Rigby Big Game cycling issues

Russ16 said:

Rigby doesn't owe and explanation to anyone on this forum, only to the owner or potential buyer.

I don't think they should be commenting on a gun not in their possession based on a single poor picture, they don't know anything else about how the gun has been handled or possibly damaged.

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Read Rigby's response. They acknowledge this model is designed so the bolt "bites" into the follower.

"Rigby considered the variables on this caliber and prioritized feeding and extracting rounds over closing the bolt while the rifle is empty.”

Rigby is not commenting on the rifle in the picture. The are talking about all the guns they make in this model and caliber.

What I don't understand is why Rigby didn't just make the follower blunt ended to block the bolt when fully retracted on an empty magazine (military follower design) instead of allowing the bolt to partly cycle closed before biting into the follower ramp. That seems a no brainer. More and more I'm thinking a "normal" follower for another cartridge narrower in the shoulder was used instead of designing one specifically for 450.

Reading the most recent comments in this thread, I see that @Ontario Hunter has some further questions about the design features of the .450 Rigby Big Game model. I would be happy to put you in touch with Slade Stevens at Rigby in London. If you are interested, please send me your WhatsApp number or email in private message and I will put you in touch with him right away.

RIGBY said:

Reading the most recent comments in this thread, I see that @Ontario Hunter has some further questions about the design features of the .450 Rigby Big Game model. I would be happy to put you in touch with Slade Stevens at Rigby in London. If you are interested, please send me your WhatsApp number or email in private message and I will put you in touch with him right away.

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What did Slade do to deserve that?


Safe shooting

RIGBY said:

Reading the most recent comments in this thread, I see that @Ontario Hunter has some further questions about the design features of the .450 Rigby Big Game model. I would be happy to put you in touch with Slade Stevens at Rigby in London. If you are interested, please send me your WhatsApp number or email in private message and I will put you in touch with him right away.

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He's not interested in the answers he's interested in trying to be smarter than everyone else. He's achieving the opposite.

Even seizing on the word "bite" which is used differently in different circumstances and different countries is showing his silliness.

I really hope someone can come
Along and ignore material
Information, inflate verbiage to suit and desired end and restate a bellyache not their own. Love pages upon pages of whiny bitching and bemoaning drama not their own but trying to burr into it anyway…it’s almost like some of these whiny younger gen folks always finding a way to paint themselves a victim and bemoan something. Today’s modern malcontent…biped Eeyore.

Tried reading some of this thread after the first page, and outside Franz attempt to explain something shared to him that he admitted was outside his wheelhouse, all I’ve seen here is re-spewing same drivel and drama. Restating the same assumptions over and again. Good job!

Crazy how many warm and wonderful Canadians I’ve met over the years…we always seem to escape the cold to Hawaii around the same times…and never met one I didn’t enjoy chatting with until this forum. Thinking I’m reaching a point where I need to learn how to do this ignore function others have admitted using to help improve their forum experience. Sad…but true.

SFRanger7GP said:

What did Slade do to deserve that?


Safe shooting

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At this point you have to admit it would prove way more tolerable for Slade to exchange WhatsApp messages and receive lectures, proper enlightening education, from the Ontariodude…in PRIVATE…save us this repetitive blah blah. I feel dumber and dumberer by each post.

At least Slade gets paid…so there is some benefit…I just read some of this for free. I’m at a net zero at best.

But…if I get called a Hillbilly for my contributions, can I be a RedneckHillbilly? I like the resound of it. I mean…as some sleezebag lawyer, I get called worse on the regular. I do delight in receipt of random name calling at times…especially when it’s some veggie-murdering vegan calling me a Cee U Next Tuesday on social media because I shot a croc, cute moose, or mountain sheep. It’s like the name callers rush to their puters just to find something they can disagree with, complain about, and bemoan…and someone to complain to or about. Sad life. So call me a name, I’ll like it and at least find a little joy in hopefully making your day better for accepting it.

