1917 Winchester .375 Mag - long story

[MrBob]

I am a 68 year old retired Journeyman Machinist / QA Manager. My parents permitted me to buy my first shotgun when I turned 16 and could drive myself to go pheasant hunting in Ohio. I have hunted off and on most of my life. I have acquired several that I always thought were kind of special. In discussions with family members no one really needs or wants them so I have been doing some research to try and put a value on them and find a collector who might be interested.

I think for this thread we will stick with only one rifle at a time may be the best way. First up;

US Model of 1917 Winchester (google says they made less than 466,000 of these) this one was made in 1918 and has number 323 777 as a model/serial on rifle and bolt. Fitted with SS barrel 1.25 OD to .80 OD, barrel length 27.375 total rifle length 48.50 in. weight 10.8 lbs. it is sized for .375 WIN Mag.

I have never fired this rifle and it has no scope. I found a scope rail they say fastens to the rear sights with no drilling or tapping for right around 100$. I think, I have seen the ammo might be obtainable and is certainly makeable. This seems to be a popular caliber for African big game. I had it at the gunsmiths shop on 2-23-24 to ‘check for function and safety’ and ‘check chamber, cast and measure’. I have a drawing of the bullet he made with lengths shown and there are no safety issues listed and I was told it is safe to fire. I have no bullets.

I have spent more than a little time on line researching and looking into this rifle. I believe, I have had this rifle in my safe for about the past 35 years not knowing much about it. It originally came from Norther California in the late 1960’s. When the ex-navy vet owner passed I was able to get it but no one knew if he had made it, or had it made or got it already converted.

I have seen everything I can find to look at on the net and none quite like this and the same with values all over the place and hard to determine as an armature. I found;

US Model 1917 Winchester unmodified approx. 900$

US Model 1917 Eddystone unmodified approx. 1500$

Any and all guidance will be greatly appreciated.

 

[cwpayton]

I would try to find out if it was properly heat treated barrel as those were war years and things got rushed a bit to provide arms to England. ahh northern CA. I lived there from 1986- 94. my work buddy grew up there and knew an old wwii, vet that had an MG42 under his bed, war trophy, we were going to go out and shoot it sometime but he ended up passing away before we did.

 

[Hunter4752001]

it is sized for .375 WIN Mag.

??????????

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

First one I’ve ever heard of some took the time to re barrel but not mill the wings of the receiver. Also and I’m sure some of the gentleman here will correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t the action of had to of been lengthened? A p14/p17 should have only been a standard length action in .303 British or .30-06.

 

[Macduff]

I would try to find out if it was properly heat treated barrel as those were war years and things got rushed a bit to provide arms to England. ahh northern CA. I lived there from 1986- 94. my work buddy grew up there and knew an old wwii, vet that had an MG42 under his bed, war trophy, we were going to go out and shoot it sometime but he ended up passing away before we did.

Ever wonder how many war trophies like that are stashed around? I spend more time pondering that than I should.

Have any idea what happened to it after he passed? I'm hoping it wasn't just turned in to be torched.

 

[MrBob]

Thanks for the comments and questions,

The barrel;
the original barrel was removed and a Stainless Steel barrel was installed. it may be some type off 400 series SS as it is magnetic. However if memory serves me SS can not be heat treated, some of the 400 series could be case hardened or 'carburized' to a depth of .020 or maybe .030 in. depth. the deeper it went the longer it had to soak and the cost could be quite high if you actually wanted it hard past just about .005 in depth. most of what i think i remember seeing was .005 or less.

i did not do the research to see what types of steel was available approximately when this would have been made and what may have been used. the above info is memory from my days of manufacturing stuff in machine shops. these details are part of the type of things as just a machinist i don't know, but if there is a gun smith seeing this they could no doubt tell us.

The Caliber;
the rifle was at the gun smith shop last week for safety check and case casting. i have attached a picture of the drawing of the cast that was made by the gun smith. he said it is a .375 Winchester mag, hand written top left on drawing.

 

[TTundra]

A Winchester 1917 in original form would be worth quite a bit more than a Sporterized version. With the 'ears' not being turned down, there may be more value in the original action if the barrel threads remain original should one want to restore it.

As it sits, similar have sold for $400-$600 as a 'sporter'.

