35 Whelen

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

but bob,
you might be a bit biased.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
Bruce how unkind I'm not a bit biased I'm VERY biased. Yes I do like my Whelen.
Bob

 

[sestoppelman]

Really?? NO! Tell us it aint so!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Who needs a .375 magnum? Just have Ozzie Bob work you up some .35 Whelen loads! Magnum? We don't need no stinking magnum??

@sestoppelman
If'n the 350 Rigby was good enough for people in the good old days for everything why ain't a properly loaded Whelen do the same.
I rest my case you honour
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

"A gun is a tool. I am the weapon."

You and I have chatted enough for you to know I'me not much into the whiz-bang, lighting fast cartridges, either. My 6.5x55 Tikka is the fastest-shooter I own.

@ Sgt Zim
I know a lot of people who are tools and not really sharp at that.
Bob

 

[EfRed]

The .35W is a great round but I don't think its enough case to drive a 225 to 2800 fps within safe pressure limits. That would yield over 3900 ft/lbs of energy which is .338 WIn mag territory, or even low end .375 mag. My Barnes manual says with 24" test barrel, 59 grs of 4064 runs to 2700 fps. Even that will give nearly 3700 ft/lbs of ME, which is a lot out of an '06 case. Unless you have a really "fast" barrel I suspect your load over the clock is probably under 2700 fps, but you wont know if you don't chrono it. You should do that, I would be interested in what the clock says.

For the 35 Whelen, recent Speer reloading data on-line shows 2709 fps for a 250 gr Hot Cor using Alliant Power Pro 2000 MR; 2826 fps for 220 Hot Cor using Alliant Power Pro Varmint. Similarly, Speer shows over 3000 fps for a 270 gr bullet using Alliant Reloader 16 for 375 Ruger. These are max loads, presumably within pressure limits. Modern powder optimization boosts velocity for a given cartridge

If a one-rifle man ever needs 358 Norma performance, he can now have it from his 35 Whelen. That will negate some of the Whelen's virtues, though.

 

[sestoppelman]

For the 35 Whelen, recent Speer reloading data on-line shows 2709 fps for a 250 gr Hot Cor using Alliant Power Pro 2000 MR; 2826 fps for 220 Hot Cor using Alliant Power Pro Varmint. Similarly, Speer shows over 3000 fps for a 270 gr bullet using Alliant Reloader 16 for 375 Ruger. These are max loads, presumably within pressure limits. Modern powder optimization boosts velocity for a given cartridge

If a one-rifle man ever needs 358 Norma performance, he can now have it from his 35 Whelen. That will negate some of the Whelen's virtues, though.

I based the above on my own experience with this round. Obviously others (BOB), have taken it to the limit or as they used to say in STAR TREK, "to BOLDLY go where no man has gone before!".
When I loaded the round for a Mauser sporter I had, I was quite content to move a 250 Partition to just over 2500 fps and a 225 to about 2650.
I like the Whelen very much and currently on the lookout for a Rem 700 Classic so chambered. I see a few around for stupid high prices, so it may be a while looking.

 

[mdwest]

Those seem to be some pretty hot loads..

Im getting 2700 FPS out of a 200gr Nosler Accubond load.. and could probably squeeze another 100 FPS if I tried.. but I dont think I could get anywhere close to 2700 with a 225 or 250 gr load.. Using the powers I most often load with I think I'd be looking at 2500 max for a 250gr projectile..

 

[EfRed]

I based the above on my own experience with this round. Obviously others (BOB), have taken it to the limit or as they used to say in STAR TREK, "to BOLDLY go where no man has gone before!".
When I loaded the round for a Mauser sporter I had, I was quite content to move a 250 Partition to just over 2500 fps and a 225 to about 2650.
I like the Whelen very much and currently on the lookout for a Rem 700 Classic so chambered. I see a few around for stupid high prices, so it may be a while looking.

I agree your target velocity range - no sense hot rodding stuff, and I'm happiest well away from peak pressures. I have a Springfield that my Dad sporterized in the '50s, re-bored to 35 Whelen. A wonderful rifle, best play-off between power and recoil that I've seen. A very serious cartridge that doesn't hammer you.

