28 Gauge Recommendations

[MRBlack]

Good evening gentlemen,

I have recently become quite fond of double of all kinds. I am using a Merkel SxS 500 Nitro and enjoying it. Last fall, I became addicted to upland hunting, especially quail. I have purchased a young German Shorthair Pointer from a local hunter and plan to hunt with him this fall. I feel that a good SxS 28 gauge would make an excellent quail gun as well as a trainer for the 500. I have a Browning over under 12 that I like, but I think a side by side would make an excellent addition, as well as a trainer for the Merkel. For that reason I really would like double triggers, and if possible, extractors. I am a college student and have a somewhat limited budget. With these things in mind, what do you all think I should consider? Thanks, Matt.

 

[meigsbucks]

A couple of years ago I wanted a 28ga SxS. As I don’t do much bird hunting anymore, I picked up a little CZ Bobwhite 28ga. Double triggers, extractors, five choke tubes, light weight and only about $650.

 

[Red Leg]

What @meigsbucks said.

The least expensive new gun that would be reasonably certain to perform as advertised would be the CZ in either the Sharptail or Bobwhite models. You can find those for under a thousand. Watch the triggers, they can be a crap shoot. But such a gun can get you rolling into the wonderful world of SxS shotguns. Though, it is possible you may regret the decision someday.

 

[leslie hetrick]

my classic DB in a browning BSS sporter in 20 ga made in the mid 70,s. it has served for several generation of hunters with out any problems, firing untold amounts of shell over the years.

 

[Saul]

You are about to enter the hallowed halls of fine shooting. As others have said, the CZ Bobwhite will be perfect for you, especially since you want a 28 gauge. The Bobwhite is the only new sxs under $2k that I would even consider worth buying. Most in the budget category are more club than shotgun.

You should always keep your eye on the used gun rack. If you are lucky, you can find a great sxs that belonged to someone's grandfather for an absolute steal. Probably the best and most common sxs you will find used for under $500 is the Savage Fox model B. Even though it is the cheapest sxs in my collection, it has stood up to literally thousands of rounds without fail.

While everyone should have at least one 28 gauge, I hope you are aware that a 28 gauge will be a considerable step down in power from your 12 gauge. You could always split the difference and get a Bobwhite in 20 gauge. Odds are, though, that whichever one you get, you will be adding another sxs to your collection in no time at all, so you might as well get whichever feels best in your hands.

Whatever you decide, NEVER buy a sxs without first holding it. A well-made sxs is an exercise in precision craftsmanship and perfect balance. It has to come to the shoulder and swing just right. Do yourself a favor and stay away from all of those pistol grips and beavertails. Keep the barrels long (especially in a sub-gauge like the 28) and the weight just in front of the hinge pin.

When you do eventually decide to upgrade, I would recommend skipping the $1-2k guns and going straight to a good example from one of the Spanish makers. I am biased toward AyA, but it is hard to go wrong with a Grulla or Arietta, both of which you can find used for a good price. It is in this $4-10k range that you will see a substantial increase in quality. In my experience, the $1-2k offerings are no better than the Bobwhite. You are just paying for laser engraving, a little more wood grain, and name.

This was a very long way of saying that you should get a CZ Bobwhite. It will be perfect for what you want right now, and will make a great upland companion. I am smiling to myself right now because I know that once you begin hunting with a sxs, it is only a matter of time before you will be dropping five figures on a bespoke gun. Please keep us updated on what you decide.

 

[Red Leg]

You are about to enter the hallowed halls of fine shooting. As others have said, the CZ Bobwhite will be perfect for you, especially since you want a 28 gauge. The Bobwhite is the only new sxs under $2k that I would even consider worth buying. Most in the budget category are more club than shotgun.

You should always keep your eye on the used gun rack. If you are lucky, you can find a great sxs that belonged to someone's grandfather for an absolute steal. Probably the best and most common sxs you will find used for under $500 is the Savage Fox model B. Even though it is the cheapest sxs in my collection, it has stood up to literally thousands of rounds without fail.

While everyone should have at least one 28 gauge, I hope you are aware that a 28 gauge will be a considerable step down in power from your 12 gauge. You could always split the difference and get a Bobwhite in 20 gauge. Odds are, though, that whichever one you get, you will be adding another sxs to your collection in no time at all, so you might as well get whichever feels best in your hands.

