Why avoid Hornady DG bullets and ammunition?

Red Leg said:

You really were lucky someone wasn't hurt.

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No joke! This is why this conversation hit pretty close to home for me. It is a miracle that someone wasn't hurt. Only thing I can say that probably prevented that, and I'm certainly not meaning this to come across as chest thumping, is with the exception of the one time during that where my rifle jammed (smooth loading my ass) I was putting rounds into him as fast as possible. They did a lot of soft tissue damage and did break both shoulders though never penetrated through the shoulders with the exception of the two rounds that weren't recovered. When he did try to come I had put rounds into and broke both shoulders already which made it very difficult for him to get up. He was mainly able to just plow dirt and he couldn't support the weight of his front end. Again the good lord was watching over me because it happened to be at the same time he tried to charge that my rifle jammed. It took all of about a second for me to clear it but with an animal that can cover a football field in less than 4 seconds that would have been more than enough time. The round before that was the first solid I shot and the round after the jam was the second solid I shot so one of the two of those was the one which penetrated a lung and lodged in the heart. The other was a pass through which would have taken both lungs.

Red Leg said:

You really were lucky someone wasn't hurt.

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You should see the video....

Hank2211 said:

Hard to believe anyone could argue those performed as intended. My sarcastic nature forces me to point out you probably mis-used them. Firing them at an animal and all.

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Right or as has been suggested maybe I should have backed up 150 yards.

I can remember after an incident at work having a dream of shooting a bad guy and my rounds having no effect. He would just keep coming and coming until I would wake up. This whole lion experience was eerily close to that dream. Not to be over dramatic but it felt like that. I knew I was hitting him and hitting him well. I could see him bleeding but it was like I had a BB gun in my hands. It actually rattled me a bit as afterwards the adrenaline dump was unreal. I guess that's why that hunt is so special to me in that it was a hellava experience though I do wish it would have been much much more cleanly executed for the lions sake. I certainly never want to cause an animal any undue suffering. As it was it worked out and I got the Lion killed and we were all safe. It will be a cold day in hell before I ever take Hornady ammo into a fight again though.

@gizmo, did you happen to weigh those recovered slugs? I would be interested to know now much weight those slugs retained.

Hank2211 said:

Hard to believe anyone could argue those performed as intended. My sarcastic nature forces me to point out you probably mis-used them. Firing them at an animal and all.

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Yea, a bullet proof lion

Art Lambart II said:

@gizmo, did you happen to weigh those recovered slugs? I would be interested to know now much weight those slugs retained.

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I did but it was so long ago I don't remember. I posted the recovered weights on here before but I don't remember which post. May have been in the original hunt report. I remember the lowest was like 30% weight retention and the highest being the solid was something like 70% but don't quote me.

At the urging of several people, including some I have great respect for on here, I decided against my better judgement to take one more kick at this cat. I'm still not certain what the issue with the DGX in the photos is. It's exactly what I'd expect from a cup and core at what I suspect was quite close range and an ensuing high velocity impact. These aren't bonded bullets and these aren't mono metals. They are a plain old cup and core. Anyone that's shot a lot of cup and cores wouldn't be surprised. If you are looking for a bullet that retains lots of weight at high impact velocity then there are a million other choices but on a thin skinned animals like lions and leopards there are a lot of benefits to this type of performance and at lower impact velocities they look a lot different. I'm not sure how you can classify as expected performance as failure. Why would you use these type of bullets if not looking for this type of performance? Anyone that has shot a variety of bullet types shouldn't and wouldn't be surprised. The solid is intriguing and I guess my first question is are you certain you didn't mix a soft and a solid up? If not then I have no explanation for that one. (no tone of any sort intended and full disclosure I work with a television series that is sponsored by Hornady)

sheephunterab said:

............The solid is intriguing and I guess my first question is are you certain you didn't mix a soft and a solid up? If not then I have no explanation for that one. .......

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I was just looking at that image of the solid. It looks like a lead center.
I have zero clue of the Hornady Solid design, but aren't they solid? By the way, I assume all of them are "solid", as in one metal.
Please educate me on this one. Anyone!

There is actually lead inside of a thick steel and then copper jacket. There are some advantages to the weight of the lead in the bullet for reducing length of projectile and for accuracy but they definitely aren't intended to mushroom.

Thanks for that. I had no clue about the construction.

