Exchange of gunfire with poachers/armed men in the bush

Shakka

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A person who I know really well and who has been on numerous safaris with the same PH in Zimbabwe, told me years ago of an incident which happened in the early 2000's, where him and his PH exchanged gunfire with armed men in the bush. The trackers-staff had gone off to get the vehicle, which was 5 or 6 miles away, and at some point during the wait, they were approached by 3 men who were armed with rifles. They surprised each other, at which point one of the men fired off a round and then all 3 began to run. My friend and the PH fired off several rounds at them as they were running through the bush. Blood was found at the scene, but they decided to go no further. They then made off into the bush a bit and hid until the vehicles return. They decided to NOT inform the staff about the incident, and it was not reported to the police etc either. Basically a "Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up" without the shoveling.

I know this man for a long time, and he is a veteran of the war in Iraq as well, so I have no reason to think that he is BSing me.

I am wondering if any of you have heard similar reports of incidents like this happening over the years?
 
A person who I know really well and who has been on numerous safaris with the same PH in Zimbabwe, told me years ago of an incident which happened in the early 2000's, where him and his PH exchanged gunfire with armed men in the bush. The trackers-staff had gone off to get the vehicle, which was 5 or 6 miles away, and at some point during the wait, they were approached by 3 men who were armed with rifles. They surprised each other, at which point one of the men fired off a round and then all 3 began to run. My friend and the PH fired off several rounds at them as they were running through the bush. Blood was found at the scene, but they decided to go no further. They then made off into the bush a bit and hid until the vehicles return. They decided to NOT inform the staff about the incident, and it was not reported to the police etc either. Basically a "Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up" without the shoveling.

I know this man for a long time, and he is a veteran of the war in Iraq as well, so I have no reason to think that he is BSing me.

I am wondering if any of you have heard similar reports of incidents like this happening over the years?
I have heard first-hand accounts of "People" dealing with "Poachers" to ensure they will not return.
 
Had a similar incident in Ethiopia several years ago.
 
I am wondering if any of you have heard similar reports of incidents like this happening over the years?
You will be interested to read following report:

 
Yes.
 
A person who I know really well and who has been on numerous safaris with the same PH in Zimbabwe, told me years ago of an incident which happened in the early 2000's, where him and his PH exchanged gunfire with armed men in the bush. The trackers-staff had gone off to get the vehicle, which was 5 or 6 miles away, and at some point during the wait, they were approached by 3 men who were armed with rifles. They surprised each other, at which point one of the men fired off a round and then all 3 began to run. My friend and the PH fired off several rounds at them as they were running through the bush. Blood was found at the scene, but they decided to go no further. They then made off into the bush a bit and hid until the vehicles return. They decided to NOT inform the staff about the incident, and it was not reported to the police etc either. Basically a "Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up" without the shoveling.

I know this man for a long time, and he is a veteran of the war in Iraq as well, so I have no reason to think that he is BSing me.

I am wondering if any of you have heard similar reports of incidents like this happening over the years?
Yes.
Rhodesia, 1976.

By the way, you don’t need to shovel up to dispose of a corpse. They can be detected by using hounds.

A tree trunk, a coil of nylon rope and a body of running water works much better.

What happens in the bush stays in the bush.
 
In the part of the world where I grew up, the police will be happy to do it for you. The term is called encounter
 
Earlier this year there were at least 2 incidences of South Sudanese Bushmen poachers firing on hunters and PH. In northern Uganda the Uganda military travel with the hunting group everyday on the truck.
I've hunted there more than once and in February the military detachment that was with us went out several times at night to deal with them. I personally had an encounter where poachers were setting snares and 3 of our military off loaded from the truck and were able to shoot dogs the poachers use to drive game into snares. The military squad leader told me personally that armed encounters had risen dramatically in just a few months.
 
I’ve been present two times when poachers were encountered and it got ‘western’. The first was in 1986, we were hunting in Northwest Zimbabwe, on Charara. One evening we were walking along the shore of Lake Kariba, following a set of buffalo tracks. Unexpectedly, a poacher came walking out of the bush up ahead of us and started running as soon as he noticed us. The game scout called out to him to stop, and when the guy kept running the game scout cut loose with several shots in his direction. I wasn’t expecting that! We never saw the guy again and I don’t recall seeing any blood. But that was one hell of a surprise. I’d never heard an AK firing in person until then.

