30-06...again

[JG26Irish_2]

I have some 30-06 factory loads from Double Tap that chrono 2782fps ave with a 180g Swift Scirocco bullet. They also are consistent with SD's in the single digits. These will maintain 2000+ fps out past 400y and are accurate enough in my Husqvarna Swedish Mauser to shoot 12" steel out to 400y. It drops 1.6mil at that range which does require a hold over or dial for the drop as it is too many inches for a point blank hold even when zero is 200y.

This is a viable Wildebeest load IMO. For what it is worth, if you are hunting Limpopo, it is usually possible to stalk much closer and shots are rarely needed over 200y. I also have some Federal Premium loads with the same 180g Scirocco's that are a few fps slower but seem to be slightly more accurate.

I have had equal good results with TSX and TTSX and per Barnes own data the TTSX is better for shots longer than 200y and the LRX is better still for longer shots. You can get away with a lighter bullet when using the copper monos like the Barnes, so I would not be afraid to use a 150g or 165g option for Wildebeest. It is not necessary to drive them all the way to 2900fps to work for your application. If you research the data, the depth of penetration, expansion and retained weight for the various Barnes bullet weights in 30cal on ballistic gel at 100y will not vary as much as you would think. You might get 2-4" more penetration with the 180g bullet but will also see a smaller wound channel with slightly less expansion due to the slower impact velocity. The animal will be just as dead with all of them. Use the one that she shoots the best to improve her confidence in the field and send it.

 

[45-70guy]

If you’re patient, a broadside shot usually presents itself. Quartering to is also just fine. Quartering away gets dicey quickly as the angle gets greater.

Sometimes my patience can be tested, so I revert to a “big” caliber and a premium heavy bullet. Frontal shots I was surprised how much faster an animal would drop than a shoulder shot.

 

[Wyit76]

In my experience folks have a tendency to get tied up on weight when comparing mono metal bullets to more traditional style bullets and the comparison just isn't fair. Monos punch far above their weight class when run within their proper parameters. I have taken freezers full of game in the western US with assorted Barnes and Hornady monos from 6mm to 30 cal and have yet to ever recover a bullet. Every tracking job I've had shooting them could have been followed by a blind man too!

If it is at all possible for you I would highly suggest looking at the TTSX vs the TSX, in my experience they prove to be every bit as tough and have significantly better aerodynamics which can extend your range drastically. My last cow elk and my largest mule deer, he outweighed that cow by a fair bit, were both taken with a 30-06 and 180gn ttsx bullets. Both were stone dead in their tracks. I would have happily used a 165gn but I didn't have time to build a load for that rifle. Another option worth looking into if you can find them are the Federal Terminal Accent bullets, they are an excellent mix of modern monos and classic lead core. I had excellent luck with them in a 30-06 and my wife uses them exclusively in her 270 for everything up to elk.

 

[ElevenBravo]

I would go with the 150 grain bullets you already sighted the rifle with or go with the 165 grain Accubonds you already possess. The 30-06 is perfectly suited to 165 and 168 grain bullets and they will kill any wildebeest, or elk for that matter, ever born if she does a good job on the shot. African people ALWAYS recommend heavier bullets but neglect the fact that trajectory is also important. The 165 grain bullets in this caliber are plenty heavy and fly flatter and retain more energy than the 150 or 180 grain bullets. I’ve killed numerous elk with the 165 grain bullets and have been in the guiding industry for 36 years. You are all set or switch to the 165 Accubonds if they shoot well in that rifle.

I'm taking her rifle out to the range to test some Federal Terminal Ascents as soon as this meeting is over. I have a hog hunt coming up and have to prep and do reloads for other guns. Having to do load development again right now is not something I'm looking forward to.

 

[ElevenBravo]

In my experience folks have a tendency to get tied up on weight when comparing mono metal bullets to more traditional style bullets and the comparison just isn't fair. Monos punch far above their weight class when run within their proper parameters. I have taken freezers full of game in the western US with assorted Barnes and Hornady monos from 6mm to 30 cal and have yet to ever recover a bullet. Every tracking job I've had shooting them could have been followed by a blind man too!

