22 or 6.5 Creedmore for Moose and Elk?

Field28 said:
A volunteer fireman that scuba dives, drives a jeep and shoots a 6.5 creedmore walks into a bar...

What does he talk about first?
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What year of Jeep?
 
JimP said:
The problem with the smaller calibers such as the 6.5 and the others that you listed can also leade to wounded lost elk very easily.

I had a coworker who knew absolutely nothing about hunting and he had a 14 year old boy who wanted to go elk hunting. So off they went to the local sporting goods dealer to find a rifle.

Once there and after telling the salesman what they wanted a rifle for he proceeded to sell them a . 243 bolt action.

Now I have no doubt that a 243 will kill a elk, but in the hands of that 14 year old I would highly doubt it, but he may wound a few.
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You make a good point, small calibers on big game are a scalpel not a hammer. The problem that I have run into repeatedly is guys using large calibers to compensate for piss poor shooting. I see it time and again where guys go buy a 300wm or similar because thats what all the old heads say kill elk. They buy 2 boxes of the cheapest junk ammo they can find and use a box of that to get into a dinner plate sized group at 100 yards because they flinch so violently. They they call that perfect and say that I shoot a big enough gun to make up for it and call themselves lethal at 500 yards. If that same guy had gone with a 6.5cm, prc, or 270 he would be significantly more lethal and comfortable.

I am absolutely not an advocate for shooting tiny calibers on big critters though it may sound like I am. What I am an advocate for is shooting a cartridge that you can PROPERLY handle and the simple fact is that most folks can not handle more than a 30-06 out the gate. Yes it can be learned but it takes time, money, and effort and those are 3 things many are not willing to invest. I would much rather see a guy packing a small cartridge capable of stacking rounds on top of each other rather than a gun he isn't willing to admit he hates or is scared shitless to shoot.
 
I see a future where any cartridge with more recoil than a 22LR will be too much for hunters. The art of recoil management is going the way of the manual transmissions and basic car maintenance.
 
matt85 said:
I see a future where any cartridge with more recoil than a 22LR will be too much for hunters. The art of recoil management is going the way of the manual transmissions and basic car maintenance.
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You know, I still remember the day that my Dad bought me my first shotgun. I was eight years old.

We went to a great old shop. My Dad told the guy behind the counter that he was buying me a shotgun and asked, should I get him a 410 or 28.

The typical gunstore old fella with a 1911 on his hip said, "410 will make that boy a pussy later when it comes to recoil!"

He then handed my Dad a H&R single shot 20, kicked like a mule!

To this day I dont flinch!
 
Safari Dave said:
My son is a believer in the RS (website) line of thinking about a tiny cartridge with low recoil and a bullet with the proper construction. This caused him the loss of a large black bear that he shot twice at close range with a 6.5 Grendel.
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And this is my biggest problem with the entire argument posited by that particular group of people on that particular website- poor results like that will never make it onto their all-authoritative data set. They will be ignored. The small caliber people have become dogmatic about the subject, the data are skewed and therefore unreliable, and we have no idea how much wounding and loss of big game is happening due to their (bad?) influence.

On the other hand, we have 120 years of very reliable data on what a 30-06 does to an elk.

So do you choose to trust the bros on the internet, and go forth with your 22 caliber and hope they are trustworthy? Or do you just learn how to shoot a rifle with the recoil?

I’ve been doing the latter my whole life and I’ve never lost a deer or elk.
 
I try to stay out of posts like this, but a 22 will kill anything if placed properly. The animals we hunt deserve better. A quick and humane dispatch. I own a 6.5 and limit it to deer as the top end. Elk and moose are obviously really big animals. They deserve a cartridge to dispatch them quickly. To each their own obviously. Be proficient in your caliber choice. You owe to the animal to be the marksman to dispatch quickly or you shouldn’t be hunting.
 
Field28 said:
You know, I still remember the day that my Dad bought me my first shotgun. I was eight years old.

We went to a great old shop. My Dad told the guy behind the counter that he was buying me a shotgun and asked, should I get him a 410 or 28.

The typical gunstore old fella with a 1911 on his hip said, "410 will make that boy a pussy later when it comes to recoil!"

He then handed my Dad a H&R single shot 20, kicked like a mule!

To this day I dont flinch!
Click to expand...
My first rifle was an old surplus Soviet M91/30. Bought it for $50 back when you could pick them out of a barrel at your local sporting goods store. The stout recoil of the 7.62x54r and the steel butt plate forced me to learn how to shoot a rifle without getting bruised or flinching. Those were good days... A rifle for $50 and 20rnd packs of surplus ammunition for $2 each.
 
Another reason that I'm in the big-gun camp is the very limited time we might have to anchor an animal on a hunt.

Locally, I have 4 months to take a white-tail, so I can wait for the perfect broadside shot.


If I'm hunting out west, I may only have a week to take an elk or moose. I may only get one opportunity and a perfect broadside may not present itself. So I need to be able to hit at less than a perfect angle and drive a bullet deeply.

I think the last time I hunted elk in New Mexico, the season was only 5 days in the unit for which I was drawn.
 
