Politics

Female genital mutilation is a terrible scourge we should be doing everything to eliminate. However it is not a muslim specific problem:

  • Cultural, Not Religious: Many top Muslim religious authorities, including those at Al-Azhar University, have declared that FGM is not a requirement of Islam and have issued fatwas against it.
  • Widespread Across Faiths: FGM is found among Coptic Christians in Egypt, Orthodox Christians in Ethiopia, and Protestants and Catholics in Kenya, Tanzania, and Nigeria.
  • Regional Differences: In some African nations, such as Niger, FGM is more prevalent within Christian communities than among Muslims.
  • Non-Practicing Muslim Regions: FGM is virtually unknown in many major Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, Iran, Algeria, and Morocco, indicating it is not a core religious practice.
And if you don't think Christian dominant cultures have things like grooming gangs, human trafficking, etc you are living in a fantasy world.

But I guess you might need an outsider bogeyman to cope with the reality of human evils.
You are correct that some Eastern European nations that are Christian are known for GG’s and trafficking but you can’t label those people doing the crimes Christian and there is nowhere in the new testament that condones or promotes that behavior even the pope for the Catholics has never wrote done or condoned that. The leader of irans khamenei is there religious head for those radicals and many other’s he literally wrote about kids and that it was ok. That’s the difference.
 
You are quite right.

But the immigration into England was never "unchecked." It was planned by the British government because they had a labour shortage, needed to rebuild their country after WWII, and had created their own obligations by making many muslim areas part of their empire. It was not like these people were coming from countries that had not been subject to British rule. They were, many of them British subjects, subject to the same Crown I was (am). There was very little "kindness" about the British policy as many people of colour and muslims were not at all well treated when they came to England, through programs designed to attract them.

I understand what you are saying, and I am going to try to directly address some subsequent posts as well.

However, I think we are probably looking at different nuances. I agree that pretty much any minority in a different society, be it in Europe, America or anywhere for that matter probably didnt have a good time in the 50s through 80s, 90s. I mean if you look at different sects within Christianity or even European cultures it probably didnt go well to be a minority at some point in time. We cant let historical behaviors compensate for future actions.

I think the last decade or two in the West there has been a exploitation of Western kindness, the pendulum has swung too far, and you touch on it a bit with regards to culture, for example I dont think most people have an issue with food, clothes or religion, I am guessing greater than 90% dont care. However, when someone says the British Flag or American flag is offensive in that country and tell that citizen that they have to take it down, its an issue. When you have a community that tells the police they arent welcome, or another religion, or person that is an issue.

As you said policing is an issue, and that is our issue, but when people want that policing and want some guardrails in place, I dont necessarily think it is hate mongering or racist.
 
Female genital mutilation is a terrible scourge we should be doing everything to eliminate. However it is not a muslim specific problem:

  • Cultural, Not Religious: Many top Muslim religious authorities, including those at Al-Azhar University, have declared that FGM is not a requirement of Islam and have issued fatwas against it.
  • Widespread Across Faiths: FGM is found among Coptic Christians in Egypt, Orthodox Christians in Ethiopia, and Protestants and Catholics in Kenya, Tanzania, and Nigeria.
  • Regional Differences: In some African nations, such as Niger, FGM is more prevalent within Christian communities than among Muslims.
  • Non-Practicing Muslim Regions: FGM is virtually unknown in many major Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, Iran, Algeria, and Morocco, indicating it is not a core religious practice.
And if you don't think Christian dominant cultures have things like grooming gangs, human trafficking, etc you are living in a fantasy world.

But I guess you might need an outsider bogeyman to cope with the reality of human evils.

I believe part of the issue is you are mixing culture and religion, for example you previously said we shouldn't dictate culture and your top bullet was that is culture related not religious.

I would also argue that the grooming gangs, human trafficking you mention are not Christian driven but have been found in a Christian Society, arguable by those that arent practicing Christians. Though I know every religion has had its share of issues.
 
