458 winchester or lott ?

In my weakness I am thinking of getting another rifle for elephant and buffalo. I am on the fence, 458 win mag or 458 Lott. Any thoughts?

I wouldn’t want any more recoil than the 458 win mag.

Do you hand load? The Lott will have more to offer if you do. If you dont roll your own, than which caridge you use will matter less than what brand of rifle you use.

@Mountaineer ive fired some 458 WM rifles that were less comfortable than a 458 Lott. How unpleasant the recoil is will depend on how the rifle is made. Example: the Win M70 in 458 WM is much less comfortable to shoot than the CZ 550 in 458 Lott.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

If you roll your own, you can always dial 458 Lott back to 458 WM loads, but you can't push 458 WM loads to 458 Lott levels.

test fire both (if you haven't already). Recoil from the Lott is significantly more than the win mag. Both will do the job, 450gr from a 458 win mag is very efffective, and with modern powders and bullets you cant go wrong

Lott. You can shoot 458WM in a Lott but not vice versa.

if you load your own then a 458 win mag with CEB 420 gr Raptor loaded to 2400 fps will do a bang up job on buffalo or the 404 gr Hammer at 2500fps with a stout load of AA2230 powder. I have taken buffalo with both loads. for elephant the the CEB 400 gr .700NP will shoot completely thru a elephant skull.I used it on a cape buffalo all the way thru one end to the other complete pass thru. look at the CEB website and the bullet pictured is mine.

Have a closer look at

The Lott isn't needed for anything except bragging rights; merely variation on a theme. A comparable rifle so chambered will cost more. The velocity isn't that much more than the WM; my Hornady manual shows +100fps at best with similar powders. If factory ammo is important, WM has a slight availability and price edge. Brass availability is terrible for both right now if you are a handloader. I would go with the WM; in fact, I began thinking of one for myself only moments before this posted... until I found out about the brass situation.

lott

DaddyFlip said:

The Lott isn't needed for anything except bragging rights; merely variation on a theme. A comparable rifle so chambered will cost more. The velocity isn't that much more than the WM; my Hornady manual shows +100fps at best with similar powders. If factory ammo is important, WM has a slight availability and price edge. Brass availability is terrible for both right now if you are a handloader. I would go with the WM; in fact, I began thinking of one for myself only moments before this posted... until I found out about the brass situation.

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I agree partially with you.

There were certainly some initial problems with the cartridge 458 Winchester Magnum, but these have since been resolved. Whether the Lott cartridge, with its few millimeters of longer case length, offers any real advantage in practice is questionable. Theoretically, it should be and the cartridge 458 Lott should have slightly better external ballistics than the cartridge 458 Winchester Magnum, but that is also very theoretical, like all ballistic values provided by designers and printed on the cartridge boxes. A friend of mine and PH always said that he did not notice any difference in practice when using both cartridges for backup. I would not say choosing the Lott is bragging; those who are hesitant should go for it, as it is certainly a bit easier to reload, but those who value tradition are also well served with the cartridge 458 Winchester Magnum. I am a fan of the caliber 45 for hunting in Africa, but since my choice would be for completely different cartridges of this caliber, I am trying to remain as objective as possible.

I suggest you search this site for the thread on the same subject. It has some details i jight leave out now.Factory ammo gives Lott about 100 to 150 fps advantage. Handloads in win mag can be loaded with long OAL- even longer than the lott because win mag chamber has a longer throat. So handloads can potentially outperform the lott. Then it becomes about the magazine and action length. CZ and big actions Granite Mountain could handle longer rounds. Best is a win mag chamber reamed to lott.

Both will do the job. Choose your action/ manufacturer first and then see if that directs you. I think the CZ is better in lott. Less room for the rounds to rattle in the magazine. But a Winchester is better in win mag because of the magazine and action length. And if you handload, a 450 gr monometal bullet at 2200 fps will put anything on the ground. So I think the calibre is more about the action that you want than calibre. Buy what appeals to you- both work and I can't tell the recoil difference. I have used factory and handloads in both win mag and lott. Can't tell the difference.