Whatever you decide, NEVER buy a sxs without first holding it. A well-made sxs is an exercise in precision craftsmanship and perfect balance. It has to come to the shoulder and swing just right. Do yourself a favor and stay away from all of those pistol grips and beavertails. Keep the barrels long (especially in a sub-gauge like the 28) and the weight just in front of the hinge pin.

When you do eventually decide to upgrade, I would recommend skipping the $1-2k guns and going straight to a good example from one of the Spanish makers. I am biased toward AyA, but it is hard to go wrong with a Grulla or Arietta, both of which you can find used for a good price. It is in this $4-10k range that you will see a substantial increase in quality. In my experience, the $1-2k offerings are no better than the Bobwhite. You are just paying for laser engraving, a little more wood grain, and name.

This was a very long way of saying that you should get a CZ Bobwhite. It will be perfect for what you want right now, and will make a great upland companion. I am smiling to myself right now because I know that once you begin hunting with a sxs, it is only a matter of time before you will be dropping five figures on a bespoke gun. Please keep us updated on what you decide.

I have been at the SxS game for four decades. There are indeed some fine guns to be had for under 10K (though a Fox Model B probably would be pretty far down the list - I will admit they do usually work when fired). But I am curious who is going to build you a true bespoke gun for five figures?!? Obviously you can get a new AYA in that price range, but their Imperial is their true bespoke gun. They are a lot cheaper than a H&H Royal, but they are well north of 10K.

Good advice on the longer barrels. The smaller bores, even on a quail gun, benefit by that bit of extra forward weight and momentum. Most of my small bores have 30" barrels. I have a little Birmingham 20 that has 26" tubes and it is a bit like trying to shoot a fly rod.

 

[Saul]

I have been at the SxS game for four decades. There are indeed some fine guns to be had for under 10K (though a Fox Model B probably would be pretty far down the list). Curious who is going to build you a true bespoke gun for five figures?!?

The Fox is obviously not comparable to the $1k and up guns, but you can find a good example for under $300 and it will continue to provide reliable service for generations to come. That makes it exceptionally good value for what you pay and the great choice for anyone starting a sxs collection.

If you wanted a bespoke sxs in the five figure range, AyA would be happy to oblige. It might not be the "true bespoke" that you get with a London best, but it will be of good quality and fit you perfectly for about $200k less.

 

[Tanks]

... But such a gun can get you rolling into the wonderful world of SxS shotguns. Though, it is possible you may regret the decision someday.

I'll attest to that. Good thing I just bought a new safe.

 

[Red Leg]

The Fox is obviously not comparable to the $1k and up guns, but you can find a good example for under $300 and it will continue to provide reliable service for generations to come. That makes it exceptionally good value for what you pay and the great choice for anyone starting a sxs collection.

If you wanted a bespoke sxs in the five figure range, AyA would be happy to oblige. It might not be the "true bespoke" that you get with a London best, but it will be of good quality and fit you perfectly for about $200k less.

Nope.

AYA will adjust a stock, give you the barrel length you want etc., but that is for a standard production gun in that price range. Their bespoke gun is the Imperial and it is built from the ground up to your measurements and tastes (stock, bore, barrel thickness, engraver, wood, etc, etc). They are not built to price. One will be less than an equivalent H&H Royal at 125-150 K or so, but it will be well into five figures.

A bespoke gun - Holland, Hartmann & Wiess, Rigby, Westley Richards, or AYA are very different things than production guns. It is a similar difference in rifles between say a Rigby Highland Stalker which can be had with a few tweaks, and Rigby's bespoke bolt actions.

 

[Saul]

I have been at the SxS game for four decades. There are indeed some fine guns to be had for under 10K (though a Fox Model B probably would be pretty far down the list - I will admit they do usually work when fired). But I am curious who is going to build you a true bespoke gun for five figures?!? Obviously you can get a new AYA in that price range, but their Imperial is their true bespoke gun. They are a lot cheaper than a H&H Royal, but they are well north of 10K.