The adoption studies you are talking about are almost always with Hispanic,European and some Asian/pacific island they almost all have a Christian influence.. most central and South Americans are Catholic the farther back you go the more true that is. Most Eastern European cultures which have moved into the west much more over the last 40 years orthodox Christian, most Asians I’ve know in the states parents are catholic or Protestant I’ve never met any who’s parents followed their traditional folk religions.. and I grew up and went to school with a majority Filipino with South Korean and Vietnamese mixed in.
If you go back to the early 1900’s those immigrants almost exclusively European had Christian ideology except for maybe the Jewish influx in the 1890’s and after the great wars. Still all based in a similar theological belief system.

I don’t see where Islamic radicals will ever be willing to assimilate. Muslims sure. I’ve met many and never had an issue with any of them.. radicals would argue that those Muslims I’ve meet and am friends with aren’t true muslims so there’s that little hiccup. Also if you look up the data on Islam it says 1-5% are radical, 5-10% are sympathizers to those groups overall and 15-20% are sympathetic or supportive in conflict nations(Iraq,pak,Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia and such. If it’s 2 billion people we are talking about 20-100million that wish the worlds destruction or subjugation, 100-200mil that support their goals. And 1/5 of conflict zone population which also happen to be the people most likely to flee and move into the western nations since the gulf nations wisely will not let them in.
Now you are correct by percentage it is a majority of the overall people that are peaceful but the minority still makes up numbers bigger then any European nations population and how do you distinguish them apart.
Also while you are correct that evil acts are done by all groups and races. Only one group condones messing with kids and practice killing those they disagree with.
All of the above is correct with one exception. In the west we should stop calling them Radicals, and understand that Fundamentalist is a more accurate term.
 

He can take Iran in one night... Yeah right.. Is there no end to the bullshit coming out of his mouth..??

Or is he going nuclear.. or what..?

Elect a clown...expect a circus..
 
The adoption studies you are talking about are almost always with Hispanic,European and some Asian/pacific island they almost all have a Christian influence.. most central and South Americans are Catholic the farther back you go the more true that is. Most Eastern European cultures which have moved into the west much more over the last 40 years orthodox Christian, most Asians I’ve know in the states parents are catholic or Protestant I’ve never met any who’s parents followed their traditional folk religions.. and I grew up and went to school with a majority Filipino with South Korean and Vietnamese mixed in.
If you go back to the early 1900’s those immigrants almost exclusively European had Christian ideology except for maybe the Jewish influx in the 1890’s and after the great wars. Still all based in a similar theological belief system.

I don’t see where Islamic radicals will ever be willing to assimilate. Muslims sure. I’ve met many and never had an issue with any of them.. radicals would argue that those Muslims I’ve meet and am friends with aren’t true muslims so there’s that little hiccup. Also if you look up the data on Islam it says 1-5% are radical, 5-10% are sympathizers to those groups overall and 15-20% are sympathetic or supportive in conflict nations(Iraq,pak,Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia and such. If it’s 2 billion people we are talking about 20-100million that wish the worlds destruction or subjugation, 100-200mil that support their goals. And 1/5 of conflict zone population which also happen to be the people most likely to flee and move into the western nations since the gulf nations wisely will not let them in.
Now you are correct by percentage it is a majority of the overall people that are peaceful but the minority still makes up numbers bigger then any European nations population and how do you distinguish them apart.
Also while you are correct that evil acts are done by all groups and races. Only one group condones messing with kids and practice killing those they disagree with.
It's a long conversation about where the studies take us, but there are plenty of studies about how well (or not) muslims are being integrated in various counties. I can say, somewhat pridefully, that so far Canada is doing a very good job of integrating muslim immigrants and their investment and adoption of democratic values here is doing way better than in western europe, especially France.

One of the key reasons for this appears to be that we don't persecute or "ghettoize" muslims like many other countries do. This results in good integration in the educational system and then higher numbers of female participation in the work force. This helps with household incomes and the women valuing commercial goods which is shown to put brakes on radicalism. There are also some good studies that suggest that when immigrant children are encouraged to share their traditions in schools with other students, and not hide them, they are more likely to feel accepted and are less vulnerable to become radicalized.