If your going to handload 458 WM is my first choice. Your going to use all factory ammo a 458 Lott not the best choice but it will work OK. Brass will be sort of hard to find. I had a CZ in 458 Lott used it on one hunting trip then put it up for sale and just use my Winchester 70. Not a bad second choice is a Ruger 77 in 458 WM. if you like a 24" barrel in a heaver profile its a good rifle, usally can be found at a much more inexpensive price than a Winchester 70. If your going to handload and want to get the most from your 458 WM Cutting Edge Bullets or a second choice for bullets Hammer bullets.

I like the .458 a Lott.

Mountaineer said:

I wouldn’t want any more recoil than the 458 win mag.

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+1 on this sentiment. I really like my 458 Win Mag but I don't have much desire in going any higher on the recoil scale. It's possible I might if the right rifle weight or design was effective in mitigating some of that discomfort. The 458 Win Mag was the better choice for me since left-handed rifles are more affordable & easier to acquire in this chambering. As mentioned earlier in this thread, factory ammo in the Lott will be more powerful but handloading can increase the 458 Win Mag's potential. Reading the threads arguing this idea is always entertaining.

There is nothing wrong with proper loads in the .458 Win cartridge. I like the Cutting Edge Bullets 450 grain solid at over 2300 fps. With that load I punched holes through my tuskless elephant's head and shoulders, breaking a shoulder on the pass through!





A .458 Lott affords one the ability to load 500 grain bullets at over 2300 fps. That's a lot more muzzle energy should it be needed. The table below lists 500 grain bullets for both but the 450 grain at 2300 fps in the .458 Win produces similar energy and recoil. Personally, I find the Lott to have a lot more recoil but that doesn't stop me from owning one!



The Lott also allows a wider selection of powder to load WITHOUT compressing the powder. I pay attention to this and only use H4895 in my .458 Win loads. The H4895 is compress a little but when "downloading" rounds the powder is not stuck together in clumps. The 3/8" longer case of the Lott affords more case capacity for slow buring powders.

If one prefers a Winchester Model 70 which is available in .458 Win and not the Lott, then buy it! The CZ 550 and BRNO 602's are a noticible larger rifle. I am a M70 guy buy I have a BRNO 602 being custom built in .458 Lott. I have all the guns I need but will probably never have all the guns I want!!!

All my eles are shot with 458 Lotts, or they’re shot with nothing at all.

DaddyFlip said:

The Lott isn't needed for anything except bragging rights; merely variation on a theme. A comparable rifle so chambered will cost more. The velocity isn't that much more than the WM; my Hornady manual shows +100fps at best with similar powders. If factory ammo is important, WM has a slight availability and price edge. Brass availability is terrible for both right now if you are a handloader. I would go with the WM; in fact, I began thinking of one for myself only moments before this posted... until I found out about the brass situation.

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Raven Rocks can get a run of it if enough people put it on their wish list and call or post for it

Mark A Ouellette said:

There is nothing wrong with proper loads in the .458 Win cartridge. I like the Cutting Edge Bullets 450 grain solid at over 2300 fps. With that load I punched holes through my tuskless elephant's head and shoulders, breaking a shoulder on the pass through!

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A .458 Lott affords one the ability to load 500 grain bullets at over 2300 fps. That's a lot more muzzle energy should it be needed. The table below lists 500 grain bullets for both but the 450 grain at 2300 fps in the .458 Win produces similar energy and recoil. Personally, I find the Lott to have a lot more recoil but that doesn't stop me from owning one!

View attachment 732090

The Lott also allows a wider selection of powder to load WITHOUT compressing the powder. I pay attention to this and only use H4895 in my .458 Win loads. The H4895 is compress a little but when "downloading" rounds the powder is not stuck together in clumps. The 3/8" longer case of the Lott affords more case capacity for slow buring powders.

If one prefers a Winchester Model 70 which is available in .458 Win and not the Lott, then buy it! The CZ 550 and BRNO 602's are a noticible larger rifle. I am a M70 guy buy I have a BRNO 602 being custom built in .458 Lott. I have all the guns I need but will probably never have all the guns I want!!!

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but with mono bullets the 500 gr is no longer needed for penetration, a 404 gr Hammer or CEB 400 .700 solid will completely pass through a buff or elephant with less recoil and they are always in stock.