 

[MrBob]

First one I’ve ever heard of some took the time to re barrel but not mill the wings of the receiver. Also and I’m sure some of the gentleman here will correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t the action of had to of been lengthened? A p14/p17 should have only been a standard length action in .303 British or .30-06.

mill the wings of the receiver - i noticed that most of the pictures i was seeing of rifles that claimed to be 1917 just didn't look the same, then i noticed that the 'wings' had been removed. personally, has a collector i thought that's what gave the rifle it's distinctive look and i love them and i found a rail that seems to mount to them for any attachments you may want with drill / tap required.

i also read (on the internet) something about the length of the action, and i believe i read that was one of the plus reasons to use the Winchester 1917 receiver for the .375 because it was the only one that did not require machine work to accept that cartridge.

 

[MrBob]

Ever wonder how many war trophies like that are stashed around? I spend more time pondering that than I should.

Have any idea what happened to it after he passed? I'm hoping it wasn't just turned in to be torched.

hoping to save this one from the torch .....

 

[MrBob]

with scope mount ... from BadAce Tactical

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

A Winchester 1917 in original form would be worth quite a bit more than a Sporterized version. With the 'ears' not being turned down, there may be more value in the original action if the barrel threads remain original should one want to restore it.

As it sits, similar have sold for $400-$600 as a 'sporter'.

Similar to here a sporter p14/17 here would expect to bring from 3-5 hundred. Depending on the job done. I’m unsure about one that’s been rechambered and rebarreled. To my way of thinking with the original military sights and ears and rechambered it’s a project half finished and I would have a hard job selling it at the gun shows I attend. That said I’m in a captive market here. Hopefully the owner has better luck.

 

[Tex .416]

Thanks for the comments and questions,

The barrel;
the original barrel was removed and a Stainless Steel barrel was installed. it may be some type off 400 series SS as it is magnetic. However if memory serves me SS can not be heat treated, some of the 400 series could be case hardened or 'carburized' to a depth of .020 or maybe .030 in. depth. the deeper it went the longer it had to soak and the cost could be quite high if you actually wanted it hard past just about .005 in depth. most of what i think i remember seeing was .005 or less.

i did not do the research to see what types of steel was available approximately when this would have been made and what may have been used. the above info is memory from my days of manufacturing stuff in machine shops. these details are part of the type of things as just a machinist i don't know, but if there is a gun smith seeing this they could no doubt tell us.

The Caliber;
the rifle was at the gun smith shop last week for safety check and case casting. i have attached a picture of the drawing of the cast that was made by the gun smith. he said it is a .375 Winchester mag, hand written top left on drawing.View attachment 590800

That drawing shows a 3.600” long belted mag with a small shoulder, which looks more like a .375 H&H.

There is a cartridge called .375 Winchester, but it is a rimmed straight wall case.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Remembering The .375 Winchester Cartridge

Although over the years a lot of dirt has been shoveled on the cartridge for various reasons, the author is still singing its praises.

www.americanrifleman.org

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

That drawing shows a 3.600” long belted mag with a small shoulder, which looks more like a .375 H&H.

There is a cartridge called .375 Winchester, but it is a rimmed straight wall case.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Remembering The .375 Winchester Cartridge

Although over the years a lot of dirt has been shoveled on the cartridge for various reasons, the author is still singing its praises.

www.americanrifleman.org

There are also several 375 win mag wildcats along the lines of the Chetfield-Taylor.

 

[grand veneur]

The cartridge shown under #6 is the 375 H&H Magnum.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Nice rifle.

 

[MrBob]

great info on caliber ... i will make some calls first of the week and see if i can get my hands on some ammo .... we will find out ... thanks

 

[Hunter4752001]

As pointed out above, the dimensions in the drawing are those for the .375 H&H (I don't think there's any such thing as a ".375 WIN Mag"). Quite a few M17s were re-barrelled to that cartridge. There are a great action and one of the strongest made. Has the barrelled been stamped with the calibre and if so does it state ".375 H&H"? If you intend to take the rifle to Africa if so its best that the calibre of the ammo headstamp matches the rifle markings.

 

[93marlin]

Around here, maybe $400-$500. It's the beginnings of a project. Ears, stock, any feed & function issues would most likely be addressed prior using it for hunting.

 

[cwpayton]

Ever wonder how many war trophies like that are stashed around? I spend more time pondering that than I should.

Have any idea what happened to it after he passed? I'm hoping it wasn't just turned in to be torched.

yea I wished i knew I moved outta that state and lost contact with my friend. I had just bought an a Belgian made semi auto rifle in 8mm and had about 1500 rounds to burn.the old man said shooting it still gave him a woodie.