To serve the need for stupid high price, I ordered a Hill Country Rifle in 35 Whelen on the Rebel Defiance action, modified for controlled feed and 3 position safety. Am eagerly awaiting its delivery!

 

[sestoppelman]

I agree your target velocity range - no sense hot rodding stuff, and I'm happiest well away from peak pressures. I have a Springfield that my Dad sporterized in the '50s, re-bored to 35 Whelen. A wonderful rifle, best play-off between power and recoil that I've seen. A very serious cartridge that doesn't hammer you.

To serve the need for stupid high price, I ordered a Hill Country Rifle in 35 Whelen on the Rebel Defiance action, modified for controlled feed and 3 position safety. Am eagerly awaiting its delivery!

I should talk about paying high prices for stuff, LOL. I paid 7K a while back for an M98 Mauser in 7x57!! However it is the most accurate 7x57 I have ever owned and gorgeous.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I based the above on my own experience with this round. Obviously others (BOB), have taken it to the limit or as they used to say in STAR TREK, "to BOLDLY go where no man has gone before!".
When I loaded the round for a Mauser sporter I had, I was quite content to move a 250 Partition to just over 2500 fps and a 225 to about 2650.
I like the Whelen very much and currently on the lookout for a Rem 700 Classic so chambered. I see a few around for stupid high prices, so it may be a while looking.

@sestoppelman
Yes I like going boldly where no man has gone. Yes the 35 Whelen was a grand cartridge in its current form BUT it along with other old cartridges can now be loaded to their FULL potential SAFELY in MODERN firearms which makes the good even better. I'll take that advantage any day.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Those seem to be some pretty hot loads..

Im getting 2700 FPS out of a 200gr Nosler Accubond load.. and could probably squeeze another 100 FPS if I tried.. but I dont think I could get anywhere close to 2700 with a 225 or 250 gr load.. Using the powers I most often load with I think I'd be looking at 2500 max for a 250gr projectile..

@mdwest
Those velocities are easily achievable using today's powders.
I chronograph all my loads in all my rifles. Yes I had to put more powder in to get an average of 2,680 fps with the 250 grain Hornaday roundnose but that is only due to its very short bearing surface. The Sierra 225 grain gkbt is also showing 2,900 in the Sierra manual.
Bob

 

[sestoppelman]

If its good for the goose, its good for the gander right? Then using modern loads and powders, all the old rounds can be updated. Such as the useless overbearing and recoiling .338 Win mag!! LOL.

If the .35 Whelen can do it, so can a round with a 15 percent capacity advantage (.338). Difference in recoil between your loads and standard rated .338 loads cant be much, as amount of powder used is quite similar and velocity and bullet weights the same.
As Jack O'Connor used to say, "there being no free lunch", recoil will be about the same.

 

[Goose Cracker]

Interestingly, the only manuals that show the higher velocities I can find are the new Speer and Sierra manuals, and to a lesser extent the updated Nosler data. By "higher velocities" I'm referring to ~2900 fps for 225 bullets and ~2700 fps for 250 grain pills. All the others I own (Hodgdon, Alliant, Swift, Hornady, Barnes) seem to agree on ~2600/2700 fps for the 225s and ~2500 for the 250s. While the Speer and Sierra manuals list several Alliant powders with higher velocities in the 35W (Power Pro 2000, Power Pro Varmint, and AR-Comp), the last Alliant data I have doesn't list loads with any of those powders. Same with CFE223 in Speer and Sierra but not in Hodgdon.

I'll openly admit that I have no experience reloading for the 35 Whelen. My 35W is a modern Nosler M48 Liberty that really likes factory Federal 225 TBBCs, and I have a bunch of 'em. I am a fan of the cartridge and have taken whitetails, hartebeest, nyala, and eland with my Nosler M48.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If its good for the goose, its good for the gander right? Then using modern loads and powders, all the old rounds can be updated. Such as the useless overbearing and recoiling .338 Win mag!! LOL.

If the .35 Whelen can do it, so can a round with a 15 percent capacity advantage (.338). Difference in recoil between your loads and standard rated .338 loads cant be much, as amount of powder used is quite similar and velocity and bullet weights the same.
As Jack O'Connor used to say, "there being no free lunch", recoil will be about the same.

