How to be polite, but honest, about trophy quality?

Is the hunter happy with their trophy? Yes: then tell them congratulations and keep your opinion to yourself. No: they already know.

Is someone asking your thoughts about an outfitter and should they go there? This is when your opinion is good to give.

A good friend says they're going to place X that you have a negative opinion about? You should know your friend well enough to know how to give your suggestions or stay silent.

I think it’s important to know why you are wanting to comment
For instance, if they asked your opinion, be honest
If they have a goal and have done something contrary to that goal, explain to them why. If someone is trying to manage a deer herd to have mature bucks and shot a monster 3 year old, sure it’s a good deer, but it will negatively effect their goal and they should know
If they are just showing you something they are proud of, be supportive

Hmmmmm.

It's probably always a bad idea to give negative unsolicited feedback. If people are genuinely asking, I tell them. Most of the time, they already know, and all any of us have to offer is an opinion.

Comparison is the thief of joy. Unless you're one of 29 guys on the planet, someone has a better North American trophy than you. Same goes in Africa.

It does bug me though when people don't get value for their money. I know someone who recently returned from his first safari. It was on a smallish high-fence property in RSA. I think the whole thing started as a show auction that turned into a big hunting party and a big upsell for the outfitter. The trophies were fine. No monsters. Mostly representative. What they had to pay for these ordinary animals, was, to me, downright robbery. A 48" kudu was many, many thousands more than I've ever heard of. I kept my mouth shut and congratulated them for a nice hunt. Had they asked me before they went, I might have tried to point them in a better direction. Maybe they would have done it. Maybe not.

While they had fun, in reality, they were taken advantage of. At the end of the day, we all have to figure out what works for us. Due diligence. Education. Comparison shopping. We all have different goals. Some people are happy to shoot fish in a barrel and others aren't happy unless they've lost a few toes, caught malaria, and almost bled out up on the mountain.

At this point in my life, I'm looking for friends who have the ability to genuinely, deeply, truly, sincerely, be thrilled for a person who got a bigger critter than he did.

I think it is like anything else people measure. It probably really doesn't matter.

Globally, starting in Europe, but spread to North America and New Zealand there is a lot of trophy per this size pricing. Whitetails in Texas, I am specifically talking about the King Ranch as they have used this model forever (wild whitetails, not high fence). Red deer globally, almost everything in mainland or Eastern Europe has this model.

Last year is a perfect example. 3 different red deer hunts on 3 different places. 2 in Germany and 1 in Slovenia. I had by all accounts 1 September a great day. I shot a 147 CIC Fallow deer, a 147 CIC red deer and a badger. It wasn't super taxing, there was a fairly long break during the middle of the day, where I drove into town in Bled, Slovenia. But it was a nice day. That was the opener, and everything happened instantly as nothing had been hunted since December 30th. Was kind of well boring. The fallow deer was a nice trophy, I think it is a bronze, the stag is modest. A good representative, it was a nice time.

About 4 weeks later it's the end of September and I am at Grafenwoehr hunting during the red deer rut. It's one of those perfect rut hunts. The entire forest is alive with stags rutting. But the fog is killing it, heavy fog. I can see glimpses of stags darting in and out of the fog, but getting one in a rifle scope proves impossible. My guide is just ok. He is not terribly bothered by trying to do anything else to kill a stag. And because of the unexploded ordnance on Graf they mostly only let you hunt from a high seat. I probably saw 100 stags. Between driving and sitting. Never pulled the trigger. The streckeladen (where they lay out all the stags shot and have a big party), was kind of rough as hard as the hunting was. Was an amazing experience, the weather killed it. The guide did not help.

Another month or two go by and I am in Hohenfels Germany for a driven hunt. The first morning a broken main beam antlered stag comes through within a few minutes of getting set up. I have several opportunities to kill him, he's huge. Probably score 360 in SCI or 190 in CIC. He's very broken, I put my cross hairs on him, I think about it, but don't shoot. An hour later I killed a hind, and the following day I kill a spike stag and a wild boar. The spike has corkscrew spiraled horns like a 2 year old kudu. Trophy of a lifetime. But, does it matter?

In 2024 I am in Hungary on a roe deer hunt. First evening I shoot a 365 CIC buck, beautiful buck. Perfect in everyway, my favorite roe deer of all time. Shot some small bucks and the last evening I shoot a 480 buck. SCI Medal for sure. Biggest buck on that hunt amongst 8 hunters. But here is the problem, he's not very interesting looking. He is almost boring. No trash, straight heavy. antlers. Squeeks in as a Bronze medal, but he is massively bigger than any other buck. In this case score does not matter.

