World's most popular community & resource for hunting in Africa since 2007
450/400 3" double as a stopping rifle?
- Thread starter Kevin Peacocke
- Start date
One of my friends uses it extensively. And has taken many Buffalo with it. Bullet placement and penetration are far more important than "knock down". So yes, i think it's well up to the job.
Only problem with them is that they don't have good resale value.
I have also found felt recoil to be no less than. 450 as tge rifles tend to be very light.
Pondoro
AH elite
My Joseph Lang .450/400 3.25 cronos at 2050fps with 1970 vintage Kynoch softs.. 28" barrels..
I get 30mm groups at 50 yards with that old ammo..
That is about 3700ft-lbs...but I have an itch to try it on buffalo anyway.. The rifle fits me like a glove and recoil is very low.
I get 30mm groups at 50 yards with that old ammo..
That is about 3700ft-lbs...but I have an itch to try it on buffalo anyway.. The rifle fits me like a glove and recoil is very low.
AZDAVE
AH ambassador
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2013
- Messages
- 5,309
- Reaction score
- 11,909
- Media
- 215
- Hunted
- South Africa,Namibia, Mozambique, Alaska,lower 48
I always find these discussions very interesting. At one point I had a nice 450/400 double. Shot a roan and hippo with it. (One of the rifles I regret letting go of)
I think it would be a great buffalo rifle for a client. No really a stopper per se.
One of the things that always seems to get left out is the will of each animal to live and the effect on the animal after adrenaline is dumped when shot. Along with proper bullet placement and what that does vs adrenaline dump.
Several years ago I backed a friend up on his elephant. His first shot was with a 416 Remington the 400 gr went over the brain, as it was turning to leave I hit it with a 570gr, at 2300 that went just below the brain. When watching the video there was a remarkable difference in the effect on the animal. The 500 Jeff caused it to pause and sit down on its rear hip and roll to its side. As
It started to get up my buddy and the ph put finishing shots in.
My feeling on this observation put into sports we know would be
The 9.3and 375 is like gett Hit by a golf ball at 130 miles per hour in the face or body.
The 450/400 is like getting hit by a 95 mph pitch with a baseball in the face or body
416’s is like taking a softball at 100 mph in the face or body.
458-470 is a soccer ball to the face or.body at 85 mph
500-600 is a medicine ball to the face or body at 80 mph
All of them will do the job on the first shot if properly placed. The bigger with give a small margin of time with a body shot on the second shot assuming the first is poorly placed.
The only real stopper is a brain shot under pressure of a charge.
A RPG or AT4 would qualify but are not easy to carry , but would let you shot it and cook it with the same shot
I think it would be a great buffalo rifle for a client. No really a stopper per se.
One of the things that always seems to get left out is the will of each animal to live and the effect on the animal after adrenaline is dumped when shot. Along with proper bullet placement and what that does vs adrenaline dump.
Several years ago I backed a friend up on his elephant. His first shot was with a 416 Remington the 400 gr went over the brain, as it was turning to leave I hit it with a 570gr, at 2300 that went just below the brain. When watching the video there was a remarkable difference in the effect on the animal. The 500 Jeff caused it to pause and sit down on its rear hip and roll to its side. As
It started to get up my buddy and the ph put finishing shots in.
My feeling on this observation put into sports we know would be
The 9.3and 375 is like gett Hit by a golf ball at 130 miles per hour in the face or body.
The 450/400 is like getting hit by a 95 mph pitch with a baseball in the face or body
416’s is like taking a softball at 100 mph in the face or body.
458-470 is a soccer ball to the face or.body at 85 mph
500-600 is a medicine ball to the face or body at 80 mph
All of them will do the job on the first shot if properly placed. The bigger with give a small margin of time with a body shot on the second shot assuming the first is poorly placed.
The only real stopper is a brain shot under pressure of a charge.
A RPG or AT4 would qualify but are not easy to carry , but would let you shot it and cook it with the same shot
The 450/400 came about when military calibers were banned for civilan use in some countries so the 450 was necked down to 400. In the nitro version it became the standard for all 40 calibers...ie...404 jeffery etc. The 3-1/4 versions tend to run 411 diameter and the 3 inch version 408.It has high sectional density bullets and makes it a great dangerous game caliber with out un-managable recoil. Brass is readily available and so are bullets so it's not to expensive to reload, i load for mine all the time.
