Client Rents Rifle, Client Damages Rifle or Scope, Who Should Be Responsible for Repair?

I was on a hunt once and a client had rented a rifle from the outfitter/PH. Very early in the trip, the client dropped the rifle on a stalk and the scope banged off a rock, denting the scope. From what I understand the client apologized, the PH grumbled a little but said it was alright.

However, later I had overheard some of the PHs annoyed that the client hadn't offered to pay for the scope or at least to send it in for repair.

I have two separate feelings on this.

From an empathetic point of view where I take very good care of my things, I would personally feel bad about damaging someone else's things and would probably want to make it right at least to some degree.

From a logical and business point of view: Two things come to mind. One, this is part of the reason people pay to rent a rifle, to offset the risk of damage to a rifle and scope they have to pay for. Two, I frequently read guides/ph and outfitters say the reason they charge what they charge for rifle and ammo rental is because of the risk of damage and increased upkeep on their heavily used rifles.

What are your thoughts?

When you rent something, whether car, apartment, or rifle, the cost incurred is for its use and “normal wear and tear”.

Dropping a rifle is sort of similar to driving a car through the apartment wall, that isn’t normal wear and tear.

The client needs to repair or replace the item, whichever the owner prefers.

Sabre said:

part of the reason people pay to rent a rifle, to offset the risk of damage to a rifle and scope they have to pay for

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I rent for convenience, not paying for undetermined damages in advance.

That definitely seems like it is out of the realm of normal wear and tear. I think it would be normal to expect to be billed for damage, either accidental or purposefully committed.

I'd be having a conversation with the OWNER and make sure you know what their take on NORMAL wear and tear is.

Is part of the rental fee you are paying in effect "insurance" for possible damage and replacement?

If not, you had better make it clear to the client "borrowing" your firearm.

A clear rule that everybody understands: If you draw blood, you bought it. Recovered or not. You pulled the trigger, you wounded it, you pay for it.

Make the agreement clear and then you don't get angry misunderstandings.

I used rental rifles, and asked about it.
Generally, oufitter covers the costs for damage, at least as per my PH.
It does not mean it is general rule

The way how i see, this is the same as flat tire.
Goes on ph or outfiter. A tool for hunt, provided and maintaimed by ph or outfitter.

If they want coverage, they should raise daily rifle rent costs to cover the risk. Average now is 40, 50 usd per day.
10 day hunt 500.
6 clients cover top class scope just on rifle rental.

On a separate note, if I am the oufitter, i would get a scope that has best warranty, such as vortex, which has or had, any damage type, covered with replacement included if needed

Scratching the rifle stock on some acacia thorns is acceptable wear but dropping the rifle on a rock damaging the scope isn’t normal wear. He should offer either to fix or replace the scope. That is the right thing to do. Shouldn’t need to be told in my mind. He clearly never served in the Marine Corps or he would have never dropped his rifle. He owes 50 push ups too.

I vote for special discount for US marines!

Not a joke. I am not marine, but i have same attitude and personal responsibilty for my rifles

Once on driven hunt, i slipped with rifle in hand.
I landed badly, ripped my clothes, got nasty scratch on my hand forearm, but i did not dare to let the rifle fly and hit the rocks on the ground, just to have free hand to compensate the fall. When needed a parachute, i sticked to rifle. Not a healthy habit

mark-hunter said:

I vote for special discount for US marines!

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You're going to want to charge extra for a Marine. It will take weeks to get all the crayon and teeth marks out of the stock.

Rental fees are for usage; damage is separate. Best to discuss liability prior to the hunt with the PH.

I hate borrowing equipment. If it breaks or is damaged, I feel responsible to fix it. Renting something? Even truer, every rental agreement I have read requires the renter to pay for damage or loss of the rented equipment, not ordinary wear, but things like flat out breaking it.

Dropping a scope on a rock, the hunter should be paying to repair or replace the scope.

If the rifle had a Nightforce on it and he drops it, same thing, he should offer to replace the broken rock.

I think it could depend on the circumstance in which it’s damaged. Minor scrapes and scratch because going through thick thorns, where you and your clothes all get some scrapes and scratches, that normal and to the extent not, the PH likely thought about it and accepted the risk of damage and harm when selecting the route to pursue.

If something is damaged because of my carelessness or oversight or accident that I should or could have recognized and avoided, that’s on me and I should make it right. Just like the buggy, flat tire, that’s on them. I trip at the end of the day and send my culling belt or beer or both into the buggy windshield, cracking same, that should be on me.