The 2nd time was 1989 in northern Botswana, up near the Kwando River and Caprivi Strip. We were on the truck, following the tracks of a big herd of Buffalo that had passed the night before when we saw vultures circling less than half a mile away. Since our main quarry was a lion we thought that perhaps lions had killed a buffalo and were feeding on the kill. We parked the truck, loaded up and started toward all the vultures. There were dozens of vultures in the trees instead of the ground, so we naturally thought there were lions on the kill. We snuck in carefully, ready to shoot if there was a good male at the kill site. Instead of a good male lion we found two elephant bulls that had been shot by poachers. They had meat grilling on sticks over a small fire, the tusks had been chopped out and the poachers had taken off in a hurry with the ivory. My PH, Cecil Riggs, asked how many rounds of ammo I had on me and I asked why. His response was that as a PH, he was also a game officer and we were going to hunt these poachers down and kill all of them. He instructed me that as soon as we saw them that I should get behind a tree, then pick out a poacher and start shooting alongside him until we killed all of them. He said they’d be spraying AK fire back at us but they wouldn’t be aiming so I’d be fine as long as I had a tree to shield me. THAT WAS NOT WHAT I’D SIGNED UP FOR!!! I had a wife and 18 month old son back at home. As it turned out the poachers got to the river and crossed the border into Namibia before we caught up to them so I never had to find out what it was like to be shot at. That was a big relief.

About 18 months ago, Mayo Oldiri’s anti-poaching team got into a gun battle with poachers on the same block, Mayo Nduel, where I’d hunted Lord Derby Eland the year before. Juan, Mayo Oldiri’s general manager, was shot & killed while Melo, the head of anti-poaching, was shot in the face & chest but survived. I spent several evenings with both of them when I was hunting there. They were damn good men, doing important work when this tragedy happened.

On a related vein, I’ve been meaning to start a thread on here about one of Africa’s most successful anti-poaching programs ever - Operation Stronghold; of which I had a tangential role back in the late 1980’s. Now that this current thread has come about I’ll have to write about that endeavor. It was very successful, so much so that it had to be shut down by Zim Parks. For now I’ll just say that there has probably never been a more successful anti-poaching campaign in history as, from 1987-1990, it rendered well over 200 poachers to a status where they never poached another rhino or elephant.
 
After reading the responses here, as a follow up I will admit that the guy "I know" might have been me

It happened almost 20 years ago in Zimbabwe in matebeleland south.

The blood wasn't dark arterial blood, but within the 50 yards that we followed up, the person fell several times, so I would imagine that out in the middle of nowhere and after being hit by a rifle round, it didn't work out too well for him
 
A person who I know really well and who has been on numerous safaris with the same PH in Zimbabwe, told me years ago of an incident which happened in the early 2000's, where him and his PH exchanged gunfire with armed men in the bush. The trackers-staff had gone off to get the vehicle, which was 5 or 6 miles away, and at some point during the wait, they were approached by 3 men who were armed with rifles. They surprised each other, at which point one of the men fired off a round and then all 3 began to run. My friend and the PH fired off several rounds at them as they were running through the bush. Blood was found at the scene, but they decided to go no further. They then made off into the bush a bit and hid until the vehicles return. They decided to NOT inform the staff about the incident, and it was not reported to the police etc either. Basically a "Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up" without the shoveling.

I know this man for a long time, and he is a veteran of the war in Iraq as well, so I have no reason to think that he is BSing me.

I am wondering if any of you have heard similar reports of incidents like this happening over the years?
Yes Sir. I was hunting on the property. That is all. Hedge, out.
 
I’ve been present two times when poachers were encountered and it got ‘western’. The first was in 1986, we were hunting in Northwest Zimbabwe, on Charara. One evening we were walking along the shore of Lake Kariba, following a set of buffalo tracks. Unexpectedly, a poacher came walking out of the bush up ahead of us and started running as soon as he noticed us. The game scout called out to him to stop, and when the guy kept running the game scout cut loose with several shots in his direction. I wasn’t expecting that! We never saw the guy again and I don’t recall seeing any blood. But that was one hell of a surprise. I’d never heard an AK firing in person until then.

