35 Whelen

[sestoppelman]

@sestoppelman
The 338 win mag is already running near it full potential. Yes you can long throat it to put more coal on the fire as @K95 mate did and bring it up to close on 340 weatherby. I only use a max of 66 grains of powder so recoil of the Whelen is probably a milli-poofteenth less.
Even the old ought six with its old 150 grain load @2,700fps can be boosted safely to 3,000fps with a healthy dose of H4350.
Hogdon developed leverloution powder to give the old 30/30, 32 special and even the 348 a shot in the arse. Hell even the old 7x57 can be boosted equal and out do the 7mm 08 in some cases.
It has diddly squat to do with hot roding, it just using the same cartridges with newer components to realize their full potential.
If someone wants to limit ther 45/70 to 1300fps the same as the original that's fine but If'n they have a 95 marlin or Ruger no1they have the opportunity to use it to its full potential, are they hot rodders or realists.
Fortune favours the brave, but being dangerous favours no one. All loading should be done to suit each person's rifle. You wouldn't load a 7x57 rolling block to the same level you would in say a Tikka or Winchester model 70.
It's a case of horse for courses.
Bob.

Who says the .338 is already at full potential? How so? If talking factory loads maybe, but we're not. The .338 Win holds enough more powder than the Whelen to make up for any potential advantage due to the difference in bore size I should think.
I dont discount or disbelieve your loading date, I simply think as I said, if modern powders can make the Whelen into a low end .375 Hollands, then the same can be said about other rounds, and that when loaded the way you load the Whelen the .338 can surpass it handily.
Same could be said about the 9.3x62. Slightly more capacity, slightly larger bore. It will then surpass the Whelen, in fact I know some members here have already done so for some time.
I never did or even tried being content with its standard loadings.

 

[bruce moulds]

ses,
the argument becomes mute when you introduce the 9.3x64 into the discussion.
bruce.

 

[sestoppelman]

You mean moot? I used the 62, but yeah, the 64 for sure.

 

[Rick Cox]

Look up some of Bryce Towsley's work. He's a huge advocate of the .35 W.

Bigger than @Bob Nelson 35Whelen ??

 

[Rick Cox]

I have shot a couple dozen elk and moose with my .35 Whelens and mostly 250 grain bullets. Never used one on African game, but for animals the size of Kudu or Gemsbok or Zebra I can't see a need or a real use for a heavier bullet. The 250 grain at 2500 fps from my rifles is always effective and with tough bullets I usually get exits even after breaking humerus or scapula. I have had especially good results with the old Speer grand slam, but even lowly Hornady sp interlock work well at the Whelen's velocity. Full penetration to the far side of big critters. Not sure how a heavier 280 gr. A-Frame would work better? I don't like most bullets lighter than 250 gr. in the Whelen. I have had poor results with the Sierra 225, erratic expansion. 200 gr. Rem and Hornady bullets expand too quickly and penetration suffers. Good "deer" sized bullets though. Barnes TSX 225's are a reasonable choice if looking for a little more speed with good penetration. One bull elk I shot with Federal factory loaded TTBC 225 gr. had both humerus bones in the shoulders crushed and the bullet exited. Vitals were mush. That seems like a good load.

The 225 gr Accubonds work well as well.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Who says the .338 is already at full potential? How so? If talking factory loads maybe, but we're not. The .338 Win holds enough more powder than the Whelen to make up for any potential advantage due to the difference in bore size I should think.
I dont discount or disbelieve your loading date, I simply think as I said, if modern powders can make the Whelen into a low end .375 Hollands, then the same can be said about other rounds, and that when loaded the way you load the Whelen the .338 can surpass it handily.
Same could be said about the 9.3x62. Slightly more capacity, slightly larger bore. It will then surpass the Whelen, in fact I know some members here have already done so for some time.
I never did or even tried being content with its standard loadings.

@sestoppelman
The 338 comes from The factory already loaded to around 55,000 psi so yes you could possibly load it a bit higher but possibly not. The Whelen comes from The factory at 48,000 psi in defference to old wildcat rifles still in use.
For every 4% increase in powder you only get a 1% increase in velocity. It is powder behavior and the modified pressure curve that make a difference. If you can achieve a higher muzzle pressure safely you will get higher velocity without higher peak pressures.
If Hornaday can make light tg magnum and superformance loads that increase ed velocity without increasing pressure surely a handloaders using APPROPRIATE powders do the same thing.
Bob

 

[meigsbucks]

Bigger than @Bob Nelson 35Whelen ??

Not even close to Bob

 

[sestoppelman]

@sestoppelman
The 338 comes from The factory already loaded to around 55,000 psi so yes you could possibly load it a bit higher but possibly not. The Whelen comes from The factory at 48,000 psi in defference to old wildcat rifles still in use.
For every 4% increase in powder you only get a 1% increase in velocity. It is powder behavior and the modified pressure curve that make a difference. If you can achieve a higher muzzle pressure safely you will get higher velocity without higher peak pressures.
If Hornaday can make light tg magnum and superformance loads that increase ed velocity without increasing pressure surely a handloaders using APPROPRIATE powders do the same thing.
Bob

Factory loads almost never live up to their specs Bob. Not in any caliber.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Look up some of Bryce Towsley's work. He's a huge advocate of the .35 W.

@meigsbucks
Could you forward the link to me please it would make a good read. I had a look but couldn't find it.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Factory loads almost never live up to their specs Bob. Not in any caliber.

