20 vs 28 gauge

[Toddconley]

I shoot a Benelli Ethos Cordoba 28 gauge. Carbon rib, 28 inch ported barrel, synthetic stock at everything. I have the 12 and the 20 to match it but never pick them up. I shoot 3in boss 3/5 blend at ducks and 7/8 stuff at everything else. I shoot a mod or improve mod. It will be my last shotgun that leaves here. It’s super light. Fits me well and kills just fine. It’s my favorite shotgun I’ve ever owned. You will appreciate the ported barrel. Great gun. You will not be disappointed.

 

[Toddconley]

They believe by hunting each blind only once or twice a week and with 28’s & 410’s, they hold more ducks. They’re not as loud, so they don’t chase birds out as much. When the birds are down from Alberta/Saskatchewan, it’s about as good as duck hunting can be. Many days that 3 of us have brought in 21 green heads shot with 28’s.

The club actually dropped 20’s a few years ago and now is only 28s & 410s. They work a lot better than you might expect. 410’s are a faint drop off but 28’s are fine out past 30 yards and 30 is as far as we shoot.View attachment 70070628 gauge hunt.

Lots of folks are starting to share this idea. I hunt with an outfitter than only allows 20s and down. It’s just fine with me. I love my 28.

 

[Tbitty]

I find the notion of not being able to use a 12 or a semi-auto to be utterly preposterous. I don't care who or where you are or what you're hunting, that's just ridiculous.

Adding a note to my previous post:

I have no issues with gun club or outfitter rules clearly stating something like "20 gauge and smaller only," just like most clay ranges dictate "no larger than 7-1/2 shot". Nor do I mind if an individual invites me on a hunt/shoot and says to bring a specific gun (as long as I have it, or I can decline the invite). It is the idea of some uppity A-hole looking down his nose at the guy who shows up with a gun the snootie pricks feel is not "gentlemanly" enough for the sport.

I'd venture it is like going to many of the "elite" country clubs of big cities... my boots and jeans aren't good enough for them, and I don't want to be a part of their snobish society.

*rant over* sorry for hi-jacking the thread

 

[rookhawk]

Anyone swinging an auto loader is never welcome to hunt with my dog. They are sort of the bicyclist equivalent of the gun world. Obnoxious at the clays course tossing their chaffe everywhere, unsafe and pointing their gun where it ought not be on a hunt because they can’t break the action.

As to a Perazzi on a hunt, they aren’t built for that so I doubt those that carry them hit much. Both way too heavy and regulated for rising birds, plus stocked for high gun shooting. It’s just not the tool for that job whatsoever.

 

[Red Leg]

I find the notion of not being able to use a 12 or a semi-auto to be utterly preposterous. I don't care who or where you are or what you're hunting, that's just ridiculous. Ive hunted plenty of quail amd dove (wild) in Texas and Kansas, almost exclusively with my autoloaders, though varying from 28 to 12, with never a foul look. Plus plenty of chuckar and pheasant (both wild and pen) too.

Would you get a foul look for using a big bore double with solids on the tiny ten? Doubtful. But you should if you look down on a 12 or semi-auto for quail. ... hypocrisy knows no bounds.

The only "overkill" of a 12 gauge on quail is if using the magnum loads, which is just stupidity, not a matter of gun choice.



As for not trusting someone with a semi auto over dogs, that might be even more asinine. How would the gun action make any difference? Ive hunted them over my dogs my whole life- guess I’m not going to be joining your club. Us peasants with grandpa's old A5 hand-me-down can't be trusted like those with their brand new $15,000 Perazzi (most of whom can't shoot for shit anyway).

Feel free to call me asinine if that makes you feel better. I will not hunt quail with one of my semi-autos and will not do so with someone else carrying one. I am hardly alone and it has nothing to do with snootiness. Most wild bird hunts in which I participate, much less in a released plantation environment, we follow the dogs with open guns and close them as we approach the point. I have no desire to be worried about someone fooling around with a semi under those conditions - grandpa's A5 or not.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I find the notion of not being able to use a 12 or a semi-auto to be utterly preposterous. I don't care who or where you are or what you're hunting, that's just ridiculous. Ive hunted plenty of quail amd dove (wild) in Texas and Kansas, almost exclusively with my autoloaders, though varying from 28 to 12, with never a foul look. Plus plenty of chuckar and pheasant (both wild and pen) too.

Would you get a foul look for using a big bore double with solids on the tiny ten? Doubtful. But you should if you look down on a 12 or semi-auto for quail. ... hypocrisy knows no bounds.