I just scanned the first couple of pages of responses, and it seems most of the guys are staying tight-lipped about the matter.

I might differ, BUT only to my really close friends. If it's someone I have a long-standing relationship with and feel it's a topic I can broach, I will point it out in the context of trying to assist them with what to look for on their next trip. If it's just an associate or client of mine, I will only respond if asked. The fact that they are asking tells me they already have suspicions.

Ask the person, are you familiar with the term "Ground Shrinkage?"

ranger92xi said:

I have a dilemma of sorts. A lot of friends and clients of mine show me their hunting photos from African safaris, and are very proud of them. I also see a lot of people showing off photos on this forum, and whilst some are lucky and shoot some beautiful animals, others come back with animals which, sooner or later, they will realise they should never have been charged trophy price for.

I have done 17+ safaris of my own, and I am an official SCI measurer, and so I know what good trophies, great trophies, and sub-par/immature animals look like.

So here is the question...how do we balance honesty with protecting people's feelings? How do we support hunters who have made the journey to Africa and come back with animals that they are happy with (at least for now), whilst also calling out the PHs and outfitters who pass off immature, substandard animals as trophies?

I know we cannot expect all hunters to know the record books, or be able to age animals through binoculars, and I know that sometimes, a client's age, impatience or lack of mobility, or even the weather, means shooting a marginal animal becomes a necessity, but there must be a way forward. Maybe PHASA should publish a minimum trophy standard, like NAPHA do in Namibia?

Very curious to hear everyone's thoughts.

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Not every animal is a trophy, not every hunter has to have a trophy and certainly not every animal is a record. Then there are such a thing called a cull. The only thing I even remotely agree with you on is the age. I don’t like to see young animals harvested unless they obviously need to be culled.

My daughter, at the advice of the guide, shot what wound up being a cull buck that’s bigger than anything I’ve ever shot. My proudest moment of the whole hunt was listening to the guide sounding like the guy on swamp people telling her to shoot it, shoot it,,,,, while my son was standing next to her saying, I don’t think he’s that big, but he is a mature buck. My daughter asked him what he would do and he just said, he is mature. Her response was, I don’t want to shoot a young one. Turned out my son was right, quite a bit of ground shrinkage but he was a grandpa.

Personally I have no use for SCI’s
record book or awards program. I believe that they create the wrong incentives in hunting. For me the quality of the hunt and the age of the animal harvested are what matters. My trophies take me back to those hunts. What anyone else thinks of them is completely irrelevant to me. And yes, I have taken some very good trophies that I am sure would score quite well, I just don’t care.

And no, I would never comment negatively on someone else’s trophy.

From what I can see you are looking for a nice way to do your job as a scorer and not hurt someone's feelings on what they have been told is a gold medal animal.

My suggestion would be to take the person in as you measure the animal and show them the scoring method and have them watch you measure the first one and use it as a teaching moment. That way you can point out +'s and -'s of what they shot. It educates them and you also can talk about ground and drying process shrinkage. Then politely say is is a great first animal that is a good representative of the sepsis. What a nice experience and adventure you must have had. Can you believe the sunsets and sunrises in africa. Kinda phrase things to have them think of all the facets that make up the memory of a hunt.

As we all mature as hunters things we look for are different. I get a bit upset when a cull is sold off as a "monster". With those situations I say nice animal. How did you select your outfitter? Ok cool Here is how my wife and I select the outfitter we have hunted with.

Thanks everyone for your stories and feedback. Just to bring this back round to the core points:

1. Every hunter has the right to decide what is/is not a trophy in their eyes, and noone can or should tell them otherwise.
2. Some hunters care about measurements and others do not.
3. They key question - Some hunters actively come to me asking for opinions or official measurements and then get very disappointed when their animals are a lot smaller than they expected / had been told by their PH. This is the category I am focused on.
4. In those situations, where a client has been misled, or charged trophy fees for animals they expected to score highly, but which did not, how best do we approach that sensitive topic.
5. Where a client has shot an immature or subpar animal, thinking it is a big trophy, and where the same outfitter is involved in several cases, what steps can be taken.

AZDAVE said:

From what I can see you are looking for a nice way to do your job as a scorer and not hurt someone's feelings on what they have been told is a gold medal animal.

My suggestion would be to take the person in as you measure the animal and show them the scoring method and have them watch you measure the first one and use it as a teaching moment. That way you can point out +'s and -'s of what they shot. It educates them and you also can talk about ground and drying process shrinkage. Then politely say is is a great first animal that is a good representative of the sepsis. What a nice experience and adventure you must have had. Can you believe the sunsets and sunrises in africa. Kinda phrase things to have them think of all the facets that make up the memory of a hunt.

