Rigby Big Game cycling issues

Before I chime in, let me ask someone with a lot more knowledge about this and report back.
 
I just received a response from Slade Stevens, the team member at Rigby who runs the Big Game line:

“Rigby can confirm the .450 Rigby Big Game was manufactured to function that way. In other words, the movement of the follower is a feature, rather than an issue.

The .450 Rigby round is a heavy round for a bolt action rifle so Rigby designed the follower to move a certain way to ensure the final shot always feeds and ejects correctly from the magazine.

As a result, when the rifle is empty, the follower bites on the bolt.

Rigby considered the variables on this caliber and prioritized feeding and extracting rounds over closing the bolt while the rifle is empty.”

If anyone has further questions, I can either connect you with Slade directly or relay them for response. Please be sure to tag me so that I don’t miss your question.
 
Interesting. But the jumping-the-rails follower is apparently not a feature of 416 Rigby which has same OAL as 450 and in fact 416 has a wider shoulder (0.54" vs 0.492"). Rim diameter is same for both. I am at a loss to see how the jumping follower would assist with loading the last cartridge. 450 is significantly wider bullet but if the cartridges stuffed below it in the magazine come up okay into chamber, I don't see why the last one should need extra lift from an escaped follower. Perhaps it is to assist with ejecting loaded cartridge? I know my 404 Czech Mauser almost drops ejected loaded cartridges at my feet while empty brass flies off a yard or more. The difference being 400 gr bullet + some powder is significant added weight in the loaded cartridge. 450 Rigby fires a very heavy 500 gr bullet (vs 400 gr 416). But again, if the cartridges still in the stack are not jumping the rails when the gun cycles out a loaded one from the chamber, why would the final one need help from jumping follower?

Again, this feature does seem to eliminate or at least significantly inhibit snap-over capability in an emergency situation. Not sure fighting with the follower when trying to close the bolt on a cartridge dropped into the action is a good idea in a dangerous game rifle.

Perplexing.
 
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Ontario Hunter said:
Interesting. But the jumping-the-rails follower is apparently not a feature of 416 Rigby which has same OAL as 450 and in fact 416 has a wider shoulder (0.54" vs 0.492"). Rim diameter is same for both. I am at a loss to see how the jumping follower would assist with loading the last cartridge. 450 is significantly wider bullet but if the cartridges stuffed below it in the magazine come up okay into chamber, I don't see why the last one should need extra lift from an escaped follower. Perhaps it is to assist with ejecting loaded cartridge? I know my 404 Czech Mauser almost drops ejected loaded cartridges at my feet while empty brass flies off a yard or more. The difference being 400 gr bullet + some powder is significant added weight in the loaded cartridge. 450 Rigby fires a very heavy 500 gr bullet (vs 400 gr 416). But again, if the cartridges still in the stack are not jumping the rails when the gun cycles out a loaded one from the chamber, why would the final one need help from jumping follower?

Again, this feature does seem to eliminate or at least significantly inhibit snap-over capability in an emergency situation. Not sure fighting with the follower when trying to close the bolt on a cartridge dropped into the action is a good idea in a dangerous game rifle.

Perplexing.
Click to expand...
Perhaps those with a Rigby 450 can chime in further, but I don't think it is "fighting the follower" per se, or that this would create an issue with single loading.

The bolt easily pushes the follower--even if tipped up--out of the way when empty when the magazine is empty. If the action is closed in a non-hurried fashion, there does not appear to be any issue whatsoever. If the bolt is violently slammed shut hard, it can scratch, or "bite," the follower a bit where the bolt hits the follower tipping up. But the bolt still closes.

From the videos I've seen, I don't think that this follower quirk would cause any issues with single loading--either dropping one into the chamber (in an emergency) or putting one into the magazine. The follower depresses easily enough, when pushed down, that it doesn't seem like it would cause a problem when trying to single load; just putting the round in the magazine would immediately depress the follower, as normal.
 
The Mauser action is designed to be worked aggressively as it was built for war. It is not an action to be casually opened to avoid ejecting brass on the range. We have 3 Rigby's and I crank the bolts as if my life depends on it ejecting and clearing the fired brass, grabbing a new round and chambering it for follow up shots. Just like it was designed. A quick YouTube search of Africa hunting will show people jam controlled feed rifles all the time by "casually" working the bolt.

As far as the bolt stopping when empty, if it was designed that way (and many Mausers are/were) who cares? Proper training makes that a non-issue.

