400 Whelen

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@MedRiver,
Thank you so much for the posts. The blank basic 30-06 brass solves problems for 375 Whelen and for 400 Whelen. I have about 100 head stamped basic cases for 400 Whelen, but I haven'tbeen able to find any for the 375 Whelen. The field reports and pictures also much appreciated. I believe a 400gr would have broken the neck.

Thanks again


I swage bullets. You can make cup and core, partitions with bonded cores, open tips, soft points, FMJ. Anything with a bonded core whether partition or FMJ will likely retain nearly all their weight.

All these bullets are .416.

This picture shows the steps to swaging. Left to Right - Copper Tube (for jacket), Lead Core swaged into jacket, Finished Soft Point, Finished Open Tip

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4Secant Spitzer Ogive - L to R - 320gr Soft Point, 350gr Open Tip, 400gr Open Tip, All made with copper tubing jacket.

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4Secant Flat Tip Ogive - L to R - 415gr Flat Tip Soft Point, 325gr Flat Open Tip, both made with 308 brass for jacket.

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1-1/8 Elliptical (Round Nose) Ogive - L to R - 330gr Soft Point, 315gr Open Tip, both made with 308 brass for jacket. (You can still see annealing marks on brass. The entire case must be annealed before using as a jacket.

View attachment 744602

Since swaging dies are expensive and I shoot both 416 Ruger and 400 Whelen, I swage the bullets 416 diameter and then reduce as mentioned above. With jacketed bullets, you can reduce a maximum of 7-8 thousandths of an inch before concentricity and accuracy begin to suffer much. For lead bullet about half that. So from ,416 to .411 is no problem for hunting bullets.

@mgstucson
What is your jacket thickness and do you skive the inside to aid expansion.
Just curious
Bob

 

[mgstucson]

1. On the copper tubing, it can start out .050, 035, or .025 (depending if you use Type K, L or M tubing) when in cylinder form, when you swage a point on it, it gets a little thicker at the point. I have cutters to skive the inside of the jacket into a tapered thickness thinning at the mouth, or I can press the cutter straight into the mouth of the jacket and score 4 or 6 lines down the inside of jacket to start expansion at those points, or I can do both.

Barnes originals and many other bullets in the 1960's used copper tubing jackets.

*****They say Fred Barnes starting out in the 1930's used to drive one end of a 20 foot piece of copper tubing into a tapered hole in a steel plate. Once enough of the tube was through the steel plate, he would chain the plate to a tree, and chain the end of the tube to his car, and use the car to pull the tube through the plate to draw it down to the correct diameter for the jackets he wanted to make. This would not only size the tube, but would simultaneously work harden the copper at the same time. Then he would cut the drawn, hardened tube into jacket lengths, and swage'm up in his basement. Just a blast from the past on a little swaging trivia.****

2. If I use cartridge brass for the jacket, the cartridge brass usually starts out around .011 at the mouth and gets progressively thicker toward the base, and of course becomes solid brass at what was the case head. The entire cartridge case has to be annealed before you can swage that solid brass case head down to jacket diameter. Cartridge brass does not need skiving, but you can still score the inside of the mouth if you want. The solid brass case head on the cartridge cases becomes the base of the bullet. That can help accuracy on high pressure cartridges with long bullets where the base of the bullet tends to obturate (deform) slightly as the base leaves the case mouth and front of the bullet is being crammed into the rifling of the barrel when fired.

3. Commercial guilding metal jackets (as used in most factory bullets today) can be ordered in different wall thickness, but they are generally about .015 at the case mouth, then progress to about .020 at the base, depending on who makes the bullet jacket (Sierra, J4, Hines, Center X, or Corbins). All the above options can be used on these guilding metal jackets to encourage expansion as well.

4. You can also hollow point the lead core, Make a large vacant space under the open tip, fill the tip with frangible material like tungsten powder or shot (which is more dense than lead BTW) fill tip with #13 lead shot, make unbonded partitions, half bonded partitions, full bonded partitions, break away partitions, etc,

The ways to encourage, limit, insure or preclude expansion when you make your own bullets are many and varied.

 

[McDoone]

This is just a “what if” question. The 450/400 has a very reliable reputation on dangerous game in Africa. Thats promoted the interest in the 400 Whelen. My question is directed towards improving the Winchester 1895 for this use. The Miroku seems to be amply strong enough for 06 type ammo, having been chambered for the .270 Winchester with its 65000 lb operating pressure. (They didn’t sell, so they pulled it).
What if…this was rechambered for the 400 Whelen with the original correct shoulder (rather than the one that was screwed up later) and then run 9.3x74 brass? Only critical difference is the 9.3 has a 5.25 rim rather than the 5.45 of the 405. Would the rifle work with the smaller rim. The Whelen actually makes the required power with a 400 grain bullet quite easily as you all know.
And having been in a dangerous situation that I solved with a lever, I’ve never forgotten how effortless it was to empty a full magazine at ten feet.

 

[MedRiver]

I guess the question would be....why not just run the .400 Whelen as-is and not mess with the rimmed brass since the action is aleady set-up to feed non-rimmed .30-06 based cases?

Or do you already have a .405 Winchester you are looking to modify?

 

[McDoone]

That’s a great point! And I considered that, it’s obviously the best option. But these rifles, while available are super rare in my area. Sometimes you take what is there. And you can’t find anyone here willing to do barrel work on these guns. Although I admit I can’t say for sure. They sure don’t want to touch the BLR. The BLR is probably an easier option, especially for the Whelen.
Anyway it’s just an exercise. I wondered if anyone had considered this. I don’t plan on going to Africa, I have a few years left where I could, but….