and he used it to devastating effect.

I agree with you Hoss .

 

[Hoss Delgado]

I agree with you Hoss .

Thanks Witold

 

[Daga Boy]

Hoss knows his stuff. 9.3 x 62 is very popular over here, and for good reason. Its a great "go to" calibre for basically any African game animal, from a warthog to an elephant. Particularly good on buffalo and similar class game. ME from factory ammo is not quite up there with modern .375 loadings, but penetration and overall terminal effect are very much on par with .37hH&H. A big advantage is that the round and also the rifles themselves are more compact, making them great for bush use. In order to appreciate this, go into a gun store and pick up a CZ550 in .375H&H, and then pick up a 550 in a 9,3 x 62. The difference is pretty amazing.
Of course, you could buy a compact .375 (lie the Sako 85), but they kick like mules, and with the short barrels their ME is basically the same as that of the 9.3. The new Sako 9.3 x 66 is also an option; however it is a less efficient cartridge than either the 9.3 x 62 or 9.3x64 Brennneke, so quite a lot more bang for a relatively marginal gain in V0 and ME
I honestly think that 9.3 x 62 is the ideal all round bush and savannah gun , especially for a visiting hunter.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Hoss knows his stuff. 9.3 x 62 is very popular over here, and for good reason. Its a great "go to" calibre for basically any African game animal, from a warthog to an elephant. Particularly good on buffalo and similar class game. ME from factory ammo is not quite up there with modern .375 loadings, but penetration and overall terminal effect are very much on par with .37hH&H. A big advantage is that the round and also the rifles themselves are more compact, making them great for bush use. In order to appreciate this, go into a gun store and pick up a CZ550 in .375H&H, and then pick up a 550 in a 9,3 x 62. The difference is pretty amazing.
Of course, you could buy a compact .375 (lie the Sako 85), but they kick like mules, and with the short barrels their ME is basically the same as that of the 9.3. The new Sako 9.3 x 66 is also an option; however it is a less efficient cartridge than either the 9.3 x 62 or 9.3x64 Brennneke, so quite a lot more bang for a relatively marginal gain in V0 and ME
I honestly think that 9.3 x 62 is the ideal all round bush and savannah gun , especially for a visiting hunter.

Thanks , bro
I fired a 9.3 × 62 mm BRNO ZKK - 600 in France. Very popular there too