458 Flat Nosed Solids For Elephant

TOBY458

AH legend
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
4,445
Reaction score
12,694
Location
Madison Georgia, USA
Media
203
Articles
3
Hunting reports
Africa
6
I am considering taking my Winchester 70 458 Win Mag with 450 gr Cutting Edge solids for my tuskless ele/ Buffalo hunt next year. Do any of you have experience with this bullet and bullet weight in the 458? I will also most likely use the same rifle with 450 gr TSX on Cape Buffalo on the same hunt. Both of these bullets should yield around 2250 fps in the 458 WM. I would think this should be plenty of punch for both animals. Opinions?
 
Before I had my Win Mag reamed to a Lott, I was given some Peregrine flat nosed 450 gr bullets loaded to 2300 fps in Win Mag cases. The guy who gave them to me is on a conservancy and they had culled 20 + elephant with that combo. Big bulls included. He had no reservations recommending them to me. Not many people can draw on a sample size that big.

I also managed to get 480 gr flat nosed peregrines to 2145 fps. Currently with the same rifle reamed to Lott, I have Peregrine 515 gr solids at 2195 fps. That is my carry round while doing photographic guiding.

So for bullet performance, I think your choice will be excelent-just make sure your rifle feeds flat nose solids- most do not !
 
I am considering taking my Winchester 70 458 Win Mag with 450 gr Cutting Edge solids for my tuskless ele/ Buffalo hunt next year. Do any of you have experience with this bullet and bullet weight in the 458?
@michael458 this is something I wish you would chime in on. Thanks!
@michael458, any thoughts here to share ?

That would be, and has been my First Choice on such endeavors, and that is regardless of 458 caliber Cartridge, Lott, Winchester, B&M, does not matter, the 450 #13 Solid (as we used to refer to it) is #1. The other #1 Choice is the Solid that John and I worked on from North Fork, which I still have a small supply of, and that likely none of you can obtain unfortunately. It is nearly identical to the #13 Cutting Edge bullet, slightly different angle on the nose.

With properly designed bullets, in .458 caliber, regardless of the case/cartridge capacity, you do not and will never need more than a 450 gr bullet. End of story........

DSC07521-L.jpg


The last elephant I took was hit with one of these 450 Solids broadside heart shot. I was crouched down on my knees at 12 yards almost squeezing trigger for a frontal brain shot, wind shifted and the bull took off from left to right, I shifted aim to broadside heart shot, and only chance for one shot and the elephant disappeared into the brush. Followup was less than 25 yards and the bull was down for the count...... The 450 #13 Cutting Edge was doing just over 2200 fps in a 18 inch Winchester M70 458 B&M. The bullet passed completely through the broadside shot and still running around in Zimbabwe somewhere I imagine, absolutely 100% Perfect Performance.

P1020078aa-L.jpg
S1120016aa-L.jpg


We stumbled upon this big bull hippo taking a nap about 75 yards off the lake shore. We were sneaking around looking for a croc, and now between this bull and the lake. At 15 yards I hit him in the brain with a 250 Socom from that same 18 inch 458 B&M, the 250 was moving at 2900 fps, there was no time to change out loads, the bull went down immediately, with brain matter squirting out both ears for over 6 ft in both directions. Before I knew that however, I followed up with a 450 Solid on the point of the shoulder as an insurance shot, just in case, I believe in paying up the insurance. The bullet was later recovered in the far side rear hindquarters of the animal, estimated 6 feet of travel after busting the point of the shoulder to pieces.

P1020131aa-L.jpg
DSC02279-L.jpg


I never got to hunt this bullet, but I have zero doubts of its abilities...........This is the bullet that John from North Fork and I worked on before North Fork was moved........... Take special note of the band configuration............

DSC02911-M.jpg


Now I know for a fact what Bullets I would choose, what you choose is up to you...........

As a side note, for buffalo the Matching Raptor for the 450 Solid is the 420 Safari Raptor....... It handles buffalo quite well, and has the same exact POI as the solid at 50 yards, since they are the same bullet, the only difference is the Raptor has the Hollow Cavity making it 420 grains. Don't get caught up in penetration of lighter Raptors, this bullet will still penetrate over 4 feet of buffalo, after destroying everything in its path............I have shot many a buffalo with this combination, the only ones I have ever recovered was from frontal shots, I don't ever remember recovering a 450 Solid.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
My 45-90 took ele and buff with two different 450 grain flat nose solids - North Fork and Punch shot through head into the body behind. The 450 can do the job at a modest 2100 fps.
Those loads also shot through most buff.
 
@michael458 this is something I wish you would chime in on. Thanks!
FYI...... I have rather extensive load and pressure data on the 450 #13 Solid in 458 Winchester if you need some assistance, used and tested 20+ different Powders, so chances are I tested a suitable powder that you may have on hand.....
 