Safe shooting
 
Hornedfrogbbq said:
Just to be clear, this isn't a safety feature. The bolt doesn't "lock" open on the follower so you know you are empty. This is the bolt contacting the follower about 3/4 of an in inch and then gouging the follower with the bottom of the bolt. This takes metal off and creates a burr.
Click to expand...
sounds like what Ontario hunter pointed out that they use a follower meant for a 416 and it sticks up towards the throat and creates a bind as the bolt moves forward ,,am I correct ?? I wonder if any of the 450,s built on the mayfair actions do this ,,does holland make a 450 it would be nice to know what action they use and if they are having the same issue
 
Good Lord. Given that we’re fortunate enough to have Rigby as a sponsor here, and they have joined this thread, can we just address the question to them and listen to their answers, vs all the speculation by shade tree gunsmiths? Or just buy snaps caps?
 
318AE said:
Good Lord. Given that we’re fortunate enough to have Rigby as a sponsor here, and they have joined this thread, can we just address the question to them and listen to their answers, vs all the speculation by shade tree gunsmiths? Or just buy snaps caps?
Click to expand...

With all respect I think calling folks who are either trying to help a guy or questioning what looks like an odd situation shade tree gunsmiths is a bit harsh. Mausers are designed to work a certain way, and if it looks out of spec, well, it looks out of spec. It's not hard to find pics of Mauser 450 Rigbys that do not have a protruding follower (see below), so I think it's a rational question to ask what's going on. After all, there is so much chatter on this forum about utter reliability, knowing your rifle, dangerous game, controlled round feed, practice practice practice etc., that it seems very out of place not to question the issue - even if the answer comes from Rigby - whose contributions are appreciated. Then there is the dollar factor.

I happened to chat with D'Arcy Echols this afternoon and asked him if he had ever seen or heard of this with the 450 (including the one he made) or bigger cartridges. His answer was a flat - no. In fact he sent me a video of a 505 he built on a Hartmann and Weiss Magnum Mauser and the bolt doesn't even contact the follower when it's empty - much less the follower protrude through the rails. Happy to share if anyone is interested.

All that to say these forums are for exactly what is happening here, and at the end of the day, maybe we'll all get the answers we want.




B0736AD7-6821-4766-AA94-32C8DEAEB409.jpeg



Screenshot 2026-06-30 at 19.38.32.png
 
baxterb said:
With all respect I think calling folks who are either trying to help a guy or questioning what looks like an odd situation shade tree gunsmiths is a bit harsh. Mausers are designed to work a certain way, and if it looks out of spec, well, it looks out of spec. It's not hard to find pics of Mauser 450 Rigbys that do not have a protruding follower (see below), so I think it's a rational question to ask what's going on. After all, there is so much chatter on this forum about utter reliability, knowing your rifle, dangerous game, controlled round feed, practice practice practice etc., that it seems very out of place not to question the issue - even if the answer comes from Rigby - whose contributions are appreciated. Then there is the dollar factor.

I happened to chat with D'Arcy Echols this afternoon and asked him if he had ever seen or heard of this with the 450 (including the one he made) or bigger cartridges. His answer was a flat - no. In fact he sent me a video of a 505 he built on a Hartmann and Weiss Magnum Mauser and the bolt doesn't even contact the follower when it's empty - much less the follower protrude through the rails. Happy to share if anyone is interested.

All that to say these forums are for exactly what is happening here, and at the end of the day, maybe we'll all get the answers we want.




View attachment 774084


View attachment 774083
Click to expand...
Gosh I love the look of that second rifle.
 
This subject got me wondering as I have 2 commercial model pre-war mausers. I took them both out of the gun cabinet to check them, one each in 7x57 and 8x57. Neither one stoped the bolt from closing on an empty chamber? Also checked my CZ 550 FS it also closed on an empty chamber? Interesting discussion for sure.
 
One somewhat goofy difference between 98 Mauser and its patent infringing clone 1903 Springfield is the latter's bolt release has a position three flipped all the way down that stopped the bolt short of the end of the follower. This allowed the rifle to be cycled with an empty magazine without hitting the abrupt end of follower which purposely blocked the bolt open when magazine was empty. Position three also does not come back far enough to pick up cartridge in the magazine. As far as I can tell this feature allowed the gun to be inspected in formation without the need to fumble with depressing the follower to reclose the bolt. For civilian use it's pretty much dysfunctional, especially for sporterized hunting rifles which typically have the end of the follower beveled to allow closing the bolt in any event, magazine full or empty. Most hunting rifle 1903 stocks don't even allow the lever to be turned down to position three ... except Boyds who for whatever misguided reason insist on carving out the unsightly notch for it. Here's my rifle with bolt release lever in military position 1 "ON" ready to cycle with a loaded magazine. No notch in stock for all the way down position 3 "OFF".
PXL_20260527_222841146.jpg