@sestoppelman
The 338 win mag is already running near it full potential. Yes you can long throat it to put more coal on the fire as @K95 mate did and bring it up to close on 340 weatherby. I only use a max of 66 grains of powder so recoil of the Whelen is probably a milli-poofteenth less.
Even the old ought six with its old 150 grain load @2,700fps can be boosted safely to 3,000fps with a healthy dose of H4350.
Hogdon developed leverloution powder to give the old 30/30, 32 special and even the 348 a shot in the arse. Hell even the old 7x57 can be boosted equal and out do the 7mm 08 in some cases.
It has diddly squat to do with hot roding, it just using the same cartridges with newer components to realize their full potential.
If someone wants to limit ther 45/70 to 1300fps the same as the original that's fine but If'n they have a 95 marlin or Ruger no1they have the opportunity to use it to its full potential, are they hot rodders or realists.
Fortune favours the brave, but being dangerous favours no one. All loading should be done to suit each person's rifle. You wouldn't load a 7x57 rolling block to the same level you would in say a Tikka or Winchester model 70.
It's a case of horse for courses.
Bob.

 

[bruce moulds]

excellent post bob.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Interestingly, the only manuals that show the higher velocities I can find are the new Speer and Sierra manuals, and to a lesser extent the updated Nosler data. By "higher velocities" I'm referring to ~2900 fps for 225 bullets and ~2700 fps for 250 grain pills. All the others I own (Hodgdon, Alliant, Swift, Hornady, Barnes) seem to agree on ~2600/2700 fps for the 225s and ~2500 for the 250s. While the Speer and Sierra manuals list several Alliant powders with higher velocities in the 35W (Power Pro 2000, Power Pro Varmint, and AR-Comp), the last Alliant data I have doesn't list loads with any of those powders. Same with CFE223 in Speer and Sierra but not in Hodgdon.

I'll openly admit that I have no experience reloading for the 35 Whelen. My 35W is a modern Nosler M48 Liberty that really likes factory Federal 225 TBBCs, and I have a bunch of 'em. I am a fan of the cartridge and have taken whitetails, hartebeest, nyala, and eland with my Nosler M48.

@Goose Cracker
Alliant used to list 59 grains of Re15 behind a 250 grain in my manual but then suddenly dropped it to 52 grains for 2,200fps for some unknown reason. I used 59 grains with absolutely no issues, go figure.
In my rifle using nosler data for Varget at 61.5 grains I get a chronoed 2,800 fps by substituting Varget for CFE223 which is a tad slower and a different pressure curve that is longer and flatter it allows for an increase in muzzle velocity with the 225s to get to 2,900 fps and give the 250s a kick in the arse. Maybe having a 25 inch barrel instead of a 22 helps as well.
Bob

 

[bruce moulds]

bob,
re15 can peak out very suddenly, going from what appears to be quite safe to an overload with little increase in charge at the top end.
that hot load that appeared safe in testing could well blow a primer as the weather warms up.
alliant might well have discovered this and adopted a sensible approach by reducing their recommendations.
it behaves similarly in the 9.3x64, and i would advise against noslers loads for this cartridge with re15 for the same reason.
bruce.

 

[CoElkHunter]

If its good for the goose, its good for the gander right? Then using modern loads and powders, all the old rounds can be updated. Such as the useless overbearing and recoiling .338 Win mag!! LOL.

If the .35 Whelen can do it, so can a round with a 15 percent capacity advantage (.338). Difference in recoil between your loads and standard rated .338 loads cant be much, as amount of powder used is quite similar and velocity and bullet weights the same.
As Jack O'Connor used to say, "there being no free lunch", recoil will be about the same.

Yeah, well I want a free lunch when shooting my .338WM! Ha! Ha!

 

[bruce moulds]

does that mean you will eat someone else's lunch.?
bruce.

 

[CoElkHunter]

does that mean you will eat someone else's lunch.?
bruce.

Sure, if they don’t want it. In return, I’ll give them some once fired .338 brass, still warm from the range. That oughta be worth at least a steak sandwich?