Huvius
AH fanatic
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2022
- Messages
- 600
- Reaction score
- 1,450
Your history is off.
The 450-400 3-1/4” long predated the 450 “Ban” and was a black powder cartridge just as the 450 was before being loaded with cordite.
The 3” Jeffery version predated the 450 “Ban” as well.
Kevin Peacocke
AH ambassador
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
- Messages
- 6,533
- Reaction score
- 24,641
- Location
- Harare Zimbabwe
- Media
- 111
- Articles
- 2
- Member of
- Cleveland Gun Club
- Hunted
- Zimbabwe, SouthAfrica
Just 50 fps more would get you legal for Zimbabwe with regards to power, and you are well legal on calibre. Try Hornady ammo, or load your own?
TOBY458
AH ambassador
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2014
- Messages
- 5,232
- Reaction score
- 15,685
- Location
- Madison Georgia, USA
- Media
- 212
- Articles
- 3
I’m sure the camp chronograph is dead accurate though. So you’d better make sure your numbers are on! LOL!
Extremely well said @AZDAVE and my experience as well!!! Love your analogies they are spot on!I always find these discussions very interesting. At one point I had a nice 450/400 double. Shot a roan and hippo with it. (One of the rifles I regret letting go of)
I think it would be a great buffalo rifle for a client. No really a stopper per se.
One of the things that always seems to get left out is the will of each animal to live and the effect on the animal after adrenaline is dumped when shot. Along with proper bullet placement and what that does vs adrenaline dump.
Several years ago I backed a friend up on his elephant. His first shot was with a 416 Remington the 400 gr went over the brain, as it was turning to leave I hit it with a 570gr, at 2300 that went just below the brain. When watching the video there was a remarkable difference in the effect on the animal. The 500 Jeff caused it to pause and sit down on its rear hip and roll to its side. As
It started to get up my buddy and the ph put finishing shots in.
My feeling on this observation put into sports we know would be
The 9.3and 375 is like gett Hit by a golf ball at 130 miles per hour in the face or body.
The 450/400 is like getting hit by a 95 mph pitch with a baseball in the face or body
416’s is like taking a softball at 100 mph in the face or body.
458-470 is a soccer ball to the face or.body at 85 mph
500-600 is a medicine ball to the face or body at 80 mph
All of them will do the job on the first shot if properly placed. The bigger with give a small margin of time with a body shot on the second shot assuming the first is poorly placed.
The only real stopper is a brain shot under pressure of a charge.
A RPG or AT4 would qualify but are not easy to carry , but would let you shot it and cook it with the same shot
I've shot several buffalo all with a DR. The second buffalo I ever shot was with a Heym 470 and 2 good
hits resulting in a 2-mile track to come upon him laying down with 3 buddies standing at 30 yds the 2 PHs were both out of position (or should I say I was the ASS with a tracker out of position), 2 of the 3 standing younger bulls started to circle around us with on each side. The older bull stood guard with my wounded bull. When the wounded bull started to stand, I put 2 more quick ones in him (one in the hip/pelvis and one in the back as he fell). The tracker with me was caring my Dakota 375 was on the other bull who turned and ran but he was ready to shoot and was one of the few trackers who had a lot of shooting experience I've been with.
There was so much blood and tracks in about a 50ft circle is what caused us to be spread out looking for a dead bull in the thick brush. It very easily could have turned out to have a horrible ending. Both PHs agreed that all the tracks and blood sprayed everywhere had our adrenalin really much higher than the 4 buffalo until we went about 10 yds further and all hell broke loose. In the end the other 3 buffalo all went separate directions, The 2 initial shots broke a shoulder and a double lung too far back.
When it was all over there were 2 PHs (one with 22y experience and one finishing DG certificate), 2 trackers and a very rattled hunter who all could have used a roll of paper towels each to clean themselves.
That was the day I became hooked on hunting buffalo!