A gunsmith once told me sniper Springfield rifles had followers with beveled ends so snipers could utilize snap over dropping a cartridge in the chamber when needed. Apparently sniper scopes invalidated stripper clip so those rifles had to be loaded by hand. Unlike the soldiers in the trenches, snipers were not typically involved in massive rapid fire and reload situations so stripper clip capability was not as important anyway. I can understand why snipers would want an option to quickly get something in the chamber if the gun was empty. Springfield sniper rifles had special barrels with three lands (standard issue had four lands and then only two lands towards the latter half of WWII to speed production). My buddy once had a special Camp Perry Springfield and if I recall correctly it also had a three land barrel. I would be curious to know if the sniper Springfields and Camp Perry models had followers beveled at manufacture.
 
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It's pretty normal for these Rigby Big Game rifles especially the .450 version.

It's a classic Mauser military style feature: the follower pops up to block the bolt from fully closing on an empty mag. It acts as a tactile reminder you're out of ammo handy for dangerous game under stress. Many traditional Mausers do this; you just push the follower down lightly to rack it for dry practice.

Owners report it varies by caliber more common on .450 than .416/.404, and it's by design from Rigby not a defect. Some love the safety aspect, others find it annoying for dry firing drills and bevel the follower to fix it. If rapid empty cycling is important to you like on a Dakota or Model 70, test one in person or ask Rigby directly. For a PH dangerous game gun, it's not a dealbreaker for most.
 
Here is an interesting bit of info re: the reliability issue from my friend and lucky owner of that Echols 450 Rigby. The text describes the events in the linked video below.

__

In addition to the normal range work, I have done a fair amount of practice with the rifle to get familiar with its personality. In March of 2024 I visited Tim Fallon’s FTW Ranch in Barksdale TX for a few days to participate in their excellent SAAM Safari Course. The rifle performed great, shooting and handling exactly as I had hoped. The stock fit proved to be just about perfect. Mounting the gun to my shoulder, no head position adjustments are necessary to center the white front bead in the ghost ring. At 65 years old I wear progressive lens glasses while shooting the ghost ring set up, so I only need to focus on the front bead and the target. No mid sight v-notch to worry about. Speaking of the front bead, I set the gun up to shoot to the center of the bead at 75 yards. Some folks like a 6 o’clock hold. Not me. I want to put the bead right where I want the bullet to land. The gun swings great on movers. I’m not even aware of the ghost ring and I love the open-space awareness (that is, the opposite of looking through a scope) when engaging the target.

Recoil with my handloads, though stout is manageable. The gun is controllable too. For shooting big bores off African style shooting sticks, I like to wear a glove on my support hand and then place my support hand in the crotch of the shooting sticks with a firm grip on the fore end. I imagine this approach isn’t for everyone, but it works great for me. It gives me much better control of the gun during recoil allowing a much better follow through, efficient bolt operation and quick target re-acquisition. During alpha testing (engineering development term) of the M98 I had problems holding on to the pistol grip during recoil. D’Arcy, when he wasn’t taking pictures of this, assured me the problem would go away once the stock was checkered. He was right. By the end of the Safari Prep course (really a beta test of sorts), my confidence with the gun is sky high. I’m ready for the field. However, one little issue did crop up during the course and I’m glad it did.

Tim recommends Safari Prep students bring some low power loads to save their shoulders from the cumulative effects of recoil over the three-day course. I didn’t have time to develop practice ammo, so I brought 50 rounds of full power loads to the course. The recoil took its toll, after 2 days of shooting about 45 rounds through 450 Rigby my left shoulder was smooth wore out. I simply couldn’t take it anymore. However, I’m glad I used all full power loads during the course. Here’s why.

You do a lot of field simulation drills at the SAAM Safari course. Over the span of a day and half I seldom emptied the entire magazine over the courses of fire. To get ready for the next drill I’d simply top off with more cartridges from my belt and carry on. All good. No problems, that is until the charging elephant simulation.

The drill is to shoot two stationary life size elephant targets, then engage a third, but charging bull. It’s a 3 shot drill, so I only loaded 3 rounds in the rifle. First two shots are good, but the third round would not chamber. With the charging bull rapidly approaching I had to eject the problem round, single load the rifle and kill the cardboard ele before being run over. While my “PH” is screaming “Oh no, you’re gonna die! Ahhh!” in my ear, the chief instructor is filming the whole event on his iPhone. Here it is with Tim’s permission:


Obviously, I would have been toast in a real charge. So, what happened? Was there a problem with my ammo? Or was there a problem the rifle?

