416 REM

[Killingtime]

Hey everyone I had been thinking I was going to take my 375 with me next year to Africa however I have been considering getting a 416 in a earlier thread I did asking about the 416 Taylor id mentioned a labrum issue with my shoulder. I’m looking to be able to shoot what I want while managing long term issues that may arise.

As many have said the 375 has killed everything in the continent but I’m curious if a 416 rem can be loaded to handle DG with the 350gr bullets.

I shoot a 458 win from time to time and as long as not off a bench and a bunch of shoots I haven’t had any more discomfort in my shoulder.. mostly looking to preserve long term.

When I ran some 416 rem 350gr loads through a recoil calculator it showed a 10.5lb rifle with Speer 350gr And various charge weights with velocities between 2600-2800 (which seemed more then adequate having recoil between 39lbs and 47lbs

That’s not far off from most 375’s especially the ruger in a bit lighter rifle. And quite a bit less then the 458.
Do you believe there is any benefit to a 416 with a 300-350 gr bullet on Dg over a 300gr 375 if the recoil is getting pretty close?

 

[375Fox]

Maybe with a monolithic bullet. But generally I’d say No, especially with lead core bullets. I think I’d use 350 gr bullets in 375 rather than 350 gr bullets in 416. I wouldn’t buy a new 416 to use 350 gr bullets. I’d also consider the recoil velocity. I find lighter bullets pushed fast have more perceived recoil than heavier bullets pushed slow.

 

[Jonathan Kashouty]

Yes a .416 RM can be loaded with 350 and/or 400 grain bullets for DG. Stay with your .375 as it is so much more versatile and fun to shoot. My .375 has run everything in plains game and my CB.

 

[matt85]

I use a 300gr TSX in my 416 RM and have killed a handfull of game with it. If memory serves me right, the average muzzle velocy of my load is 2700fps.

My favorite example if this loads performance is when i shot a blue wildebeest in the chest at around 50 yards. The animal reared up and fell over with what looked like a garden hose spraying blood from its chest. It flopped around for a second or so and was done. The bullet was found under the skin by the animals tail! All animals properly hit were flattened on the spot.

In terms of recoil... I cant really say. I dont consider any of the medium bore DG rifles to have much in the way if recoil when fired from properly made guns. If you find yourself in WA, i can let you try my rifle.

 

[Jonathan Kashouty]

And you already have or have access to a .458 WM.

 

[Killingtime]

And you already have or have access to a .458 Wm.

Yes a win70 I thought I would use that eventually on an elephant. The main reason I look at the bigger bores is it seemed like with modern bullets penetration doesn’t seem to be an issue and lighter bullets would reduce recoil while giving you the benefit of a wider bullet. Recoil has never been a problem for me but I’m cognizant of my shoulder now and trying to hedge against long term issues.


It seems like most people are on the side of the 375 so I may stay that route

 

[Green Chile]

Stay with the 375. It's the most practical one gun for all of Africa. Ammo is everywhere....most PH bakkies have a box or two of 375 in them.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

Shoulder problems are awful. So, don’t do anything to make that situation worse as the end result is a range of motion loss and constant pain. Surgery and rehab are no picnic. That said, I’ve loaded 340 gr Woodleigh’s in a Ruger No.1 .416 Rigby for plains game and they are effective. Bullet technology has advanced to a point that reports are lighter weight monometals are having great results over standard cup & core. Personally I prefer the .416 over the .375 for DG. I think you should move forward with the .416 Rem loading bullet technology and keeping velocity at a pedestrian level.

 

[skydiver386]

I'd stay with the 375.

Once you have physical problems that are exacerbated by heavy recoil, it's a very slow path back, and the older you get the worse it gets.

The 375 will more than do the job and you might want to consider a form of physical therapy that repairs your joints. I've found a few videos of physical therapy exercises that help with rotator cuff injuries and anything else joint related. Light workouts, stretching and your own therapy sessions with online videos will keep you in good shape well into your senior years.

 

[UpNorthMI]

After completing a hunt in Australia last year with my son where we shot 32 buffalo and quite a few camels it soon became apparent that a 400 grain .416 bullet significantly out performed 300 grain .375 bullets in terms of real world stopping power. I was shooting a .500/.416 NE double rifle and he was shooting a Blaser R8 in .375 H&H.

As soon as we returned I wanted to buy a bolt action .416 rifle. I finally settled on a Blaser R8 in .416 Rem Mag fitted with their recoil dampening system "kick stop". On first shooting the rifle with 400 grain ammo I could not believe that it shot with less felt recoil than a standard Blaser R8 in .375 H&H.

If you are not opposed to Blaser rifles this could be a great solution for you, I'd be happy to let you shoot the .416 with kick stop if you find yourself in Michigan.

Good luck finding a solution.

 

[375Fox]

After completing a hunt in Australia last year with my son where we shot 32 buffalo and quite a few camels it soon became apparent that a 400 grain .416 bullet significantly out performed 300 grain .375 bullets in terms of real world stopping power. I was shooting a .500/.416 NE double rifle and he was shooting a Blaser R8 in .375 H&H.