BRICKBURN said:

Thanks for that. I had no clue about the construction.

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Not a complete FMJ design however, the base is exposed. Perhaps this is why they're prone to deformation at the rear end.

sheephunterab said:

At the urging of several people, including some I have great respect for on here, I decided against my better judgement to take one more kick at this cat. I'm still not certain what the issue with the DGX in the photos is. It's exactly what I'd expect from a cup and core at what I suspect was quite close range and an ensuing high velocity impact. These aren't bonded bullets and these aren't mono metals. They are a plain old cup and core. Anyone that's shot a lot of cup and cores wouldn't be surprised. If you are looking for a bullet that retains lots of weight at high impact velocity then there are a million other choices but on a thin skinned animals like lions and leopards there are a lot of benefits to this type of performance and at lower impact velocities they look a lot different. I'm not sure how you can classify as expected performance as failure. Why would you use these type of bullets if not looking for this type of performance? Anyone that has shot a variety of bullet types shouldn't and wouldn't be surprised. The solid is intriguing and I guess my first question is are you certain you didn't mix a soft and a solid up? If not then I have no explanation for that one. (no tone of any sort intended and full disclosure I work with a television series that is sponsored by Hornady)

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In the most dangerous hunting situations, you need a bullet that performs every time, no matter what the circumstance.
http://www.hornady.com/store/DGX

Based on your posts in this thread regarding limiting velocity, avoiding twigs, proper shot angle, etc. that you'd have to agree the statement above from Hornady's website is bunk.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

Not a complete FMJ design however, the base is exposed. Perhaps this is why they're prone to deformation at the rear end.

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If it is like a tube of tooth paste with lead in the middle I can only imagine the force pushes the lead somewhere. (As the softest metal in the bullet.)

Every bullet has its limitations and performance envelope...I'm sure you realize that Phil. Your statement could apply to virtually every bullet made. I suspect most bullet manufacturers have similar advertising. I find it best to base my decisions on actual construction and performance. At the end of the day, it does perform every time though...just more optimal inside its performance envelope....with a properly placed shot of course. Basically like every other bullet ever made.

BRICKBURN said:

If it is like a tube of tooth paste with lead in the middle I can only imagine the force pushes the lead somewhere. (As the softest metal in the bullet.)

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The solid nose is what primarily controls the lack of expansion. The lead only needs to squeeze if the harder metals around it deform.

Recovered from Zim bull buff. 450 NE, put 6 rounds on him, 4 on his feet, 2 insurance. Not impressed with the bullets after the fact...however, he went down within 50 yards.

sheephunterab said:

Every bullet has its limitations and performance envelope...I'm sure you realize that Phil. Your statement could apply to virtually every bullet made. I suspect most bullet manufacturers have similar advertising. I find it best to base my decisions on actual construction and performance. At the end of the day, it does perform every time though...just more optimal inside its performance envelope....with a properly placed shot of course. Basically like every other bullet ever made.

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If you want to be limited to this bullet's performance envelope, so be it. I prefer a bigger envelope. I also prefer bullet companies not put out bullshit advertising like that.

BRICKBURN said:

If it is like a tube of tooth paste with lead in the middle I can only imagine the force pushes the lead somewhere. (As the softest metal in the bullet.)

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I would agree, particularly if the bullet gets off course and begins to tumble and the latter half of the bullet is no longer following the front.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

If you want to be limited to this bullet's performance envelope, so be it. I prefer a bigger envelope. I also prefer bullet companies not put out bullshit advertising like that.

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Bigger envelope is pretty subjective. I never suggested you use the DGX nor suggested that anyone use it and understanding bullet performance is why I choose the GMX for my buffalo and Vanessa used the GMX on her lion at Serapa.....we chose the bullet that best suited the situation we thought we'd encounter and the velocity we were shooting. It only made sense to us and it was a pretty simple process actually. I never even read the advertising to be honest. Watch Nosler's video on their Safari ammo or a host of others.....they all say the same thing. No BS....you just need to understand a bit bullet performance and understand that all bullets have a performance envelope and appreciate that if you stray outside of it that you won't get optimal performance but that certainly doesn't mean it won't kill. As always, shot placement is king. I'm not trying to talk anyone into shooting the DGX here...just trying to explain what happened so they can make an informed decision when they purchase ammo and not have to rely solely on advertising.