.458 Lott/CEB experiment a success

[Brandon.Gleason]

In preparation for next May's elephant hunt I wanted to try CEB Safari Solids in both a .458 Lott and .375 H&H. I haven't gotten around to the 375 yet, but the 458 group is below. This was 50 yards off of Gunstix with a Kahles Helia RD 2moa red dot sight. Bottom two are 500gr solids, top one a 470gr Raptor "soft." More than happy with this for elephant. Both projectiles were sent off with 70gr of RL-15 lit by an F215 primer. Had very similar results out of my hunting partner's Win M70 .416 Rem Mag with CEB 370gr Raptors and 400gr Solids. Thees things just seem to regulate so nicely together. Hoping to get out this Saturday with the 375 and 458 again and maybe remember my chronograph this time!

 

[Flipper Dude]

How do they feed for you? This is the BBW#13 I suppose?

 

[Brandon.Gleason]

I had a slight hang up coming off of the left rail. I had similar with any other 500gr conventional bullets (Hornady). The guns heading to Matrix Gunsmithing (took over for AHR for CZ upgrades) for an Upgrade 2. I’ll be sending dummy cartridges for feeding confirmation when it goes.

 

[Razorback]

I think you’ll be very happy with CEB solids for your elephant hunt as long as they feed properly. There’s not a better solid on the market IMHO.

 

[michael458]

Thees things just seem to regulate so nicely together.

As they are designed to do.............

Once the BBW#13 Solid design was completed, I needed a Trauma Inflicting bullet. As we know, we want the Trauma Bullet to hit same or close POI at 50 yards as the solids. Most bullet companies try to match weight to achieve that. I had a theory that it was not just weight, but bearing surface and bullet length played even a more major role to achieve POI. I told Dan at CEB to make the Raptors..(back then we called them Non-Cons.... For Non Conventional) the same exact bullet as the Solid, only we add the hollow point, a hex design that shears once inside 1.5-2 inches of aqueous medium. With the Raptor being the same as the solid, only with hollow cavity and lighter weight, same bearing surface, same length, I had high hopes POI would be the same as the Solids.......... And like magic it is in every caliber and every match... Each Safari Solid has a Matching Safari Raptor, from 416 all the way to .620 caliber...... and even in the small bore 375 and 9.3 as well..........

If you use the same load from your Solid to your Raptor POI will most of the time be the same, most of the time the same hole. Weight does equal pressure, so the Raptor being lighter will always be less pressure with the same load. Raptors are not normally much higher velocity with the same load as the solids, averaging 25-30 fps or so. In some rifles, just this slightly added velocity will cause the Raptor to print just above the solids. I always take the Raptor and add to the charge, increasing pressure and velocity. Sight in dead on at 50 with the Solid and the increased velocity of the Raptor will print 1/2-3/4 inch higher at 50, windage being the same. This was always the perfect combination for me, regardless of cartridge or caliber.........

Of the hundreds of calibers, cartridges and rifles that I have worked with, I have never once seen the Raptor not match up with the Solid at 50 yards...........

 

[Brandon.Gleason]

Thank you, Michael. Can you comment on your experience with the 450gr vs 500gr solids on heavy game like elephant and hippo?

 

[michael458]

I have used the 450s rather extensively on elephant, buffalo and hippo......... I never ever came up short with the 450s and felt like I needed more..... I have only shot a couple of elephants with the 450s, but a lot of buffalo and a few hippo. They will end to end on buffalo, they exit broadside elephant, they are good for any angle on elephant, buffalo or hippo...... You can run them a little faster than the 500s and they hit harder because of that as well. I normally recommend the 450s over the 500s regardless of type of 458 cartridge. The 450s are perfect for 458 Winchester and 458 B&M. I am loading some now in 458 Lott for a friend that is going for multiple buffalo. I had them running 2450 fps and under max pressures, but decided to slow them down a bit for my friend, to 2350 fps, which is more than enough to accomplish anything required of it. I never seen a need for anything but the 450s.........also the matching 420s just hammer the hell out of buffalo...........

 

[Brandon.Gleason]

Thank you, sir. I've ordered up a few boxes of each (420/450) to try out in the coming weeks.

 

[michael458]

Thank you, sir. I've ordered up a few boxes of each (420/450) to try out in the coming weeks.

Not sure what load you are using, I have been working with IMR 8208 from 76 to 80 gr in 458 Lott with the 450s........and that is from 2350-2440 fps.........up to 58000 PSI upper end........

I use a lot of 450s, my last order I got was 500 pieces.........and I swear I have already used 150 or more of them.... and that was just last fall and I have not fired a round since March....... LOL...........

 

[Brandon.Gleason]

the 470/500's I was using 70.0gr RL-15 over a Fed 215 in a Hornady case. No pressure signs and didn't bring a chrono with me. This came from data published by CEB upon request through their info email address.

 

[michael458]

the 470/500's I was using 70.0gr RL-15 over a Fed 215 in a Hornady case

I have never tested the 500s, but that would have been an extremely low pressure..... I have tested the 480s at 80/RL 15 in 2011 and 2013, for 2208 fps 44000 PSI in 2013...... RL 15 is notorious for change from keg to keg, much less lot to lot........ There could be an extreme difference between your RL 15 and what I had, and even currently have on hand...... data between RL 15 is hard to interchange because of that..... many of the RL powders are that way as well, although great powders and I use a lot, I always blend a large batch of it together, then test that batch.......

If you have anything other than RL 15, I would recommend something else for the 450s/420s.......for 458 Lott........

 

[michael458]

In 458 Lott with the 450 Solids I have data with TAC, IMR 8208, RL 15, IMR 4320, AA2520, IMR 4064, IMR 4895, H-4895, V-N530.............if it will help........

 

[Brandon.Gleason]

I'd certainly appreciate the data you have for RL15. I'll PM you an email address. I'm very light on 4064 and don't have any of the other listed powders. I'm heavy on H4831, IMR 4831, H4350, IMR 4350, Varget and RL15.

 

[Flipper Dude]

IDK about ballistic gel, but it went through about 8 ft of elephant.

 

[Aaron N]

View attachment 470049
IDK about ballistic gel, but it went through about 8 ft of elephant.

You could clean that and load it back up again!