I knew, or thought, the ammo was good. I double check everything, even three times before going on a field trip – training, and especially hunting. At my loading bench I had noticed some finished rounds would bind a bit if ejected after being chambered. I’ll test/verify each round chambers and ejects (firing pin removed) before going on a hunt. With this rifle I had noticed if there was sufficient bullet run out extraction became difficult. Smudge marks on the bullet showed exactly what was going on. I made some changes in my reloading process to correct this little problem and sorted all the ammo before the class. I knew this wasn’t it. Something else was going on.

Close inspection of the guilty round showed a slight bulge in the case neck just below the crimp. Turns out, the round had been in the bottom of the magazine box through several exercises. As a result of the recoil the bullet slammed into the front of the magazine box and compressed the bullet into the crimped neck enough to bulge the neck to prevent chambering.

This problem is nothing new with magazine fed big bore rifles. I don’t think there is a solution, other than to be careful to inspect all, not just your newly loaded, of your ammo before going on a hunt to make sure it chambers. I did test to make sure the final (first down, last out) round in a freshly charged full magazine would chamber and fire properly when I got home. Everything worked fine. If I’m careful to inspect the cartridges in the magazine box I won’t have any problems. My guess is that the problem round at FTW had been in the bottom of the magazine for several shooting sessions. Lesson learned. Glad I brought and used full power loads in the class.

This little episode does bring up a few important “features/liabilities” of the M98 action, and control round feed actions in general. First, I’ve always valued a CRF action’s ability to reliably eject a loaded round as an even bigger asset than the famed claw extractor. Of course this is a highly debatable topic. Nevertheless, I’m of the opinion the importance of blade ejectors (“blade”, not “mechanical” – the misnomer to differentiate them from spring ejectors, which are also “mechanical” is a personal pet peeve of mine) is too often overlooked. As the video shows, even though the deformed round wasn’t fully chambered it was ejected quickly. Good! Second, the single loaded round chambered into the action without inserting cartridge into the magazine box. Very Good!! I believe some, maybe many, M98 actions require cartridges be fed from the magazine box. I much prefer a rifle action to be able to do both. Reliably, 100% of the time. I wouldn’t have had time for the third shot in the video if D’Arcy’s M98 had to be fed from the magazine box. High marks to the Echols Classic M98 450 Rigby in this simulated field test.
 
Last edited:
baxterb said:
Here is an interesting bit of info re: the reliability issue from my friend and lucky owner of that Echols 450 Rigby. The text describes the events in the linked video below.

__

In addition to the normal range work, I have done a fair amount of practice with the rifle to get familiar with its personality. In March of 2024 I visited Tim Fallon’s FTW Ranch in Barksdale TX for a few days to participate in their excellent SAAM Safari Course. The rifle performed great, shooting and handling exactly as I had hoped. The stock fit proved to be just about perfect. Mounting the gun to my shoulder, no head position adjustments are necessary to center the white front bead in the ghost ring. At 65 years old I wear progressive lens glasses while shooting the ghost ring set up, so I only need to focus on the front bead and the target. No mid sight v-notch to worry about. Speaking of the front bead, I set the gun up to shoot to the center of the bead at 75 yards. Some folks like a 6 o’clock hold. Not me. I want to put the bead right where I want the bullet to land. The gun swings great on movers. I’m not even aware of the ghost ring and I love the open-space awareness (that is, the opposite of looking through a scope) when engaging the target.

Recoil with my handloads, though stout is manageable. The gun is controllable too. For shooting big bores off African style shooting sticks, I like to wear a glove on my support hand and then place my support hand in the crotch of the shooting sticks with a firm grip on the fore end. I imagine this approach isn’t for everyone, but it works great for me. It gives me much better control of the gun during recoil allowing a much better follow through, efficient bolt operation and quick target re-acquisition. During alpha testing (engineering development term) of the M98 I had problems holding on to the pistol grip during recoil. D’Arcy, when he wasn’t taking pictures of this, assured me the problem would go away once the stock was checkered. He was right. By the end of the Safari Prep course (really a beta test of sorts), my confidence with the gun is sky high. I’m ready for the field. However, one little issue did crop up during the course and I’m glad it did.