Good advice on the longer barrels. The smaller bores, even on a quail gun, benefit by that bit of extra forward weight and momentum. Most of my small bores have 30" barrels. I have a little Birmingham 20 that has 26" tubes and it is a bit like trying to shoot a fly rod.

Damn you for editing your post after I responded!

I must admit that I am biased toward the Fox. My Fox belonged to my uncle and I have fond memories of getting to take it out shooting with my cousin on the farm. I have a story about raccoons in the barn but that is for another day. Still, I maintain that you will not find a more reliable or better value sxs for under $500.

I should have been clear when I said five figures. I consider $20-40k to be well worth it for a bespoke sxs. Obviously, others may think differently.

The AyA Imperial is certainly a an exceptional piece of craftsmanship. However, just as much customization is available on a No. 1 if you are willing to pay. That is one of the things I like about the Spanish makers--if you can afford it, they will do it. I once asked them about chambering a double in 303 British and they responded that they will chamber it in whatever cartridge I want for about $2k for an exceptionally rare cartridge.

I go for 28" barrels on my 12 gauges and 30" on my 20 and 28 gauges. My wife has a Benelli Montefeltro 20 gauge with a 26" barrel. It is a great gun for doves and I have used one in Argentina (though I prefer the Beretta 3901 for that kind of shooting). It is just so damn light and with that short barrel I end up swinging it around like a maniac trying to get back on the bird.

 

[Red Leg]

Damn you for editing your post after I responded!

I must admit that I am biased toward the Fox. My Fox belonged to my uncle and I have fond memories of getting to take it out shooting with my cousin on the farm. I have a story about raccoons in the barn but that is for another day. Still, I maintain that you will not find a more reliable or better value sxs for under $500.

I should have been clear when I said five figures. I consider $20-40k to be well worth it for a bespoke sxs. Obviously, others may think differently.

The AyA Imperial is certainly a an exceptional piece of craftsmanship. However, just as much customization is available on a No. 1 if you are willing to pay. That is one of the things I like about the Spanish makers--if you can afford it, they will do it. I once asked them about chambering a double in 303 British and they responded that they will chamber it in whatever cartridge I want for about $2k for an exceptionally rare cartridge.

I go for 28" barrels on my 12 gauges and 30" on my 20 and 28 gauges. My wife has a Benelli Montefeltro 20 gauge with a 26" barrel. It is a great gun for doves and I have used one in Argentina (though I prefer the Beretta 3901 for that kind of shooting). It is just so damn light and with that short barrel I end up swinging it around like a maniac trying to get back on the bird.

Though remember her Montefeltro is equivalent in overall length to a 28” SxS or OU. But they are indeed ridiculously light guns.

My only point on a bespoke gun is that it can’t, by definition, be a production gun regardless of how many custom features the production gun may have. That doesn’t mean such a customized No. 1 isn’t a very special thing. But at resale, it will still be a No. 1.

I have a little Grulla .410 sidelock (216) with 29” barrels that is a quail hunting joy you would really appreciate.

 

[flatwater bill]

Mr B.............you mention that you are currently using a Merkel DR and that you like it. Merkels typically have long LOP........if that fits your frame, perhaps a Merkel shotgun would also................The 41E model is made in 28 ga......and while not the equivalent of a Boss or a Purdey.......it is a fine gun and much cheaper.............Best of luck.......looking is much of the fun............FWB

 

[MRBlack]

Thank you all for the wise words. The Merkel was long in the stock and I had JJ Perodeau doing some work to the sights and had him adjust the length of pull. I have a 20 gauge Browning A5 round knob that I used quite a bit on quail last year, and it did a wonderful job. There is just the draw of a good SxS and I though the 28 gauge would make a good addition since I already had a several 12s and a few 20s. I had considered the CZ some time ago, but never handled one. As far as older used guns, what is everyone’s preference? I am willing to save a year or two if needed to get what I’m after.

 

[WAB]

Great advice on barrel length. Nothing worse than a gun you can carry all day but can’t shoot wax hen you get where you’re going! If you want some of the best technical writing on SxS shotguns, dig up work be Gough Thomas Garwood.

RedLeg, your estimates on H&H Royals is a little out of date. I took the photo above at the H&H range in London last year. The price tag on the contents of that display was north of $1MM USD!