Having radical Islamists inside our borders is a very serious concern. One of the techniques to defeating that threat is to poison the sea they swim in, by making sure the peaceful majority are respected and welcomed so they will work with LE and not have to turn to Islamists for leadership.

I'm not sold on the argument that Islam "condones messing with kids". And plenty of groups kill those they disagree with.
 
You are correct that some Eastern European nations that are Christian are known for GG’s and trafficking but you can’t label those people doing the crimes Christian and there is nowhere in the new testament that condones or promotes that behavior even the pope for the Catholics has never wrote done or condoned that. The leader of irans khamenei is there religious head for those radicals and many other’s he literally wrote about kids and that it was ok. That’s the difference.
Interesting play to ignore the Old Testament.

I am not aware of any of the Ayatollah's writings on sex with young people. Can you shoot me a source so I can see what they said?

I was aware Iran is one the places in the world where the most sex reassignment surgeries are done, oddly enough.
 

He can take Iran in one night... Yeah right.. Is there no end to the bullshit coming out of his mouth..??

Or is he going nuclear.. or what..?

Elect a clown...expect a circus..
aoiwoo.jpg
 
Interesting play to ignore the Old Testament.

I am not aware of any of the Ayatollah's writings on sex with young people. Can you shoot me a source so I can see what they said?

I was aware Iran is one the places in the world where the most sex reassignment surgeries are done, oddly enough.

"Most" is a bit of a stretch... and.. you also have to speak to Iranian law on sex reassignment to put things into context..

Its estimated between 1000 - 4000 sex reassignment surgeries happen in Iran each year (no one knows the exact number.. Iran doesnt release them.. their "official" counts from different government agencies are typically around 1000.. external organizations estimate they MAY be as much as 4000)..

The Iran Legal Medicine Organization actually only reports about 270 occuring each year..

The US alone conducts +/- 13,000 sex reassignment surgeries annually and has done so since 2010..

Thailand and India are known to conduct "thousands" SR surgeries annually.. some western european counteries conduct "thousands" annually..


Something key to note here is... Homosexuality in Iran is a criminal offense...

Transgenderism on the other hand is seen as a medical disorder..

Many homosexuals are coerced into reassignment surgery in Iran because if they do not undergo the surgery and assume the other gender they will be criminal prosecuted for being gay... combine that with the fact that there are no hate crime statutes in Iran that protect gay people, and culturally gays face severe discrimination, harassment, and violence.. so yes.. a lot of gays in Iran choose to go through sex reassignment surgeries..

Also key to note.. In Iran the process to obtain approval for sex reassignment surgery is incredibly bureaucratic and invasive.. the courts must approve the procedure after forensic medical authorities recommend it.. they require parental consent, even if the patient is an adult.. you are required to be a virgin, and are medically tested to prove virginity.. there is a series of psychological tests and evaluations that get conducted.. etc.etc.. etc..
 
I assume the “race to the bottom” you refer to is the growing wealth gap? If so, it sounds like your view of it is based on a false assumption or narrative. The rich are getting richer but so is literally everyone else.

Workers rights have pretty much been hashed out and enshrined in law. In this litigious age the there is recourse for impropriety
 
Interesting play to ignore the Old Testament.

I am not aware of any of the Ayatollah's writings on sex with young people. Can you shoot me a source so I can see what they said?

I was aware Iran is one the places in the world where the most sex reassignment surgeries are done, oddly enough.
On the Old Testament if you’re wondering why it’s because Jesus came and fulfilled the law and made a new covenant. He condemned the Pharisee and sadducees in the gospels especially the books Mark and Luke.
 
Interesting play to ignore the Old Testament.

I am not aware of any of the Ayatollah's writings on sex with young people. Can you shoot me a source so I can see what they said?

I was aware Iran is one the places in the world where the most sex reassignment surgeries are done, oddly enough.

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He can take Iran in one night... Yeah right.. Is there no end to the bullshit coming out of his mouth..??

Or is he going nuclear.. or what..?