If it is at all possible for you I would highly suggest looking at the TTSX vs the TSX, in my experience they prove to be every bit as tough and have significantly better aerodynamics which can extend your range drastically. My last cow elk and my largest mule deer, he outweighed that cow by a fair bit, were both taken with a 30-06 and 180gn ttsx bullets. Both were stone dead in their tracks. I would have happily used a 165gn but I didn't have time to build a load for that rifle. Another option worth looking into if you can find them are the Federal Terminal Accent bullets, they are an excellent mix of modern monos and classic lead core. I had excellent luck with them in a 30-06 and my wife uses them exclusively in her 270 for everything up to elk.

I'm going to try some factory Federal TAs as soon as this project manager shuts up.

 

[Gomer]

In my experience folks have a tendency to get tied up on weight when comparing mono metal bullets to more traditional style bullets and the comparison just isn't fair. Monos punch far above their weight class when run within their proper parameters. I have taken freezers full of game in the western US with assorted Barnes and Hornady monos from 6mm to 30 cal and have yet to ever recover a bullet. Every tracking job I've had shooting them could have been followed by a blind man too!

If it is at all possible for you I would highly suggest looking at the TTSX vs the TSX, in my experience they prove to be every bit as tough and have significantly better aerodynamics which can extend your range drastically. My last cow elk and my largest mule deer, he outweighed that cow by a fair bit, were both taken with a 30-06 and 180gn ttsx bullets. Both were stone dead in their tracks. I would have happily used a 165gn but I didn't have time to build a load for that rifle. Another option worth looking into if you can find them are the Federal Terminal Accent bullets, they are an excellent mix of modern monos and classic lead core. I had excellent luck with them in a 30-06 and my wife uses them exclusively in her 270 for everything up to elk.

100%. I use the 150gr TTSX in the 30-06 and 168gr TTSX in the 300 Win Mag. Both shoot flat and perform great. I’m going to develop a 270 WSM load with the 129gr LRX.

 

[ElevenBravo]

Use the one that she shoots the best to improve her confidence in the field and send it.

Oh that's not a problem. She talks a *lot* of smack after I got her hitting targets at 1000 yards with her Creedmoor. She wants to try it with my Shiloh Sharps but the recoil on that is pretty stiff and unfriendly.

 

[JMM]

I get your PH stock reply of 180 grain Swift A Frame as the preferred choice. This bonded, partitioned lead core bullet is the standard which other bullets are judged. I have culled a lot of animals in Africa with this bullet. That being said, the all copper Barnes is a different animal. The 180 Barnes bullet is much longer than an 180 grain A Frame. It takes up more case room and is more difficult to push to high speed. The 150 grain Barnes will kill anything a 180 grain lead bullet can. Barnes need speed to expand. At 2900 or so, it will penetrate and open up.

I use Barnes 110 grain TTSX in my 06 for culling. I have killed hundreds of whitetail and elk over the years. At 3500 fps it works. Does it expand? I think so but no deer has ever caught one and I don't remember an elk catching one.

 

[Lopehunter]

Here's a video from Ultimate Reloader on YouTube. It compares bullet expansion for TSX, TTSX and LRX in ballistic gel at velocities slightly below 1800 FPS. The demonstration shows reasonable penetration and full expansion at that velocity for 7mm cal. bullets. Seems unlikely a 30 cal. bullet would need 2000 fps.

I expect the velocity worry comes from large bore DG cartridges where the sectional density is rather low having expansion problems with Barnes. Those old cartridges were designed in an era of relatively weak cup and core bullets.

 

[ElevenBravo]

In my experience folks have a tendency to get tied up on weight when comparing mono metal bullets to more traditional style bullets and the comparison just isn't fair. Monos punch far above their weight class when run within their proper parameters. I have taken freezers full of game in the western US with assorted Barnes and Hornady monos from 6mm to 30 cal and have yet to ever recover a bullet. Every tracking job I've had shooting them could have been followed by a blind man too!

