.404 Jeffrey and .416 Rigby: which is bigger?

[NewForester]

Quick question: which is the bigger calibre?

I think I know that the answer is the .416 Rigby. Everyone says the recoil is higher.

But apparently, the real diameter of a .404 Jeffrey bullet is .422.

So, why is the .404 not regarded as a larger calibre and why does it not create more recoil?

 

[fourfive8]

Simple to figure out. Research basic load data for both. Use a common rifle weight about 12 lbs. for both rifles so you are comparing apples to apples. Use this link to a recoil calculator and fill in and compare. Also using an energy calculator on same site, compare muzzle energy of both.

JBM - Calculations - Recoil

www.jbmballistics.com

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

I have a 404Jeffery and I love this caliber.

 

[wipartimer]

Um...my .416 Rigby is bigger, but my wife's. 404 Jeffrey is more elegant?

 

[Professor Mawla]

.416 Rigby is the larger calibre and it possesses a ( marginally ) better sectional density ( not that it matters much in practicality ) than than the .404 Jeffery . This is because a 410 grain bullet of .416 calibre is more sectionally dense than a 400 grain bullet of .423 calibre . Of course , you are really splitting hairs here .

 

[IvW]

404 Jeff is larger in caliber.
It is loaded to lower velocity but can easily be loaded up to equal the 416 Rigby in the velocity department.
The higher velocity of the Rigby produces more recoil.

 

[IvW]

I prefer the 404 Jeffery....

 

[Certus]

.404 Jeffery = .423
.416 rigby = .416.

You can load a 404 Jeffery to equal the rigby, but then again that’s not a fair comparison because if you bump the rigby to that pressure then it’ll be faster than the Jeffery again. Bullet weights are 400gr for Jef, 410 for Rigby. Rigby has the bigger case.

There’s no point comparing them as they both perform identically with typical loads. Pic whichever you like the look of more.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

The OP is probably confused why the 404 has a bullet diameter of .423. The reason (I think) is that the 404 is measured by the land diameter, and the 416 is measured by the groove diameter. That why the 404 takes a .423 bullet. Also that’s why a 275 takes a .284 bullet.
I’m sure someone else can explain it better than I can.

 

[Frederik]

The 404 case also feeds easier than the 416 if reloading parts were more easily available I would bet more people would shoot the 404 than the 416 with milder recoil having same results.

 

[Ray B]

The Rigby has a considerably larger case (powder capacity) than the Jeffery. The bullets only differ in diameter by .007" and shoot the same bullet weights. So "all other things being equal" the case that takes more powder to get the same results and considerably more powder to exceed those results is going to have more recoil.

 

[rookhawk]

The 404 has 38-43 pounds of recoil. The 416 Rigby nearly doubles that. Both are grea, the 416 shoots flatter and provides longer distance versatility.

the bullet size isn’t a relevant difference but service pressure and velocity are.

 

[chashardy]

I have a London made Rigby in 416 and love it, but have never handled a 404 Jeff. There have been many, many, many threads on this comparison on AH and I have concluded that after tiny bits of technical spec difference, it's really a matter of personal preference. Shoot what you can accurately shoot.
Having said that, I would like the opportunity to shoot a 404 Jeff on the range along with my 416 Rigby so I can see what all the fuss is about. I have a feeling it's kinda like Ford truck guys and Chevy truck guys.

 

[Ray B]

I would like the opportunity to shoot a 404 Jeff on the range

There are several on AH that have 404s. Note the general area in which you reside and someone local will likely respond.

 

[rookhawk]

I have a London made Rigby in 416 and love it, but have never handled a 404 Jeff. There have been many, many, many threads on this comparison on AH and I have concluded that after tiny bits of technical spec difference, it's really a matter of personal preference. Shoot what you can accurately shoot.
Having said that, I would like the opportunity to shoot a 404 Jeff on the range along with my 416 Rigby so I can see what all the fuss is about. I have a feeling it's kinda like Ford truck guys and Chevy truck guys.

It’s not remotely a Chevy versus Ford debate.

45-70 and 458 winchester, roughly the same bullet so roughly the same thing, right?

Both are great calibers, but they are not the same and they do not shine for the same specialties although they can overlap in many duties. The 404 is a superior Buffalo caliber than a .375HH with roughly similar recoil. The .416 Rigby is designed for better performance on animals up to elephant yet it is also accurate and flat shooting enough for longer shots too.

I’ve owned both and both are wonderful, but they aren’t the same. If “big” means energy, recoil, and stopping power, the .416 has significantly more. If you don’t need that extra energy, the 404 and 450-400 are really pleasant to shoot and carry.

 

[TOBY458]

When people say that the 404 has a similar recoil to the 375 H&H, they are referring to the original ballistics of a 400gr bullet at 2150fps. The modern ballistics for the 404 is a 400gr bullet at 2300 fps. At this level the recoil will be very similar to any of the 416 class rifles. I currently own a 416 Rem Mag and have owned 416 Ruger, 416 Rigby and 404 Jeffery. The Rigby will have more recoil "on paper" due to the larger case capacity, but if all of these rounds are held to 2300 fps, In equally weighted rifles, I doubt you could tell much difference between any of them.

 

[postoak]

Define "larger".

 

[Rule 303]

The 404 case also feeds easier than the 416 if reloading parts were more easily available I would bet more people would shoot the 404 than the 416 with milder recoil having same results.

I also think that if the 404 rifles were as common -outside of Africa- as the 416 and priced similar there would be more 404's. When I was looking the CZ550 416 Rigby was a couple of thousand $ cheaper than the 404. Made my decision easy.

 

[PeteG]

When people say that the 404 has a similar recoil to the 375 H&H, they are referring to the original ballistics of a 400gr bullet at 2150fps. The modern ballistics for the 404 is a 400gr bullet at 2300 fps. At this level the recoil will be very similar to any of the 416 class rifles. I currently own a 416 Rem Mag and have owned 416 Ruger, 416 Rigby and 404 Jeffery. The Rigby will have more recoil "on paper" due to the larger case capacity, but if all of these rounds are held to 2300 fps, In equally weighted rifles, I doubt you could tell much difference between any of them.

You’re spot on.
I’ve fired my 416rigby and a 404 one after the other with almost no discernible difference in recoil.

 

[sambarhunter]

Define "larger".

Marilyn Monroe V Taylor Swift