As we all mature as hunters things we look for are different. I get a bit upset when a cull is sold off as a "monster". With those situations I say nice animal. How did you select your outfitter? Ok cool Here is how my wife and I select the outfitter we have hunted with.

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This is the exact sort of response I was looking for. How to be supportive but also educate where we can, so that in future, the hunter can be a bit more autonomous and avoid getting into the same situation again. I try and illustrate the measurement, and then laugh when they come back and say 'PH says they shrunk during taxidermy', or 'salt makes horns shrink'! I then have to tell them that no amount of salt on earth would make a kudu horns shrink 9 inches!

One man's trophy is one man's trophy.
I finished the grand slam on North American sheep. The Dall Sheep was a 30"x34" slightly mishapen ram. Some see it and say, "well that is a nice one", when I know they are somewhat unimpressed.

What they do not know is that on a 10 day hunt, we were rained/fogged inside our tents for 8 days. I spotted this ram on that last hunting day and with about 5 hours of visibility. Made a beast of a climb, made a good shot, got off the mountain and out of the mountains with minutes to spare. My hunting buddy and I were in a 2 man pup tent for 8 days solid in really bad weather.
So, whenever the topic of sheep hunting comes up, this story takes the cake.
It is my finest and smallest sheep.

So, give grace when viewing another man's trophies.

Same goes for his wife or kids or dog.

ranger92xi said:

This is the exact sort of response I was looking for. How to be supportive but also educate where we can, so that in future, the hunter can be a bit more autonomous and avoid getting into the same situation again. I try and illustrate the measurement, and then laugh when they come back and say 'PH says they shrunk during taxidermy', or 'salt makes horns shrink'! I then have to tell them that no amount of salt on earth would make a kudu horns shrink 9 inches!

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After reading this and your summarization of the points, I can say I do agree with you trying to be politically correct and still giving an honest opinion. Earlier, I thought you were being ‘that guy’ who always had a better trophy.

“Honest opinions” are generally not the best idea.

“Honey, does this dress make my butt look big?”

There is an art to having an unspoken thought.

Some of us don’t care about measurements…

dogcat1 said:

One man's trophy is one man's trophy.
I finished the grand slam on North American sheep. The Dall Sheep was a 30"x34" slightly mishapen ram. Some see it and say, "well that is a nice one", when I know they are somewhat unimpressed.

What they do not know is that on a 10 day hunt, we were rained/fogged inside our tents for 8 days. I spotted this ram on that last hunting day and with about 5 hours of visibility. Made a beast of a climb, made a good shot, got off the mountain and out of the mountains with minutes to spare. My hunting buddy and I were in a 2 man pup tent for 8 days solid in really bad weather.
So, whenever the topic of sheep hunting comes up, this story takes the cake.
It is my finest and smallest sheep.

So, give grace when viewing another man's trophies.

Same goes for his wife or kids or dog.

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Wise words...

When I see the pics shown by our members in their hunt reports, I will always congratulate them.

I will also take note of those Outfitters who let their clients shoot animal that are not mature.

Not much more we can do without being rude.

Killo said:

Some of us don’t care about measurements…

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Those are some ancient beasts. Well done.

ranger92xi said:

In those situations, where a client has been misled, or charged trophy fees for animals they expected to score highly, but which did not, how best do we approach that sensitive topic.
5. Where a client has shot an immature or subpar animal, thinking it is a big trophy, and where the same outfitter is involved in several cases, what steps can be taken

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Why assume it’s the PH that needs to remedy things?

For most of us, you are looking at least $10k+ (hunt, trophy fees, tips, airfare, shipping taxidermy), 2 weeks off from work and the rest to life’s obligations, and ~24hrs from the door of your house to camp, best case. Isn’t some modicum of research or study warranted on the animals and areas you are hunting? (Hell, you could even do it on the plane these days).

Let’s face it, there is a lot that happens “in the bush”, and a price point for every market. What you don’t know:
- Did the client have jet lag, buck fever, or was hung over from the open bar at camp the night before? Did he actually shoot the right animal?
- Was it a “pay by the inch place” and he paid for the inches he could afford?

I can’t tell what is really, really going on in this meandering thread. Is this an AH version of “ask Miss Manners” about telling people their trophies are small? Is this seeking to form a defense fund for the ill informed international hunter? Is it frustration other people just don’t care that much about the inches?

Killo said:

Some of us don’t care about measurements…

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Freakin STUDS!