As soon as we returned I wanted to buy a bolt action .416 rifle. I finally settled on a Blaser R8 in .416 Rem Mag fitted with their recoil dampening system "kick stop". On first shooting the rifle with 400 grain ammo I could not believe that it shot with less felt recoil than a standard Blaser R8 in .375 H&H.

If you are not opposed to Blaser rifles this could be a great solution for you, I'd be happy to let you shoot the .416 with kick stop if you find yourself in Michigan.

Good luck finding a solution.

I wouldn’t disagree but he’s specifically asking about 300 and 350 gr bullets in 416 not 400 gr.

 

[DLSJR]

I may be coming at this with a bit different perspective since I hunt with both a .375 H&H and a .416 Hoffman AND I’ve had major shoulder surgery on my shooting shoulder for a torn rotator cuff.

A Labrum tear is nothing to take lightly and I’d stay away from the .416 until you get it fixed and rehabbed. The recoil of the .416 is very noticeably more than the .375. And a .375 with quality bullets is fine for buffalo. I’d focus on doing things to reduce the recoil of your .375, like a mercury recoil reducer and possibly a suppressor instead of getting a .416. If you’re not careful you stand a chance of tearing your labrum worse than it is.

The other thing I suggest is getting with a good physical therapist now, ideally someone who focuses on athletes (baseball especially if you can find one) and get in a program with that PT that focuses on building strength in all your upper body while protecting your affected shoulder. Greater overall strength in your chest, back, shoulder, arm will better support the injured area. That’ll have a lot to do with how well your shoulder handles the recoil. One final thing - do not shoot either gun sitting at a bench until your shoulder is fixed. Get a good set of sticks and do all your shooting standing until you fix that shoulder.

You don’t need a .416.

 

[Killingtime]

After completing a hunt in Australia last year with my son where we shot 32 buffalo and quite a few camels it soon became apparent that a 400 grain .416 bullet significantly out performed 300 grain .375 bullets in terms of real world stopping power. I was shooting a .500/.416 NE double rifle and he was shooting a Blaser R8 in .375 H&H.

As soon as we returned I wanted to buy a bolt action .416 rifle. I finally settled on a Blaser R8 in .416 Rem Mag fitted with their recoil dampening system "kick stop". On first shooting the rifle with 400 grain ammo I could not believe that it shot with less felt recoil than a standard Blaser R8 in .375 H&H.

If you are not opposed to Blaser rifles this could be a great solution for you, I'd be happy to let you shoot the .416 with kick stop if you find yourself in Michigan.

Good luck finding a solution.

I have never owned a r8 but look at them all the time. They seem like a really cool rifle for a one and done approach. I appreciate the offer. I was just in Michigan for work but I’m usually only there for a half a day and heading out again. Is the kick off system something that can be installed in other rifles or is that completely unique to Blaser?

 

[Killingtime]

I'd stay with the 375.

Once you have physical problems that are exacerbated by heavy recoil, it's a very slow path back, and the older you get the worse it gets.

The 375 will more than do the job and you might want to consider a form of physical therapy that repairs your joints. I've found a few videos of physical therapy exercises that help with rotator cuff injuries and anything else joint related. Light workouts, stretching and your own therapy sessions with online videos will keep you in good shape well into your senior years.

I’m big on physical therapy whether on your own or at a center. In my experience motion is life and whenever I’m not moving and doing something for a period of time. Injuries and aches always come back.

 

[Killingtime]

I may be coming at this with a bit different perspective since I hunt with both a .375 H&H and a .416 Hoffman AND I’ve had major shoulder surgery on my shooting shoulder for a torn rotator cuff.

A Labrum tear is nothing to take lightly and I’d stay away from the .416 until you get it fixed and rehabbed. The recoil of the .416 is very noticeably more than the .375. And a .375 with quality bullets is fine for buffalo. I’d focus on doing things to reduce the recoil of your .375, like a mercury recoil reducer and possibly a suppressor instead of getting a .416. If you’re not careful you stand a chance of tearing your labrum worse than it is.

The other thing I suggest is getting with a good physical therapist now, ideally someone who focuses on athletes (baseball especially if you can find one) and get in a program with that PT that focuses on building strength in all your upper body while protecting your affected shoulder. Greater overall strength in your chest, back, shoulder, arm will better support the injured area. That’ll have a lot to do with how well your shoulder handles the recoil. One final thing - do not shoot either gun sitting at a bench until your shoulder is fixed. Get a good set of sticks and do all your shooting standing until you fix that shoulder.

You don’t need a .416.

I’ve considered going with a 375 ruger guide gun and adding a suppressor so the gun is not so long and unwieldy.

I had read on a thread in the past here that a mercury reducer was not allowed on planes because of mercury and aluminum having some chemical reaction. I do not know if that is true or how they would know that you have one.

If they are allowed then I’ll add that to a stock this year