Only a liptard moron would try it. That said I've shot lots of beef cattle with a 22LR. But a head shot
right in the brain at point blank in a processing shout is a whole other thing.
 
Wyit76 said:
You make a good point, small calibers on big game are a scalpel not a hammer. The problem that I have run into repeatedly is guys using large calibers to compensate for piss poor shooting. I see it time and again where guys go buy a 300wm or similar because thats what all the old heads say kill elk. They buy 2 boxes of the cheapest junk ammo they can find and use a box of that to get into a dinner plate sized group at 100 yards because they flinch so violently. They they call that perfect and say that I shoot a big enough gun to make up for it and call themselves lethal at 500 yards. If that same guy had gone with a 6.5cm, prc, or 270 he would be significantly more lethal and comfortable.

I am absolutely not an advocate for shooting tiny calibers on big critters though it may sound like I am. What I am an advocate for is shooting a cartridge that you can PROPERLY handle and the simple fact is that most folks can not handle more than a 30-06 out the gate. Yes it can be learned but it takes time, money, and effort and those are 3 things many are not willing to invest. I would much rather see a guy packing a small cartridge capable of stacking rounds on top of each other rather than a gun he isn't willing to admit he hates or is scared shitless to shoot.
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I think that issue is not tied to any caliber.
I think the vast majority of hunters are not "good" shots.
Wyit76 said:
I'd like to pose a question to those saying that the 6.5cm is adamantly not an elk capable cartridge. Would you be willing to hunt elk with a 7-08 instead of a 6.5cm?
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I would not. Not saying it cant be one. Just i think theres a few things happening that make it not a good one.
First reason. Is slot of people think/act its a lazer beam and they can buy one and be carlos hathcock taking shots at distsances they shouldnt for the caliber. And since its the newest greatest thing yada yada yads

Second one is the reoutation for low recoil. This applies to the 243.

Its not that the rounds bad but because its a low recoiling round alot of inexperienced shooters gravitate towards it. Leading to alot of bad shots on game.

Recoil sensitive people mostly havent shot enough and prolly have bad habbits regardless of caliber.


The round is capable but due to the smaller diameter your margine for error is reduced.

Also smaller bullets =smaller blood trail if its a bad shot
 
Ah, the 6.5 Needsmore. Built one for the wife, she also built an AR-10 in the same caliber. She shot a Texas hog with the AR-10. Good shot, definitely in the lungs as it was leaving bits and pieces. Tracked it about 30 yards where it was waiting to die. Took too long, so I shot it in the heart with a 500 S&W. It got up and charged me. I will admit in this case, that hog tanked a 500 S&W to the heart at 10 yards, so it's not entirely the round's fault.

She also shot an Axis deer at 227 yards. Heard the smack, deer ran off. The guide and I spent 8 hours trying to find it. At about 2 in the morning we found it with the rest of the herd. After we put a proper bullet in it, found that the 143gr bullet from hers hit the shoulder bone, deflected, and sort of went aft just under the skin. The lower guts were kind of pulped but it was dying slowly. If anything I was more glad that we put the deer out of any pain it was in.

Two animals in a row with a 6.5....definitely not impressed with the knockdown power. Admittedly, Axis is a bit more heavily built than a whitetail, but not as big as an elk. Wouldn't use it.

It's a nice soft-shooting and accurate round, though. The Mrs. can hit a target at 1000 yards with it, but she's also shooting my 300 PRC at 700.
 
Just an observation from an old Fudd. In my 55 years of shooting at gun ranges I have noticed a deterioration in proper mounting and holding the rifles as well as trigger and breath control discipline. Along with or possibly because of, an increase in recoil aversion. Spray and pray is not conducive to kill shots. Perhaps it would help if ranges required members to shoot with a shooting coach ( if you will) on their first visit.
 
MS 9x56 said:
Just an observation from an old Fudd. In my 55 years of shooting at gun ranges I have noticed a deterioration in proper mounting and holding the rifles as well as trigger and breath control discipline. Along with or possibly because of, an increase in recoil aversion. Spray and pray is not conducive to kill shots. Perhaps it would help if ranges required members to shoot with a shooting coach ( if you will) on their first visit.
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TBH, I have brakes or suppressors on just about everything I shoot, except for my lever guns. My wife is just too small to handle the full glory of a 300 PRC without assistance and I'm not 18 anymore. Why deal with full recoil if you don't have to?

Still no excuse for not mounting the gun correctly, but that's a different story.
 
I will not be taking a 6.5 CR out to shoot elk. I own several .338WM and have shot many large red stags in Scotland, some at good ranges over a period of at least 25 years. I don't think I've missed a shot and I never needed to take a follow up shot on a wounded animal.

I'm sure 6.5 CM kills elk it is just not my first choice for the task.

Animals deserve respect, I believe in going suitably equipped and capable of shooting my rifle. Use enough gun!

I just acquired my first 6.5 CM and plan to use it to shoot smaller deer, Roe, Muntjac and Chinese water deer in the UK, it seemed a good option as it is popular and ammo selection is good. For larger UK deer such as Red and Fallow I will be shooting my .308.
 
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