The last several have been shot with my Heym 450-400 with A-frames with much less excitement.
hits resulting in a 2-mile track to come upon him laying down with 3 buddies standing at 30 yds the 2 PHs were both out of position (or should I say I was the ASS with a tracker out of position), 2 of the 3 standing younger bulls started to circle around us with on each side. The older bull stood guard with my wounded bull. When the wounded bull started to stand, I put 2 more quick ones in him (one in the hip/pelvis and one in the back as he fell). The tracker with me was caring my Dakota 375 was on the other bull who turned and ran but he was ready to shoot and was one of the few trackers who had a lot of shooting experience I've been with.
There was so much blood and tracks in about a 50ft circle is what caused us to be spread out looking for a dead bull in the thick brush. It very easily could have turned out to have a horrible ending. Both PHs agreed that all the tracks and blood sprayed everywhere had our adrenalin really much higher than the 4 buffalo until we went about 10 yds further and all hell broke loose. In the end the other 3 buffalo all went separate directions, The 2 initial shots broke a shoulder and a double lung too far back.
When it was all over there were 2 PHs (one with 22y experience and one finishing DG certificate), 2 trackers and a very rattled hunter who all could have used a roll of paper towels each to clean themselves.
That was the day I became hooked on hunting buffalo!
The last several have been shot with my Heym 450-400 with A-frames with much less excitement.
Ontario Hunter
AH ambassador
I suspect gunmakers were anticipating a ban on exporting .45 cal ammo before it became official.
Huvius
AH fanatic
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2022
- Messages
- 600
- Reaction score
- 1,450
No, they weren’t.
Period reports in The Field are worth reading.
The 450 ban is what led to the development of the 470NE, 475s and 500-465 H&H not the 400 which already existed long before the ban.
The ban in India also covered the 303.
Also, in India (and maybe in British Africa), firearms of 450 caliber which were already in the country were exempt and sportsmen could bring in up to 200 rounds of ammunition per year. If you took your rifle out of India, it couldn’t come back.
The makers recognized this as an opportunity to develop new cartridges and rifles for them as a large part of their customer base resided in or was deployed in India.
Holland and Holland even called their new 465 the “India” model.
The supposed ban was really a boon to the makers in the end.
Members online
- Nevada Wapati
- '68boy
- Bill_D
- 458JCE
- Rumrunner
- warningshot
- sureshot375
- Wyatt Smith
- MontanaPat
- coreydb
- Jagerrand
- mms45
- jbirdwell
- Badger Matt
- Sarg
- gram2117
- 358 Norma
- Firearmdoc
- Russ16
- Happy Myles
- Rimbaud
- KenD
- Junderwood
- Trogon
- absales
- supergrizzly
- MtnHntr
- HCL
- Reload410
- Keelebilly
- Tubby’s Canteen
- Tgood1
- John the Electrician
- Cleathorn
- Mother Plucker
- PHOENIX PHIL
- JoeSoap
- Wyit76
- BeeMaa
- Flbt
- skydiver386
- ACM
- mdwest
- BFaucett
- HSands
- widetrackjack
- Betterinthebush
- Uncharted_NT
- Tex .416
- Mekaniks
Forum statistics
Latest profile posts
tarbe wrote on DAVE LANGERMAN Safaris's profile.
Dave - Kathy ad I hope to see you Friday at DSC!
Tim Arbeiter
Tim Arbeiter
doctari505 wrote on PaulB's profile.
Hi PaulB. Would you be interested in another WJ Jeffery .450/.400 NE 3". It's an extractor model and in superb condition, cased as well. Made in 1908. The rifle is here in Texas.
migrabill wrote on eswan68587's profile.
I will take the knife for $250 shipped. Please tell me how you would like the payment.
Thanks-
[redacted]
Thanks-
[redacted]
Timbila GAME LODGE wrote on Clayton d's profile.
Hi Clayton,
Please find attached our best quote based on your request.
I’ve also included the price list for additional animals, as well as our 2026 hunting packages for your reference.
You can also click on my banner to access our website and get more detailed information about the lodge, hunting areas, and options.
Best regards,
Orso
Please find attached our best quote based on your request.
I’ve also included the price list for additional animals, as well as our 2026 hunting packages for your reference.
You can also click on my banner to access our website and get more detailed information about the lodge, hunting areas, and options.
Best regards,
Orso