Cheers.

RIGBY said:

Reading the most recent comments in this thread, I see that @Ontario Hunter has some further questions about the design features of the .450 Rigby Big Game model. I would be happy to put you in touch with Slade Stevens at Rigby in London. If you are interested, please send me your WhatsApp number or email in private message and I will put you in touch with him right away.

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Since many who have weighed in on this discussion choose to ignore me, perhaps it would be better if you asked Mr Stevens to explain how a follower that jumps the rail assists in loading and ejecting only the final cartridge. Then you can cut and paste the explanation here. Clearly you have more credibility than me. That way it will be shared with all who are interested. Also, ask why the follower is not designed to block the bolt when fully retracted (like military Mausers) if it's not going to close on an empty magazine anyway.

Ontario Hunter said:

Since many who have weighed in on this discussion choose to ignore me, perhaps it would be better if you asked Mr Stevens to explain how a follower that jumps the rail assists in loading and ejecting only the final cartridge. Then you can cut and paste the explanation here. That way it will be shared with all who are interested. Also, ask why the follower is not designed to block the bolt when fully retracted (like military Mausers) if it's not going to close on an empty magazine anyway.

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Why does a manufacturer owe you an explanation of how or why they design something a certain way when there is 0.0% possibility of you buying their rifle?

If I remember your past posts correctly, you have owned exactly three rifles in your entire life including the one your dad gave you and the one you put together, but have not taken hunting?

I would ask Rigby not to respond as it will only result in you lecturing the engineers and gunsmiths at Mauser about how they are doing it all wrong based on your experience.

Keeping in mind Mauser supplies actions (maybe barreled actions?) to Rigby, I trust the engineers at Mauser are comfortable designing Mauser 98 parts and their employees putting them together more than the knowledge you gained with your project and waaayyyy more than an unknown employee at Cabela’s describing anything.

Russ16 said:

He's not interested in the answers he's interested in trying to be smarter than everyone else. He's achieving the opposite.

Even seizing on the word "bite" which is used differently in different circumstances and different countries is showing his silliness.

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"Bite" was quoted from Rigby's description. Not my words. Last time I checked it has the same meaning in London as North America. From the Cambridge Dictionary: "the harmful effect of something" or "using teeth to cut into something." Merriam-Webster: "surface that creates friction or is brought into contact with another for the purpose of obtaining a hold". Take your pick. Purposeful abrasion.

I am interested in answers that answer. We all should be.

Ontario Hunter said:

"Bite" was quoted from Rigby's description. Not my words. Last time I checked it has the same meaning in London as North America. From the Cambridge Dictionary: "the harmful effect of something" or "using teeth to cut into something." Merriam-Webster: "surface that creates friction or is brought into contact with another for the purpose of obtaining a hold". Take your pick. Purposeful abrasion.

I am interested in answers that answer. We all should be.

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Dude quit being such a boomer.

Your literally the steryotypical boomer thats gotten the world to despise your generation as a whole.

Huf453 said:

It's pretty normal for these Rigby Big Game rifles especially the .450 version.

It's a classic Mauser military style feature: the follower pops up to block the bolt from fully closing on an empty mag. It acts as a tactile reminder you're out of ammo handy for dangerous game under stress. Many traditional Mausers do this; you just push the follower down lightly to rack it for dry practice.

Owners report it varies by caliber more common on .450 than .416/.404, and it's by design from Rigby not a defect. Some love the safety aspect, others find it annoying for dry firing drills and bevel the follower to fix it. If rapid empty cycling is important to you like on a Dakota or Model 70, test one in person or ask Rigby directly. For a PH dangerous game gun, it's not a dealbreaker for most.

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I grew up shooting match rifles on ex military actions , made on Kongsberg . That was very usual on it . Most custom Mauser sport rifles / hunting rifles were polished to reduce the height so bolt could clear all the time .