@sestoppelman
True
It doesnt matter whether it's the 338, the Whelen or the 9.3x62 all get the job done and they do it well. All I aim to do is show people what the Whelen is capable of. I chronograph all my loads wether its my hornet or any other rifle. Even my son's 22lr.
When working up loads I also measure CHE and compare it to factory loads. I use the same case during development to see how many reloads I get per case. So far mycases I used for developing loads have lasted 8 reloads and still going. Brass is to dear to stuff in 2to3 loads. I aim for good velocities, Good accuracy and case life. If I can get all 3 great BUT accuracy trumps velocity in my book. No use having speed If'n you can't hit the side of a barn from inside.
Bob

 

[sestoppelman]

Bob, what brand of cases do you have for your Whelen?

 

[CoElkHunter]

@sestoppelman
The 338 comes from The factory already loaded to around 55,000 psi so yes you could possibly load it a bit higher but possibly not. The Whelen comes from The factory at 48,000 psi in defference to old wildcat rifles still in use.
For every 4% increase in powder you only get a 1% increase in velocity. It is powder behavior and the modified pressure curve that make a difference. If you can achieve a higher muzzle pressure safely you will get higher velocity without higher peak pressures.
If Hornaday can make light tg magnum and superformance loads that increase ed velocity without increasing pressure surely a handloaders using APPROPRIATE powders do the same thing.
Bob

Bob,
Off this specific topic, but this is what I do. The .338WM is rated to 64k "maximum" pressure. My .454 Casull is rated to 65k. I'm assuming these and other cartridges "maximums" aren't working (hunting) pressures? I'm assuming these are "blow up" pressures? I'm sure you and other experts here will know.
Thanks!
CEH

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob,
Off this specific topic, but this is what I do. The .338WM is rated to 64k "maximum" pressure. My .454 Casull is rated to 65k. I'm assuming these and other cartridges "maximums" aren't working (hunting) pressures? I'm assuming these are "blow up" pressures? I'm sure you and other experts here will know.
Thanks!
CEH

@sestoppelman
I couldn't really say but it wouldn't be blow up pressure.
The 270, 308 the WSMs and others have an operating pressure of 60 to 65,000 psi and that is what they are loaded to.
Bob.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob, what brand of cases do you have for your Whelen?

Sestoppelman
Remington. 35 Whelen head stamped factory brass. I have found it to be good brass in my hornet, 25 and Whelen.
Bob

 

[sestoppelman]

@sestoppelman
I couldn't really say but it wouldn't be blow up pressure.
The 270, 308 the WSMs and others have an operating pressure of 60 to 65,000 psi and that is what they are loaded to.
Bob.

The question was from CoElkHunter

Sestoppelman
Remington. 35 Whelen head stamped factory brass. I have found it to be good brass in my hornet, 25 and Whelen.
Bob

Thats mostly what I have and most available here as well. Remington is not my preferred brand for any rifle, but it works. I also have some Hornady and one box of Federal factory loads that I sort of hoard, just because they are neat looking, LOL. 225 gr Trophy Bonded in nickel cases.
Wish Winchester had made some brass for the Whelen.

 

[meigsbucks]

@meigsbucks
Could you forward the link to me please it would make a good read. I had a look but couldn't find it.
Bob

10 Best Hunting Cartridges for Whitetail Deer

Choosing a list of top 10 favorite deer hunting cartridges is no easy task, particularly since there are so many suitable cartridges that could make t

stepoutside.org

 

[sestoppelman]

The comments at the bottom pretty much reflect my general opinion of Towsley. And the guy in the picture isnt him.

 

[K95]

Any one reloading any caliber following the data from a good reloading manual these days shouldn’t go far wrong. That doesn’t mean that there data cannot be improved. Manuals have to safeguard there customers and at the same time protect themselves against possible litigation. Every rifle is different, chamber pressures, barrel lengths, case capacity, the diameter of projectiles and hardness of materials, the list goes on and on.
I’m using some loads where my powder weights are 6 grs more then the maximum in commercial manuals. That doesn’t mean I just started there, I worked my way up a grain at a time checking for pressure signs until I found that sweet spot for that particular rifle. I started reloading when I was 15 yrs old and have been lucky enough to have had some excellent guidance along the 47 yrs since. What I’m trying to say is that you can develop a load where you get the most accuracy with the best velocity without being a dangerous Idiot. Working with load development is just my thing and I get pleasure out of it, some people should stick with manual data and there are those who should only use factory ammunition.
Happy reloading.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Any one reloading any caliber following the data from a good reloading manual these days shouldn’t go far wrong. That doesn’t mean that there data cannot be improved. Manuals have to safeguard there customers and at the same time protect themselves against possible litigation. Every rifle is different, chamber pressures, barrel lengths, case capacity, the diameter of projectiles and hardness of materials, the list goes on and on.
I’m using some loads where my powder weights are 6 grs more then the maximum in commercial manuals. That doesn’t mean I just started there, I worked my way up a grain at a time checking for pressure signs until I found that sweet spot for that particular rifle. I started reloading when I was 15 yrs old and have been lucky enough to have had some excellent guidance along the 47 yrs since. What I’m trying to say is that you can develop a load where you get the most accuracy with the best velocity without being a dangerous Idiot. Working with load development is just my thing and I get pleasure out of it, some people should stick with manual data and there are those who should only use factory ammunition.
Happy reloading.

@K95
You are correct in what you say but sometimes people just don't believe what cartridges can do with proper safe and careful reloading. It is a gradual learning curve but mistakes by being and idiot can be hazardous to your health. The main thing is start low and go up slow.
Bob

 

[K95]

Your right there Bob, getting the best out of a cartridge doesn’t mean you hot ridding, and a little common sense goes along way.
Just a question to put out there regarding the Nosler Partition bullet, does anyone know the difference between the standard partition and the partition gold and is the gold the standard partition now?
Ken