 

[Tanks]

... As far as older used guns, what is everyone’s preference? I am willing to save a year or two if needed to get what I’m after.

I bought a used Aya No. 2 a few months ago. I liked it and put about a thousand or so shells through it. I recently traded it in (plus a bit of $$$) for a pair of numbered Grullas. Both copy the H&H style and have English straight stock. The Grullas seem to be a bit thinner on the forend stock

I am picking up the Grullas today and will pattern and shoot them some next Friday.

In pricing, at least here, the Grullas seem to run about 30% more than Ayas in comparable models. For comparison here are pics.

AyA No. 2 12GA Shotgun

• Tanks
• May 12, 2020

AyA NO. 2 12GA Side-Lock Ejector, improved modified choke on both barrels. 2 3/4", double...

Pair of Grulla 210s Shotguns

• Tanks
• Jul 9, 2020
• 2

I was at Pacific Sporting Arms for adjustment of the stock of an O/u I had recently purchased...

 

[Red Leg]

View attachment 358182

Great advice on barrel length. Nothing worse than a gun you can carry all day but can’t shoot wax hen you get where you’re going! If you want some of the best technical writing on SxS shotguns, dig up work be Gough Thomas Garwood.

RedLeg, your estimates on H&H Royals is a little out of date. I took the photo above at the H&H range in London last year. The price tag on the contents of that display was north of $1MM USD!

You are right. As I think about it, I probably have been saying 125 K or so since the nineties. And those four are on the shelf - not bespoke. One of those things where if you have to ask .............

 

[leslie hetrick]

i load for my only 28 ga, a rem 870. on a mec 9000g and load 3/4 to 1 oz loads in rem STS hulls. i have killed rabbits at a honest 40 yards with 1 oz # 6 shot out of a modified choke.

 

[Red Leg]

Thank you all for the wise words. The Merkel was long in the stock and I had JJ Perodeau doing some work to the sights and had him adjust the length of pull. I have a 20 gauge Browning A5 round knob that I used quite a bit on quail last year, and it did a wonderful job. There is just the draw of a good SxS and I though the 28 gauge would make a good addition since I already had a several 12s and a few 20s. I had considered the CZ some time ago, but never handled one. As far as older used guns, what is everyone’s preference? I am willing to save a year or two if needed to get what I’m after.

So the best buy in quality older guns is a Birmingham made (really doesn't matter the house) boxlock non-ejector in 12 bore. HOWEVER, you absolutely need to know what you are doing when you buy a used SxS. Three out of the four I pick up in this country have issues (out of proof, loose ribs, off face, and most common - been mucked around with by some clueless gun butcher who claimed to be a gunsmith). I have a very expensive education in how to spot those problems. My usual technique was to find a "deal" for $1500, but another $1200 into it, and have an $1800 gun when I was done. So beware. The best bet on a good quality used gun would be something like an AYA or Grulla from a reputable dealer. You pay a bit of a premium for that reputable bit, but it is worth it until you really know your way around these wonderful old things.

There are several good books where you can start that education. The best are by Diggory Hadoke "Vintage Guns for the Modern Shot" and "Vintage Guns: Collecting, Restoring, and Shooting Classic Firearms" The latter is essentially an expansion on the first. They can be found several places on line.

Also, go to SCI or DSC and spend some time with JJ and the other dealers. The Southern SxS is another great venue. In a day you can handle more truly well made and cared for SxS's than you will see haunting gun shops for a decade.

As you get into this bobwhite sport, you will quickly find there are a lot of places, private and commercial, where a semi-auto such as your A5 or a pump simply won't be welcome. Kind of like brown shoes with a Tux or chewing tobacco in church. They will have the same deeply rooted prejudice against anything bigger than a twenty.

 

[WAB]

Red Leg is absolutely correct on the protocol. I shoot a .28 ga O/U which pushes the boundaries for the purists. I will say that I have been very welcome on even the most posh plantations with my model 42 skeet gun. There’s something about a model 42 that seems sit well with folks.

 

[Red Leg]

Red Leg is absolutely correct on the protocol. I shoot a .28 ga O/U which pushes the boundaries for the purists. I will say that I have been very welcome on even the most posh plantations with my model 42 skeet gun. There’s something about a model 42 that seems sit well with folks.

That is true.