FYI...... I have rather extensive load and pressure data on the 450 #13 Solid in 458 Winchester if you need some assistance, used and tested 20+ different Powders, so chances are I tested a suitable powder that you may have on hand.....
Thanks so much for your in depth reply! Yes, I may need some loads if you have them handy. I think I have RL7, RL15, RL19, RL22, Varget, H335 and H4895 on hand at the moment.
If you were hunting tuskless ele and buffalo, which would you choose between a 416 Rem Mag and a 458 Win Mag? I have taken buffalo with 375 and 416 before with great results. But never hunted elephant as of yet.
 
I have RL7, RL15, RL19, RL22, Varget, H335 and H4895 on hand at the moment.

Of the powders you listed, H-4895 is the best choice. I was able to get 2285 fps at 60600 PSI with one load. IMR 8208, X-Terminator, AA 2230 all gave excellent results as well.

If you were hunting tuskless ele and buffalo, which would you choose between a 416 Rem Mag and a 458 Win Mag?
Easy, 458 all the way..........
I have taken buffalo with 375 and 416 before with great results.
Hmmm....... How about that.......I would not give you 50 cents for every 375 anything that has ever been made. I will not even allow one here on the compound. The very mention of (375) makes me want to puke.......
 
Of the powders you listed, H-4895 is the best choice. I was able to get 2285 fps at 60600 PSI with one load. IMR 8208, X-Terminator, AA 2230 all gave excellent results as well.


Easy, 458 all the way..........

Hmmm....... How about that.......I would not give you 50 cents for every 375 anything that has ever been made. I will not even allow one here on the compound. The very mention of (375) makes me want to puke.......
Thanks for the info!
375 375 375 375 375......375. Have you puked yet??? Hahahaha!
 
I thought you were selling that sweet looking 458?
 
Have you puked yet??? Hahahaha!
All over the front of my shirt..... what a nasty mess.......... HEH.............be glad you are @TOBY458 and have a 458 backing you up, if that said 375 I would not even speak to you.........

When you are ready to Load Up real bullets and cartridges, let me know, will clue you in where to start, and end...........
 
All over the front of my shirt..... what a nasty mess.......... HEH.............be glad you are @TOBY458 and have a 458 backing you up, if that said 375 I would not even speak to you.........

When you are ready to Load Up real bullets and cartridges, let me know, will clue you in where to start, and end...........
I have the Barnes manual that shows the 450gr Banded solid loading data. How close would that be to the cutting edge safari solid in the same weight?
 
I have the Barnes manual that shows the 450gr Banded solid loading data. How close would that be to the cutting edge safari solid in the same weight?
I can't even begin to tell you the last time I opened a Loading Manual from anyone, it has been many years, if not decades.......

But, I do in fact have a Barnes #3 Manual....... Not sure how old that one is....? Here is the jest of what I see, they only two powders that I tested, RL 7 and IMR 3031. The RL 7 is off by 4 grains, but that is nothing, as you have tremendous variances in RL 7 from one pound to the next, regardless of date, and regardless of lot#. RL 7 is one of those powders that you really have to be careful with, you cannot by any stretch of the imagination use data from one keg to the next, much less from one year to the next..... I use a lot of RL 7 in various cartridges. Normally I take 15-25 lbs at a time, dump it all together, mix and blend it well, then use data on THAT BATCH of RL 7 until it runs out.......

The IMR 3031 data in #3 is within 2 grains of my data on max.

If the data in #3 was H-4895 instead of IMR 4895, it was be dead on the money with my data.

So I am not sure what Barnes Manual you are looking at? Or data in it, if its not #3..........#3 looks to be 20 years old....... LOL........

Example of a recent Blending.........

DSCN1810-X3.jpg
DSCN1815-X3.jpg
DSCN1818-X3.jpg
DSCN1819-X3.jpg


These blends were close, but not close enough. Each has their own data. My Lot# is the Date that it was blended.........

And I use a Oehler System 83 to do Pressure tests............

DSCN0393-X3.jpg
DSCN1534-X3.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oh you take load testing to the next level. Nice source of information.
 
I am considering taking my Winchester 70 458 Win Mag with 450 gr Cutting Edge solids for my tuskless ele/ Buffalo hunt next year. Do any of you have experience with this bullet and bullet weight in the 458? I will also most likely use the same rifle with 450 gr TSX on Cape Buffalo on the same hunt. Both of these bullets should yield around 2250 fps in the 458 WM. I would think this should be plenty of punch for both animals. Opinions?
Should work great brother!
 

Forum statistics

Threads
54,537
Messages
1,157,241
Members
94,342
Latest member
jnewb33485
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

FDP wrote on gearguywb's profile.
Good morning. I'll take all of them actually. Whats the next step? Thanks, Derek
Have a look af our latest post on the biggest roan i ever guided on!


I realize how hard the bug has bit. I’m on the cusp of safari #2 and I’m looking to plan #3 with my 11 year old a year from now while looking at my work schedule for overtime and computing the math of how many shifts are needed….
Safari Dave wrote on Kevin Peacocke's profile.
I'd like to get some too.

My wife (a biologist, like me) had to have a melanoma removed from her arm last fall.
Grat wrote on HUNTROMANIA's profile.
Hallo Marius- do you have possibilities for stags in September during the roar? Where are your hunting areas in Romania?
 
Top