Elect a clown...expect a circus..
You, and the little gaggle of other anti Trump clowns on this forum will really lose your shit tomorrow when hell is unleashed on the Iranian infrastructure.
 
"Most" is a bit of a stretch... and.. you also have to speak to Iranian law on sex reassignment to put things into context..

Its estimated between 1000 - 4000 sex reassignment surgeries happen in Iran each year (no one knows the exact number.. Iran doesnt release them.. their "official" counts from different government agencies are typically around 1000.. external organizations estimate they MAY be as much as 4000)..

The Iran Legal Medicine Organization actually only reports about 270 occuring each year..

The US alone conducts +/- 13,000 sex reassignment surgeries annually and has done so since 2010..

Thailand and India are known to conduct "thousands" SR surgeries annually.. some western european counteries conduct "thousands" annually..


Something key to note here is... Homosexuality in Iran is a criminal offense...

Transgenderism on the other hand is seen as a medical disorder..

Many homosexuals are coerced into reassignment surgery in Iran because if they do not undergo the surgery and assume the other gender they will be criminal prosecuted for being gay... combine that with the fact that there are no hate crime statutes in Iran that protect gay people, and culturally gays face severe discrimination, harassment, and violence.. so yes.. a lot of gays in Iran choose to go through sex reassignment surgeries..

Also key to note.. In Iran the process to obtain approval for sex reassignment surgery is incredibly bureaucratic and invasive.. the courts must approve the procedure after forensic medical authorities recommend it.. they require parental consent, even if the patient is an adult.. you are required to be a virgin, and are medically tested to prove virginity.. there is a series of psychological tests and evaluations that get conducted.. etc.etc.. etc..
Last I saw they were ranked third in sex ressignment surgeries after the U.S. and Thailand.

The whole way it came to pass though, demonstrates something about Iran and its government. My understanding is that the Ayatollah authorized it initially because he had a relative who wanted it, not based on any deep theological reasoning. It's just another demonstration of absolutist individual power winning out over theology, even in a theocracy.
 
I have spent most of my professional life being credentialed and in dealing with the Islamic world. I don't begin to claim I have the last word on the subject - but would argue no other Westerner does either.

I have found much to admire in Islamic culture. Cultural generosity can be almost embarrassing. Traditional Islamic arts in their purist form have almost no corollary in the West. You do not have to travel to the Middle East to experience it. Next time you are in Spain spend some time in the Al Hambra in Granada. My Arabic is still good enough to read and appreciate Arabic poetry and particularly Persian poetry translated into Arabic. I have dealt and negotiated with Arab and Pakistani military, political, and business leaders - in Arabic with those who were Arab. I have had Arab neighbors in places like Riyadh and spent extensive time in every Gulf country but Iran and Syria.

So allow me a couple of very general observations made over a lifetime developing them. I hasten to add general observations are just that and often untrue when applied to the specific - but that makes them no less generally true.

Muslims are not just like us. It is naive to believe they could be. Unlike the Irish, or the Chinese, or Africans, Islam itself creates enormous barriers to assimilation in Western Culture.

Our culture, and our understanding of the role of religion in it were shaped by two great interrelated events. The first was the reformation, and the second was the enlightenment. One, once a century and a half of warfare ended, created broad acceptable avenues to observe Christianity. The other threw open the doors of scientific inquiry free from the chains of religious orthodoxy. Finally, both largely destroyed the concept of submission to the will of God to the extent it existed in Christian culture.

As a result, in the contemporary West, one can be a "good Christian" and yet follow a host of acceptable personal mores different from one's neighbors. Those loving ritual have the Catholic and Episcopalian traditions, Calvinists find a home among Presbyterians, those wanting an emotional relationship with God choose evangelical congregations, and many others. All are "good Christians."

Even the Jewish faith experienced a slightly later reform movement. A member of a reform synagogue can enjoy a pulled pork sandwich on the deck with his Methodist neighbor, while his traditional cousin is adhering strictly to the traditions of halakhah and will not anything not prepared in a kosher kitchen. And yet, both can be "good" Jews.