With the long series of clip fed ammo loading the match rifle shooters would loose mix time if they loaded « nothing « into the chamber in moments that would not afford to loose time .

Tex .416 said:

Why does a manufacturer owe you an explanation of how or why they design something a certain way when there is 0.0% possibility of you buying their rifle?

If I remember your past posts correctly, you have owned exactly three rifles in your entire life including the one your dad gave you and the one you put together, but have not taken hunting?

I would ask Rigby not to respond as it will only result in you lecturing the engineers and gunsmiths at Mauser about how they are doing it all wrong based on your experience.

Keeping in mind Mauser supplies actions (maybe barreled actions?) to Rigby, I trust the engineers at Mauser are comfortable designing Mauser 98 parts and their employees putting them together more than the knowledge you gained with your project and waaayyyy more than an unknown employee at Cabela’s describing anything.

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The question that started this thread was is there something wrong with the Rigby PH model that behaved in a particular novel way when the employee at Cabelas examined it for the prospective long distance buyer on the phone. If I'd been the employee and tried to cycle that gun empty, I'd have thought something was wrong with it when the bolt collided with and stuck against the follower as the action was being closed. I'm not a gunsmith by any means but I've handled plenty enough guns to know that is not normal. Block the bolt fully retracted or let it cycle and close all the way on an empty magazine, that's normal. The explanation provided doesn't really explain anything. Others with more expertise than me have questioned why Rigby's new innovation is needed (Mr d'Arcey for example). Rigby has admitted this new design sacrifices snap-over and that in itself should throw up a red flag for anyone who hunts dangerous game. Or for anyone who can let themselves think outside the box. I think if I was cycling this rifle in the heat of the moment and the bolt suddenly stuck half way to closing, my first thought would be faulty round, not empty magazine. My instinct would probably be to try cycling it again. That could be a fatal mistake.

Ontario Hunter said:

…..when the employee at Cabelas examined it for the prospective long distance buyer on the phone….

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That fact to me is why all of the discussion that follows is little more than speculation at best. The longer this discussion has gone, the less clear the original comment from the Cabela’s employee becomes. The picture adds almost nothing. The rifle needs to be looked at in hand to have any basis for meaningful understanding of what, if anything, is occurring and related comment.

And OH, while we get crossways on occasion, I do give you credit for your effort to build you own rifle. My only real criticism is you need to take it out hunting and enjoy. Take it deer hunting if that is what is available. Go enjoy it and put it to the real test of taking it hunting.

ETA: Can we please be a bit more precise in terminology about “snap over”? The extractor snapping over a chambered round to me is “snap over”. The bolt locking back on an empty mag is a separate feature/function. As yet another variation, I own a custom rifle built in the 60’s on a military Mauser that does not lock the bolt back on an empty mag, but also has an unmodified extractor and thus will not snap over a chambered round.

Learning to load under stress is a training issue regardless of the rifle, pistol, or shotgun used.

Tex .416 said:

That fact to me is why all of the discussion that follows is little more than speculation at best. The longer this discussion has gone, the less clear the original comment from the Cabela’s employee becomes. The picture adds almost nothing. The rifle needs to be looked at in hand to have any basis for meaningful understanding of what, if anything, is occurring and related comment.

And OH, while we get crossways on occasion, I do give you credit for your effort to build you own rifle. My only real criticism is you need to take it out hunting and enjoy. Take it deer hunting if that is what is available. Go enjoy it and put it to the real test of taking it hunting.

ETA: Can we please be a bit more precise in terminology about “snap over”? The extractor snapping over a chambered round to me is “snap over”. The bolt locking back on an empty mag is a separate feature/function. As yet another variation, I own a custom rifle built in the 60’s on a military Mauser that does not lock the bolt back on an empty mag, but also has an unmodified extractor and thus will not snap over a chambered round.