If it is at all possible for you I would highly suggest looking at the TTSX vs the TSX, in my experience they prove to be every bit as tough and have significantly better aerodynamics which can extend your range drastically. My last cow elk and my largest mule deer, he outweighed that cow by a fair bit, were both taken with a 30-06 and 180gn ttsx bullets. Both were stone dead in their tracks. I would have happily used a 165gn but I didn't have time to build a load for that rifle. Another option worth looking into if you can find them are the Federal Terminal Accent bullets, they are an excellent mix of modern monos and classic lead core. I had excellent luck with them in a 30-06 and my wife uses them exclusively in her 270 for everything up to elk.

Shot a box of 175 TAs. Cold bore/clean bore I was shooting a dime. After about 5 shots when the barrel warmed and got dirty the groups started opening up. Average velocity is 2650 fps.

Realizing that most hunting shots are cold bore, they might work.

 

[Happy Myles]

I have NOT had good experience with Limbsaver slipon recoil pads. They are too soft and squirrelly. I tried using one for trap shooting to lengthen LOP. What a piece of crap! First, it's like shooting while holding the gun one inch from my shoulder. Not only is my shoulder getting whacked, but my index finger gets dinged by the back of trigger guard. The damn things also won't stay put on the gun. After every shot the recoil pad wanders sideways on the butt stock. That's because the sidewalls are way too soft. I tried using an undersized Limbsaver. Even though I had to fight it to get it on the gun the damn thing still wandered around after every shot.

Pachmayer is the best for just right firmness. Be aware their "easy on" design also = easy off. I lost three during four seasons of pheasant hunting. Duct tape is the answer but it looks like shit. And most bourbon-swilling double barrel upland hunters would rather be run over by a bus than seen with a shitty looking gun.

Something I just learned about slipons while sighting my guns in for safari. Had my grandson along and added Pachmayer slipon for him to try shooting my 30-06 after I checked zero. His first shot went 3" right of bull and second one too. So I grabbed the gun and also put a bullet in the same spot. What the ... Did the scope just go to hell? Only difference was adding recoil pad. So I removed it and gun was zeroed again. Apparently, slipon alters the recoil dynamics which affects barrel harmonics. Zero a rifle with or without a slipon recoil pad. Not something that can be added or removed during the course of a hunt.

How old is your grandson?

 

[HUS856]

Both loads work for a 110 lb shooter on a tanky wildebeest.

150gr TSX @ 2900 fps your handload is plenty actual gel tests show it expands to 0.64" at 2400 fps with 12" penetration and huge internal volume. Less recoil than 180s, easy on a small woman, and the muzzle energy is more than enough. Outfitter's 180gr Swifts are just their preference, not a rule.

180gr TSX @ 2400 fps is also fine Barnes lists reliable expansion down to 1600 fps that's 400 yards. Slightly better penetration on thick skinned game, but why push it when the lighter bullet does the job cleaner for her?

No lead azide needed TSX is already monster proof.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

How old is your grandson?

He's thirteen now. Spitting image of his uncle but about a head taller.

 

[Dan458]

My .30-06 loves 180gr Barnes TTSXs, and they’ve been extremely effective for me on everything up to scrub bulls. On small deer they can actually be a little hard and sometimes don’t open significantly, but that’s not the problem you’re dealing with here.

For African plains game, and particularly something as heavily built as a wildebeest, I’d definitely choose the 180gr over the 150gr. At normal .30-06 velocities the 180 TTSX still retains more than enough velocity to expand properly at the sort of distances you’re talking about, while giving you the additional penetration and momentum I’d want on a big, tough animal.

I wouldn’t be chasing 2900 fps just for the sake of hitting a velocity number. If the 180gr load is accurate, manageable for her to shoot well, and is still above the bullet’s expansion threshold at your realistic hunting distances, that would be my choice.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Shot a box of 175 TAs. Cold bore/clean bore I was shooting a dime. After about 5 shots when the barrel warmed and got dirty the groups started opening up. Average velocity is 2650 fps.

Realizing that most hunting shots are cold bore, they might work.