The 2nd time was 1989 in northern Botswana, up near the Kwando River and Caprivi Strip. We were on the truck, following the tracks of a big herd of Buffalo that had passed the night before when we saw vultures circling less than half a mile away. Since our main quarry was a lion we thought that perhaps lions had killed a buffalo and were feeding on the kill. We parked the truck, loaded up and started toward all the vultures. There were dozens of vultures in the trees instead of the ground, so we naturally thought there were lions on the kill. We snuck in carefully, ready to shoot if there was a good male at the kill site. Instead of a good male lion we found two elephant bulls that had been shot by poachers. They had meat grilling on sticks over a small fire, the tusks had been chopped out and the poachers had taken off in a hurry with the ivory. My PH, Cecil Riggs, asked how many rounds of ammo I had on me and I asked why. His response was that as a PH, he was also a game officer and we were going to hunt these poachers down and kill all of them. He instructed me that as soon as we saw them that I should get behind a tree, then pick out a poacher and start shooting alongside him until we killed all of them. He said they’d be spraying AK fire back at us but they wouldn’t be aiming so I’d be fine as long as I had a tree to shield me. THAT WAS NOT WHAT I’D SIGNED UP FOR!!! I had a wife and 18 month old son back at home. As it turned out the poachers got to the river and crossed the border into Namibia before we caught up to them so I never had to find out what it was like to be shot at. That was a big relief.

About 18 months ago, Mayo Oldiri’s anti-poaching team got into a gun battle with poachers on the same block, Mayo Nduel, where I’d hunted Lord Derby Eland the year before. Juan, Mayo Oldiri’s general manager, was shot & killed while Melo, the head of anti-poaching, was shot in the face & chest but survived. I spent several evenings with both of them when I was hunting there. They were damn good men, doing important work when this tragedy happened.

On a related vein, I’ve been meaning to start a thread on here about one of Africa’s most successful anti-poaching programs ever - Operation Stronghold; of which I had a tangential role back in the late 1980’s. Now that this current thread has come about I’ll have to write about that endeavor. It was very successful, so much so that it had to be shut down by Zim Parks. For now I’ll just say that there has probably never been a more successful anti-poaching campaign in history as, from 1987-1990, it rendered well over 200 poachers to a status where they never poached another rhino or elephant.
I have been shot at, on purpose and out of malice. I can tell you this, "Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth." - Mike Tyson
 
Apologies to those who have served in the line of fire, whatever the profession.
It is a sad day when a human beings' life is measured by the cost of a game animal.
That being said, it becomes moot when you are being fired upon. I chose to make it home to my family.
Unfortunately, they did not.
 
Apologies to those who have served in the line of fire, whatever the profession.
It is a sad day when a human beings' life is measured by the cost of a game animal.
That being said, it becomes moot when you are being fired upon. I chose to make it home to my family.
Unfortunately, they did not.
I agree and I wouldn't fire on an unarmed poacher either, even if the PH did. That's his business and if he is ok with it morally that's on him.

I was a SWAT officer for 12 years and I had been in similar situations a few times before this encounter, so when the round went off I didn't hesitate. If you are carrying a weapon you are fair game
 
I think I recall a Tim Miranda video hunting somewhere in africa and they got shot at- might have been caught in a political uprising or some. I will have to see if I can find the video-
 
I think this would be a very rare event in today’s Africa where most hunters go (exceptions for central and west Africa). Every meat poacher I’ve seen has run. They know if they stand their ground they are likely to lose in the end in some way. If they run, the hunting party likely isn’t going to directly pursue. They’ll call in anti-poaching that will take some time to arrive then punishments generally aren’t that heavy if caught and if they even get prosecuted. If a white man kills a black man in Africa in a situation like this, he stands to lose a lot. The law will favor the black man. The shoot, shovel, shut up idea sounds great until you realize he wasn’t alone and his friends report the incident or a tracker decides he’s been wronged a year or two later. Most outfitters and PHs I’ve seen want to leave this stuff to their black anti-poaching guys or game rangers. There seems to be more acceptance of this by locals than a white man being directly involved.
The only area poachers really concerned me was Cameroon. We saw them, they ran, but that doesn’t mean you can’t run into the wrong one. Especially if it was a surprise encounter up close. The nomadic cattle herders can also be violent there and could be seen daily. They receive constant “harassment” to leave the hunting areas. Also, something I found interesting. There are kidnappings in northern Cameroon and the gangs can hide in the hunting areas. I asked my PH if foreign hunters were targets. He said No and the reasoning made a lot of sense. When they kidnap their own, the authorities won’t go out of their way to find them afterwards. If they kidnap an American, the army will be in next day to wipe them out. I suspect that is part of reason no Americans have been targeted in Niassa also.
 

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