I don't have to ask for specific terms. If I damage a borrowed rifle, I will pay for repairs or replace it. I can afford it. It's what I'd expect if I let someone use my rifle. The rental eventually will wear out. Outfitter will then need to replace it. That eventuality will be covered by rental fees. Or the fees may be used to repair damages caused by less ethical clients.

A gun is made to fire, a car is made to drive, hammer is made to hit, etc… when you rent them is a fee for using them and fees for damaging them ( insurance or whatever, deposit etc)
In the hunting industry is generally an gentlemen agreement about damaging things you rent. And will be the same case as damaging your own scope or gun. ( You pay for it, Or warranty covered, etc )
In my opinion client is responsible for replacing, or repairing costs of the rented goods.
Any discussions before, how much cost the scope, how much cost de gun, in case I damage? Will spoil the hunt and the joy of being there. Let’s say this scope is 3000 USD, but I have one of 500 USD. This gun is 1000 USD and this one is 5000 USD … which one you want???

I have used three rifles in Africa that were not mine. One was 30-06 lodge rental, one was 375 owned by my PH, and one was PH's backup 270 WSM. All were nice CZ rifles. The 30-06 was actually a pretty model. "Ebony Special Edition" or something like that. I'm not sure I was even charged a rental rifle any of the times. I used the 30-06 on the last day of first safari to take my first kudu after we discovered the night before that my rifle's scope had gone kaput. If I wasn't charged rental fee for my PH's 375, I should have been. The first safari I used it to shoot a cow buffalo on a deal that came up unexpectedly. I shot that rifle once at the range and then once in the field that afternoon to kill the cow. Next safari I used the same rifle to hunt my buffalo bull. That required several days of hard hunting. Doubt my PH charged me to use his 270 WSM to make two very long shots. We simply swapped rifles momentarily. All guns were nice specimens. The ebony one was very nice but well used. All wore Leopold scopes that were not fancy. Good quality functional and affordable rifles. Nothing terribly high grade. I have a feeling most safari operators use about the same grade rifles as rentals. I cannot imagine they would put a Rigby or Jeffery gun in the hands of an unknown person (often novices!). Client's are rented a good gun that's semi-disposable in the event of worst case scenario. Understandable.

This is an interesting thread. Have to be honest, I never thought about the rental fee covering my accidentally damaging the rifle. It was just an incidental charge like daily PH rate. If I damage someone else's stuff, I pay to get it fixed. Also, rental fees usually include ammo and, especially for thumper calibers, it can be expensive to replace.

Another way of looking at it is the rental fee protects the client from unscrupulous operators who would give him a rifle to use that's not cherry, then later claim the client did the damage and expect him to make it right. Rental fee puts everyone's mind at ease.

I’ve rented a rifle in Africa only twice for a hunt. I have used the PHs 22s and 223 frequently though. If I break it I’m paying for it. I use their rifles like they were my own. I’m guessing that’s part of reason I haven’t been charged. I hope nobody takes the mentality they are paying rental to abuse and damage someone else’s rifle and scope instead of their own.

Honestly, who are these people that are constantly dropping their weapons?

I read about this all the time. The whole notion is so foreign to me. Especially if I’m handling another person’s property I’m treating that piece with respect and am aware of my surroundings.

Negligence + Firearms = Catastrophe

I’d pay for the repair/replacement to the rig because I’d be mortified that I’d be remembered by a PH as “pussyfingers” the hunter that lost his dick because he dropped it.

Sabre said:

I was on a hunt once and a client had rented a rifle from the outfitter/PH. Very early in the trip, the client dropped the rifle on a stalk and the scope banged off a rock, denting the scope. From what I understand the client apologized, the PH grumbled a little but said it was alright.

However, later I had overheard some of the PHs annoyed that the client hadn't offered to pay for the scope or at least to send it in for repair.

I have two separate feelings on this.

From an empathetic point of view where I take very good care of my things, I would personally feel bad about damaging someone else's things and would probably want to make it right at least to some degree.

From a logical and business point of view: Two things come to mind. One, this is part of the reason people pay to rent a rifle, to offset the risk of damage to a rifle and scope they have to pay for. Two, I frequently read guides/ph and outfitters say the reason they charge what they charge for rifle and ammo rental is because of the risk of damage and increased upkeep on their heavily used rifles.

What are your thoughts?

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Obviously if you damage something you make it right unless you are a complete jerk. What people pay to use someone else's rifle does not constitute some sort of insurance policy.; however. It probably would be a question that should be asked if the PH while making arrangements.

I find your comment interesting about clients with expensive rifles not wanting to take them because of fear of damage; why have them if you're not going to use them.

I pay for any and all damage I cause.