Learning to load under stress is a training issue regardless of the rifle, pistol, or shotgun used.

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The term "snap over " refers to a modification to the factory extractor on Mauser rifles to force the extractor to slip over and grab the rim of a cartridge when it is pushed into the chamber, it is not part of the original design regardless of what some say. It can weaken the extractor depending upon how the clearance is inside the receiver ( between the edge of the extractor and the inside of the receiver), most will clear, but not all.
The empty bolt hold open is basically just the shape of the rear of the follower, it can be modified to close on an empty magazine with a simple re-shaping of the rear of the follower.
My take on what happened with the original file in question was that some idiot has slammed the bolt forward and forced it out of the feed rails , this may be an easy fix, but without decent pictures or the rifle in hand , it is pure speculation.
Gumpy

Russ16 said:

He's not interested in the answers he's interested in trying to be smarter than everyone else. He's achieving the opposite.

Even seizing on the word "bite" which is used differently in different circumstances and different countries is showing his silliness.

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Ohoo do stop it he’ll rise to the bite…or..bite off more then he can chew

Wildwillalaska said:

But…if I get called a Hillbilly for my contributions, can I be a RedneckHillbilly? I like the resound of it. I mean…as some sleezebag lawyer, I get called worse on the regular. I do delight in receipt of random name calling at times…especially when it’s some veggie-murdering vegan calling me a Cee U Next Tuesday on social media because I shot a croc, cute moose, or mountain sheep. It’s like the name callers rush to their puters just to find something they can disagree with, complain about, and bemoan…and someone to complain to or about. Sad life. So call me a name, I’ll like it and at least find a little joy in hopefully making your day better for accepting it.

Cheers.

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Woah, woah, woah! RedneckHillbilly is my name!

Grumpy gumpy said:

The term "snap over " refers to a modification to the factory extractor on Mauser rifles to force the extractor to slip over and grab the rim of a cartridge when it is pushed into the chamber, it is not part of the original design regardless of what some say. It can weaken the extractor depending upon how the clearance is inside the receiver ( between the edge of the extractor and the inside of the receiver), most will clear, but not all.
The empty bolt hold open is basically just the shape of the rear of the follower, it can be modified to close on an empty magazine with a simple re-shaping of the rear of the follower.
My take on what happened with the original file in question was that some idiot has slammed the bolt forward and forced it out of the feed rails , this may be an easy fix, but without decent pictures or the rifle in hand , it is pure speculation.
Gumpy

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No, not the idiot's fault. Read Rigby's response. Apparently the follower for this model is designed to jump the rail at shoulder. Dual purpose is supposed to be 1) stopping the bolt from closing on an empty chamber by bolt purposely colliding with middle follower ramp and 2) to somehow assist in loading/ejecting a large caliber cartridge.

normal for military mauser actions. if needed one can shave the corner of the follower that the bolt touches first to help it ride over.

Beck said:

Woah, woah, woah! RedneckHillbilly is my name!

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I mean…even as plano Hillbillies, aren’t we likely brothers from other mothers…as RedneckHillbillies, we’re certainly brothers of at least additional familial ties. That’s why when I asked that teachin lady how to draw that family tree thing…she said “Will…just draw a damn circle.”

So not surprised if we end up named the same, even if by accident. You can only come up with so many new names before you have to try and start reusing the same but with misspellings and phonetics to try and make it somehow cutesie or creative.

My ex-sister in law tried to name her twins since such a way…but since she can’t spell to save her life (not that I’m any better) she misspelled both on their birth cert applications. So now, 14yr later, they are both named something that written just makes zero sense annunciation wise. First time greeters always guess wrong how to say it, folks who know how to say it would never guess how to say it. It’s like saying my name is Bob but it’s pronounced “Phil.”

Wanna talk about being “designed to go off the rails at the shoulder”…lol…some things you just can’t make up not fix…you just learn to deal and love it as it exists…regardless how f’d up it might be.