Islam, on the other hand, has never had a reformation or experienced a lasting cultural enlightenment. A Muslim can only be a "good" Muslim by following the traditions of the religion and through submission to the will of God. That does not mean a Muslim can not be secular, but it does mean that it is almost impossible for a secular Muslim to be deemed living as a "good" Muslim by the Imamate.

Some secular Muslims spin the Islamic exception for those whishing to avoid persecution as support for secularism. Traditionally Islam views the world as divided between the "Dar al Harb" and "Dar al Islam." The "World of Islam" is self explanatory. The "World of War or Conflict" is that which Islam is still battling to convert. During that war, Muslims in the area of conflict may adapt local mores to escape persecution. But, that is hardly the basis for a stable secular existence in the West.

Generally, the lower the economic and educational status of a Muslim the more likely he or she is to cling to the stricter traditions of their faith. A sophisticated technocrat from Dubai is very different from a herdsman from Somalia or shopkeeper from Sanaa. It is why refugee enclaves in Detroit, Paris, or Ontario are very different than Italian of Irish neighborhoods the West has experienced with other migrations. I am convinced this lack of a real religious home for the secular Muslim is why so many children of these families become susceptible to radicalization by ISIS and its ilk.

Perhaps those in the West will eventually find a path for assimilation into our culture. I am afraid, however, that will be a long and all to frequently bitter process.
If I understand what you said , its ' "They arent like us ". culturally or religiously.
 
You, and the little gaggle of other anti Trump clowns on this forum will really lose your shit tomorrow when hell is unleashed on the Iranian infrastructure.

Oh really..?? He can bomb away and the strait will still be closed, you fool..

He is panicking with regard to the upcoming elections and raising fuelprices..

All Iran has to do is survive..
 

He can take Iran in one night... Yeah right.. Is there no end to the bullshit coming out of his mouth..??

Or is he going nuclear.. or what..?

Elect a clown...expect a circus..
True enough. But clowns and circuses are for public entertainment. He can be unfaithful and screw porn stars and playmate bunnies. That makes news and it's entertainment. He can talk about drinking disinfectant or inhaling UV light. Maybe nutty but so ridiculous it was entertaining (maybe not so much for the elderly Arizona couple who believed him and actually tried drinking Lysol). He can threaten to take Greenland (for no pratical reason except to actually accomplish something imperial). Or talk about making Canada the 51st state. Both objectives were so transparently stupid it was laughable. Even staunch Republicans in Congress said not to worry. It ain't happening. Just humor him. It will pass. And it did. Then he blows some supposed drug runners out of the water and kidnaps the Venezuela president (who was clearly only hanging on by a thread). Yeah, that was entertaining. But now the the guy has created a huge mess, getting thousands of people killed, pissing off Iranians we hoped to inspire to revolution, and initiating a new round of hyperinflation and stock market collapse. For what reason? And what's the plan? The longer this goes on the more desperate Trump becomes to prove he's not wrong. Which just makes him do and say more "wrong" stuff. He's swinging at everyone. The guy is a genuine psychopath. Now, that doesn't mean he's a serial killer ... not yet anyway. Only 10% of psychopaths resort to violence. Just the stupid ones usually. The rest of them are CEOs, lawyers, military commanders, etc. Also lack empathy but smart enough to know how to manipulate the world to revolve around them. Trump is stupid as a sack of hammers and he has no empathy. The only thing that matters in his world is Donald Trump. Being a stupid psychopath is what makes him crazy and dangerous. Congress needs to do something about Trump. He had a chance to build a Middle Eastern ally. Instead he's making an enemy for the next hundred years. A rich enemy with radical religious foundations. That aren't going away anytime soon. The field of battle will simply become invisible. We've seen it before. Yes, it's not entertainment any more.

Edit: I forgot about him threatening Norway with tariffs because he wasn't nominated for Nobel Peace Prize. What? Would have been laughable except he was serious.
 
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what kind of velocity does the 140 grains list, curious how they would fit in with my current 130 gr, supply of 270s. maybe a pic of the box data listing vel. and drop. Oh and complements on that ammo belt, nice.
 
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