The only "overkill" of a 12 gauge on quail is if using the magnum loads, which is just stupidity, not a matter of gun choice.



As for not trusting someone with a semi auto over dogs, that might be even more asinine. How would the gun action make any difference? Ive hunted them over my dogs my whole life- guess I’m not going to be joining your club. Us peasants with grandpa's old A5 hand-me-down can't be trusted like those with their brand new $15,000 Perazzi (most of whom can't shoot for shit anyway).

I agree. My first shotgun at 15yoa was a 12ga Remington 1100. Still have it. I hunted for many years for dove, quail and ducks with it and later a 12ga Remington 11-87 (8.2lbs) for those species and especially WILD pheasant in Kansas and Nebraska with #5 or #4 shot after moving to Colorado. I now hunt WILD pheasants with my 12ga Remington V3 (7.2lbs) and released pheasants with either it with #6 shot or my 20ga Remington 1100 LT. I also use my 20ga exclusively for doves. I only hunt with my semi autos as almost everyone else does here in the West and quite often over my father in laws THREE German Shorthair Pointers. I've only known a handful people hunting with me or our group over the last 35 years using an O/U and nobody with a SxS. A few more using pumps. I've only known two hunting with a 20ga and one with a 28ga and those were 3". Maybe it's a US traditional/ historical/ geographical thing? WILD pheasants can be incredibly hard to kill especially in November/December with full, thick plumage and thus the 12ga. Nothing wrong with using any of the shotgun platforms mentioned but I choose my semi autos for recoil reduction for heavy loads and/or LOTS of dove or trap/skeet loads. Although, I've contemplated buying an O/U and still might.
Update: I forgot the one farmer guy who used a double barrel 10ga. as his pheasant shotgun. Great guy but not the best shot. Although, I wouldn't either with a 10ga. anything.

 

[WAB]

So I typically use a .410 on released quail and a 20 or 28 on wild birds. I do it because it is required or expected the places I hunt, But this gauge debate is actually pretty stupid, or at least ignorant, on our part. A perfectly balanced 12 bore English game gun will shoot a one ounce load in a perfect pattern with short shot string. I am afraid I am still not nuanced enough after 55 years of using shotguns to understand the ethical difference between one ounce of shot from a 12 or 20.

Exactly! Those who dictate sub gauges do not understand shotguns. I shoot a 3/4 oz load from my 12 ga. I love my .28, but to claim that a 3/4 oz load from a 2 1/2” 12 ga somehow represents an unfair advantage over the same load in a 28 is pure ignorance.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I think that there is one, possibly two, advantages to using a break open gun.

The first is the courtesy of displaying the gun. there is no positive way that the state of battery of a semi auto or pump is made evident. With a break open gun it is immediately evident because the breech is demonstrably empty. The gun is open and it can be seen to be empty. I count that as an advantage when handling a gun in company.

Second advantage is weight and length. A break open gun will be shorter and MAY be lighter. That said, I was handling a 20 gauge Franchi AL48 this morning and I think it weighed about 5-1/2 lbs. Nice weapon for bird shooting.

I have owned and shot a lot of shotguns. I enjoy owning and shooting niicer guns but I know that this does not give me much, if any, advantage in the field. My DOGS may provide an advantage but carrying a lightweight English 20 gauge double is simply an admission that I am aging and don't want to carry something heavier. I admit that I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to bird dogs. Not so with guns... many people that I have hunted with can afford, and do own, finer guns than me... and trucks, and so on. We hunt together, run bird dogs, have fun. It's not an F'ing contest.

 

[Tbitty]

Feel free to call me asinine if that makes you feel better. I will not hunt quail with one of my semi-autos and will not do so with someone else carrying one. I am hardly alone. Most wild bird hunts in which I participate, much less in a released plantation environment, we follow the dogs with open guns and close them as we approach the point. I have no desire to be worried about someone fooling around with a semi under those conditions - grandpa's A5 or not.

Who / how is someone "fooling around" with a semi auto? Sounds like a fool who shouldn't have a gun in his hands.

Honestly, you are just as likely (I would actually argue more likely, but let's just say equally) to accidentally shoot a dog or another hunter by closing the action on a break open than either a loaded semiauto being handled properly or an autoloader that has shells in magazine only and you cycle the bolt when approaching. If it is a freak accident or careless handling, the guns action is irrelevant.

We can agree to disagree on how an OU or SS is more/less safe than any other action. I would instead suggest that Idiots are idiots, and lack of gun safety is a much larger cause of concern for accidents; on that we can no doubt agree. I have absolutely left hunts and ranges where I see careless gun handling taking place, but I do not blame the gun.