If her rifle shoots the terminal ascents well you have a good option there. Most of the rifles, I have tried them in did not shoot them nearly as well as some other options. For what it is worth, Federal also makes a factory load with the Trophy Bonded Tip bullets. I have not tried them in the 30-06 yet but my 338wm loves the 200g version with that bullet. The design is similar to the TA's. Bonded lead core with polymer ballistic tip and solid coper shank. These open up and expand well, even at longer range where speeds have dropped off and if you have to shoot an animal up close, the bullet is violent and still drives deep. I shot a coyote while on a hunt with my son in Texas last winter with one and it nearly blew it in half. That was a 155y shot and the thump from the impact was impressive.

Another for what it is worth comment is this: Of all the factory ammo I have tried in my various rifles some have speed and some have accuracy but very few can consistently deliver both. Nosler is always slow but accurate. Hornady is usually fast but not so consistent. Still some rifles shoot it well. Swift ammo is always loaded conservative. Winchester (I do not use them at all). But, only two that I have found, Federal and Barnes can consistently deliver upper range velocities and single digit SD's with superior accuracy across a range of rifle calibers from 243, 270, 7mm 308, 30-06, 338, 375, etc. With Barnes you get their fine copper bullets and with Federal Premium, you can obtain a variety of bullets like Fusion, Swift, Trophy Bonded, etc. nobody else that I have tried comes close to those two. I cannot reload and get the same quality control that they provide. True that if you take the time to work up a custom load for a given rifle,, one can usually improve accuracy a hair. But, for hunting, I am usually happy with sub MOA or a little better and while shooting an ace of clubs group at 100y is fun, it is not really necessary for big game hunting at the ranges I would take my shots. I just do not need to shoot that far in most cases. I like to be able to shoot further but it is not necessary.

Some have suggested that the Barnes needs to be going 2900fps to open up effectively. That is not true. I have killed multiple animals with multiple calibers using Barnes TSX and TTSX where the impact velocities were in the 2050fps range plus minus 20fps or so. All of them were killed quick and only one of the bullets were recovered and that was from a frontal shot on a Blue WB and that bullet expanded to 1.9x and penetrated about 3ft into the beast and only stopped when it drove into the big paunch full of grass. A second finisher from much closer expanded to 2.2x. Muzzle velocity from that Factory Barnes 375 load was 2570fps in that rifle. From what I have seen the TSX adjusts its expansion to fit the impact velocity. Up close it expands a lot and penetrates enough which is usually enough to still get a pass-thru. At longer ranges, it expands less but still penetrates enough (24 to 30" is typical depending on weight and caliber and animal) and even at those longer ranges you usually will see a pass-thru unless it is a very large, tough beast. They do not usually kill as suddenly but with a perfect shot they can. Still, I have never had an animal shot with one get away and come to think of it, none ran very far either. That includes some tough customers like Wildebeest, Cape Buffalo and Nilgai. Do not mis read me. I am not a copper mono fan boy but I use them and trust them about as much as any factory ammo I can get. They work well in a wide range of applications. The quality of their factory ammo is what I like the most.

 

[BeeMaa]

I'll put in another good word for the 165 gr, it is my favorite bullet weight in the 30-06. I would look at the Accubond or TTSX. Both have worked great for me.

I use the 165 grain TTSX in my 300WM with devastating results. Plus it’s the bullet that my barrel likes best.

I know it’s not a 30-06, but it still translates with the difference being the 300WM higher velocity at the same distance.

This combo has me covered to the outermost reaches of my comfort zone for shooting at game which is 300-350 yards while maintaining adequate velocity for reliable expansion.

The 30-06 and 150/168 grain TTSX combo will have everything PG taken care of at a distance that a PH will green light. Of course shot placement trumps everything, but these bullets are extremely capable.

 

[MooseHunter]

Of all the bullets discussed here, It would be hard to choose a bad one. All have merit

 

[txtrout75218]

Not sure this will help but will make these comments.

Used a 20" 308 with factory 175 grain Terminal Accent on wildebeest last summer. Range 150 yards. One shot.

Also my daughter used a 7-08 with factory 140 grain TSX for a one shot there and done on a stallion zebra at about 115 yards. She dropped him with a front quartering shot. Almost a full pass through. Full expansion.