Tim recommends Safari Prep students bring some low power loads to save their shoulders from the cumulative effects of recoil over the three-day course. I didn’t have time to develop practice ammo, so I brought 50 rounds of full power loads to the course. The recoil took its toll, after 2 days of shooting about 45 rounds through 450 Rigby my left shoulder was smooth wore out. I simply couldn’t take it anymore. However, I’m glad I used all full power loads during the course. Here’s why.

You do a lot of field simulation drills at the SAAM Safari course. Over the span of a day and half I seldom emptied the entire magazine over the courses of fire. To get ready for the next drill I’d simply top off with more cartridges from my belt and carry on. All good. No problems, that is until the charging elephant simulation.

The drill is to shoot two stationary life size elephant targets, then engage a third, but charging bull. It’s a 3 shot drill, so I only loaded 3 rounds in the rifle. First two shots are good, but the third round would not chamber. With the charging bull rapidly approaching I had to eject the problem round, single load the rifle and kill the cardboard ele before being run over. While my “PH” is screaming “Oh no, you’re gonna die! Ahhh!” in my ear, the chief instructor is filming the whole event on his iPhone. Here it is with Tim’s permission:


Obviously, I would have been toast in a real charge. So, what happened? Was there a problem with my ammo? Or was there a problem the rifle?

I knew, or thought, the ammo was good. I double check everything, even three times before going on a field trip – training, and especially hunting. At my loading bench I had noticed some finished rounds would bind a bit if ejected after being chambered. I’ll test/verify each round chambers and ejects (firing pin removed) before going on a hunt. With this rifle I had noticed if there was sufficient bullet run out extraction became difficult. Smudge marks on the bullet showed exactly what was going on. I made some changes in my reloading process to correct this little problem and sorted all the ammo before the class. I knew this wasn’t it. Something else was going on.

Close inspection of the guilty round showed a slight bulge in the case neck just below the crimp. Turns out, the round had been in the bottom of the magazine box through several exercises. As a result of the recoil the bullet slammed into the front of the magazine box and compressed the bullet into the crimped neck enough to bulge the neck to prevent chambering.

This problem is nothing new with magazine fed big bore rifles. I don’t think there is a solution, other than to be careful to inspect all, not just your newly loaded, of your ammo before going on a hunt to make sure it chambers. I did test to make sure the final (first down, last out) round in a freshly charged full magazine would chamber and fire properly when I got home. Everything worked fine. If I’m careful to inspect the cartridges in the magazine box I won’t have any problems. My guess is that the problem round at FTW had been in the bottom of the magazine for several shooting sessions. Lesson learned. Glad I brought and used full power loads in the class.

This little episode does bring up a few important “features/liabilities” of the M98 action, and control round feed actions in general. First, I’ve always valued a CRF action’s ability to reliably eject a loaded round as an even bigger asset than the famed claw extractor. Of course this is a highly debatable topic. Nevertheless, I’m of the opinion the importance of blade ejectors (“blade”, not “mechanical” – the misnomer to differentiate them from spring ejectors, which are also “mechanical” is a personal pet peeve of mine) is too often overlooked. As the video shows, even though the deformed round wasn’t fully chambered it was ejected quickly. Good! Second, the single loaded round chambered into the action without inserting cartridge into the magazine box. Very Good!! I believe some, maybe many, M98 actions require cartridges be fed from the magazine box. I much prefer a rifle action to be able to do both. Reliably, 100% of the time. I wouldn’t have had time for the third shot in the video if D’Arcy’s M98 had to be fed from the magazine box. High marks to the Echols Classic M98 450 Rigby in this simulated field test.
Click to expand...
Your friend described snap-over capability which is common with 98 Mauser design rifles. I agree with Duane Wiebe, a dangerous game rifle that doesn't snap-over isn't a dangerous game rifle.
 
farmer_john said:
I love how the rigby rep said heres how it works and people are going on like he nevsr said anything lol
Click to expand...
He said it works but I didn't see any explanation how it works. Others have custom Mauser guns of this caliber or larger and they work fine without tipped follower and gouging/rubbing bolt.
 
Last edited:
farmer_john said:
I love how the rigby rep said heres how it works and people are going on like he nevsr said anything lol
Click to expand...
My favorite part is all the people giving very specific diagnoses based on one not very clear picture. They haven’t seen the gun. And a lot of questions about why Rigby would make it that way when we know the Cabelas rep has stated a customer and different rep did something to create a burr. We don’t know what they did or how badly they mishandled it or how bad the burr might be. But a lot of definitive pronouncements by people who haven’t seen it.
 
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