Millions of hunters can and do safely use semi-autos, just the same as millions safely use OU or SS or pump or xxxx.

 

[WAB]

It's a "fad" because for a hundred years, the 28 ga wasn't even thought about. Now, there is so much talk about the "magic" of the gauge. No doubt a seed planted by gun manufactueres to sell more guns. If you have a 12 or 20, no need to run out and get a 28. It will not do anything better.
Gun manufacturers roll out and re-introduce new gauges/calibers to increase sales. Same applies to rifles. If you own a .270 or 30.06 and hunt North American Game, no need to run out and buy a 6.5. It will not do any/much better.

I’m sorry but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

 

[WAB]

Actually the 28ga is mandatory in skeet competition. This is why shooters have 4 barrel sets in 12, 20, 28 and .410 bore. Competition starts with the 12, and proceeds to the 20, then 28, and last is the .410 bore.

Sub-gauge inserts are also made for this exact reason.

Watch Olympic Skeet and you'll see this.

I like the 28 as much as anyone, but unless the game has changed drastically, Olympic skeet is shot only with a 12guage.

 

[WAB]

I think that there is one, possibly two, advantages to using a break open gun.

The first is the courtesy of displaying the gun. there is no positive way that the state of battery of a semi auto or pump is made evident. With a break open gun it is immediately evident because the breech is demonstrably empty. The gun is open and it can be seen to be empty. I count that as an advantage when handling a gun in company.

Second advantage is weight and length. A break open gun will be shorter and MAY be lighter. That said, I was handling a 20 gauge Franchi AL48 this morning and I think it weighed about 5-1/2 lbs. Nice weapon for bird shooting.

I have owned and shot a lot of shotguns. I enjoy owning and shooting niicer guns but I know that this does not give me much, if any, advantage in the field. My DOGS may provide an advantage but carrying a lightweight English 20 gauge double is simply an admission that I am aging and don't want to carry something heavier. I admit that I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to bird dogs. Not so with guns... many people that I have hunted with can afford, and do own, finer guns than me... and trucks, and so on. We hunt together, run bird dogs, have fun. It's not an F'ing contest.

I think we would enjoy following dogs together.

 

[WAB]

Nope. Show up with a twenty and most will let you shoot/hunt but they would definitely still look down their aquiline noses at such an unnecessary canon. The 28 in either OU or SxS configuration is appropriate. An truly excellent shot with a .410 is equally welcome.

I typically use a .410 on plantations birds. Wild birds see the 28 sliding out of the case, or on my farm, the 2 1/2” 12.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I think we would enjoy following dogs together.

I think we probably would.

 

[DLSJR]

Well, I guess it’s a good thing that when I’m bird hunting, be it waterfowl or upland, that I’m usually the host. From the comments of some of you, I wouldn’t be worthy of your company. But that’s OK because I really like the people I share duck blinds and goose pits with already and no matter who is shooting with me we are hunting over my 11 year old yellow lab. Actually, hunting with my dog is what matters most and he doesn’t care what kind of shotgun I’m using on any given day.

 

[Nevada Mike]

For the vast majority of hunters in first world countries, as well as other parts of the world, Hunting is about enjoying the natural world and we should seek to optimize that enjoyment. I vote in favor of anything (legal) that adds to the enjoyment of the hunt and does not sacrifice the goal of making a quick, clean kill. If using a 'special' gun does that for you... go for it!

 

[WAB]

Well, I guess it’s a good thing that when I’m bird hunting, be it waterfowl or upland, that I’m usually the host. From the comments of some of you, I wouldn’t be worthy of your company. But that’s OK because I really like the people I share duck blinds and goose pits with already and no matter who is shooting with me we are hunting over my 11 year old yellow lab. Actually, hunting with my dog is what matters most and he doesn’t care what kind of shotgun I’m using on any given day.

View attachment 701556

I think most of us are arguing against the silly rules that plantations put in place to mandate the use of sub bore guns. To think that someone’s 20 ga O/U is acceptable and yet my classic British game gun in 2 1/2” 12 ga is not is actually kind of funny.

 

[skydiver386]

Mandating smaller gauges and action types is no different than enforcing a dress code at a dinner club. It's exclusive, which by definition means some people are purposely excluded.

Is shooting a smaller bore any guarantee that I'll be a safe hunter? No

Is dressing in a tweed hunting jacket and wearing a tie any guarantee that I'll be a gentleman? No

Is paying over $1,000 per day any guarantee that I won't get drunk and act like a fool? No.

But we all know that certain rules, prices and dress codes are there for a reason, and that is to weed out individuals that might ruin things for everyone else.

If you don't want to follow their rules, don't want to dress and act the part, then don't go.

Me? I'd love to hunt in that fashion with that type of shotgun at those birds at that type of Lodge, and someday I will.

Quail Hunting Georgia

First-class quail hunting in Georgia. Pine Hill Plantation is the only Orvis Endorsed wing-shooting lodge providing quail hunting trips & luxury lodging.

www.pinehillplantation.com

 

[mdwest]

Mandating smaller gauges and action types is no different than enforcing a dress code at a dinner club. It's exclusive, which by definition means some people are purposely excluded.

Is shooting a smaller bore any guarantee that I'll be a safe hunter? No

Is dressing in a tweed hunting jacket and wearing a tie any guarantee that I'll be a gentleman? No

Is paying over $1,000 per day any guarantee that I won't get drunk and act like a fool? No.

But we all know that certain rules, prices and dress codes are there for a reason, and that is to weed out individuals that might ruin things for everyone else.

If you don't want to follow their rules, don't want to dress and act the part, then don't go.

Me? I'd love to hunt in that fashion with that type of shotgun at those birds at that type of Lodge, and someday I will.

Quail Hunting Georgia

First-class quail hunting in Georgia. Pine Hill Plantation is the only Orvis Endorsed wing-shooting lodge providing quail hunting trips & luxury lodging.

www.pinehillplantation.com

Completely agree..

I’ll also add… it’s also often as much about “who” you know and associate with as anything else…

Hunting can be like many other things… tennis, golf (country club sports)…

You may well be able to kill more wild quail on papaws 100 acre farm than on an estate hunt.. but you won’t be killing those quail at papaws place with a state senator, a CEO of an O&G firm, and a district court judge..

The exclusivity and price associated with some of the estate type hunts lends itself to networking opportunities with like minded people (obviously all hunters) that can prove valuable to people in certain professional lines of work, and/or prove to be personally valuable..

It’s not unlike joining a local country club… I can assure you that the water in the country club pool is no more wet than the water at the local community pool…

But the person you might meet at the bar next to the pool and share a social hour with is likely not the same guy you’ll get to know sitting poolside at the community pool…

In person, real life, social networks can be extremely valuable… we all have them.. we meet people at church, at kids ball games, out on the golf course (public or private), etc etc..

I see nothing wrong with purposely putting yourself in an “exclusive” setting on occasion.. that just expands the social network further and opens the Rolodex to a different group of people that you know you have at least one thing in common with, that you probably wouldn’t have gotten to know otherwise…

On the convex, I also see nothing wrong with “country club” people spending a little time at the community pool… again, there’s probably someone there that you didn’t know prior that you’d find value in getting to know..

 

[WAB]

Completely agree..

I’ll also add… it’s also often as much about “who” you know and associate with as anything else…

Hunting can be like many other things… tennis, golf (country club sports)…

You may well be able to kill more wild quail on papaws 100 acre farm than on an estate hunt.. but you won’t be killing those quail at papaws place with a state senator, a CEO of an O&G firm, and a district court judge..

The exclusivity and price associated with some of the estate type hunts lends itself to networking opportunities with like minded people (obviously all hunters) that can prove valuable to people in certain professional lines of work, and/or prove to be personally valuable..

It’s not unlike joining a local country club… I can assure you that the water in the country club pool is no more wet than the water at the local community pool…

But the person you might meet at the bar next to the pool and share a social hour with is likely not the same guy you’ll get to know sitting poolside at the community pool…

In person, real life, social networks can be extremely valuable… we all have them.. we meet people at church, at kids ball games, out on the golf course (public or private), etc etc..

I see nothing wrong with purposely putting yourself in an “exclusive” setting on occasion.. that just expands the social network further and opens the Rolodex to a different group of people that you know you have at least one thing in common with, that you probably wouldn’t have gotten to know otherwise…

On the convex, I also see nothing wrong with “country club” people spending a little time at the community pool… again, there’s probably someone there that you didn’t know prior that you’d find value in getting to know..

Agreed. I was fortunate to be invited to hunt a wild bird plantation in South Georgia last year. It was a wonderful experience. A note of interest, these folks knew fine shotguns and were perfectly happy to have a proper British game gun with 2 1/2” shells on their property. It wasn’t lost on them that this gun was actually throwing the same shot charge as a 28.