Politics

Tubby’s Canteen said:

Because Canada holds u.s. treasury bonds we must unfairly tariff you?

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Considering the tariffs Canada levied on US farm products, yes I would say they were unfair tariffs
Mike

Altitude sickness said:

So what do they think a liberal will do about Trump?

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I never voted for carney I voted conservative and have in every election sense I’ve been old enough to vote, I’m not sure why I keep getting looped in with the liberals I’ve stated here on multiple occasions I’m a voting member of the Conservative Party. Oxford the cat was the one who spoke out one here in support of carney.

What do I expect carney to do? What ever is in the best interests of Brookfield asset management.

yamoon said:

Considering the tariffs Canada levied on US farm products, yes I would say they were unfair tariffs
Mike

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I’ve explained the issue to death look back and you’ll find it about every 40 pages, the problem with u.s. farm products is that your government Sponsors them and they over produce to gain governmental funding. 73% percent of dairy returns are due to dirict government funding.

If I knew how I’d type up a pdf so I didn’t have to type it out every 40 pages.

Tanks said:

Actually, Y2K fears were real in a lot of instances.

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i would say, maybe, maybe not. i worked in the electronics field for 20 years prior to y2k, and a couple years after. it was mostly a big shrug for my company and all my compadres in the military thought that it was a similar thing (a lot of fuss over not much).

because i spent a bit of time testing equipment before y2k to make sure it would not glitch everything (telephone, microwave, computers, data processors, remoting eq. multiplexers etc and ground radar and associated equipment in the 20 years prior) when the calendar rolled over. i asked people in other disciplines if they had any problems worthy of note regarding the y2k monster. the collective answer was "nope" a lot of concern over nothing.

obviously you had some issues to iron out, but, from my experience it was a great big fat "nothing burger".

From CBN:
Canada uses "supply management" policies for certain agricultural products to control prices, maintain food safety standards and protect the dairy, egg and poultry industries from foreign competition — policies which have long irritated trade partners such as the U.S. and New Zealand, another big dairy producer.

yamoon said:

From CBN:
Canada uses "supply management" policies for certain agricultural products to control prices, maintain food safety standards and protect the dairy, egg and poultry industries from foreign competition — policies which have long irritated trade partners such as the U.S. and New Zealand, another big dairy producer.

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Absolutely we do , we use a quota system, the u.s. instead of using a quota system directly subsidizes ag production. Because of subsidies and the revenues they generate you then over produce and need to offshore product or dump.

What is ironic is that America demands we drop dairy tariff’s yet accuses Canada of subsidies in softwood lumber for leasing crown land to logging companies and imposed a tariff on soft wood lumber because of it.

@yamoon here is a cliff note version if you don’t want to bother looking back to the multiple times it’s been covered in the past.

In 1970 or so there was a crisis in the dairy industry in North America. Two countries took too drastically different approaches to dealing with the issue.

Canada adopted a quota system where the amount of milk on the market was controlled in order to keep prices high enough for the farmer to make a living while still low enough for the customer to afford. This quota is measured by kgs of butterfat with one kg being roughly equal to the amount of milk produced by one cow per day. This quota system gives a monetary value to the amount of market share controlled by each farmer that they can leverage, borrow against and ultimately sell when they choose to retire.

America instead of instituting a quota system directly subsidized dairy production, some years up to 73% of dairy returns are dirict government subsidies. These subsidies routinely run into the billions of dollars annually.

Now on to trade , Canada as part of a trade agreement allows a set amount of u.s. dairy onto the Canadian market and only after that threshold is met is there then a 215% tariff applied.

98% of Canadian dairy farms are still family owned they make a moderate living in a difficult sector. The average size of a Canadian dairy herd is 77 cows. It costs currently 28000 dollars to add 1 kg of quota or 1 cow to the farm.

How can Canadian dairy farmers operating within a carefully managed sector compete with American producers who have no restrictions and routinely overproduce for government funding?

The only actual way to fairly trade dairy would be for the u.s. to stop subsidies which would have a domino effect where prices wouldn’t support the size of u.s. diary herds leading to mass beefing out of herds which would then short supply on the domestic market increasing price to a level sustainable for the farmer with his smaller herd. Thus making it unnecessary to offshore milk as there would no longer be a surplus of u.s. milk on the market.

Tubby’s Canteen said:

Absolutely we do , we use a quota system, the u.s. instead of using a quota system directly subsidizes ag production. Because of subsidies and the revenues they generate you then over produce and need to offshore product or dump.

What is ironic is that America demands we drop dairy tariff’s yet accuses Canada of subsidies in softwood lumber for leasing crown land to logging companies and imposed a tariff on soft wood lumber because of it.

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The US dairy industry practices are completely jacked up and work against its own interests.

Prices and margins are low because demand has reduced. Then due to shrinking margins. The only way to survive is to grow. Economy of scale.

So huge dairy farms produce too much milk and then drive out the small producers. Flood the market with more milk than is consumed. The government doesn’t want our AG business to collapse so we subsidize. It would be easier to stop subsidies and let the strong survive. But when that has been tried, foreign investors buy up all the dairy farms. And I’m sure there are more details I’m not aware of.

The small 3-5 generation dairy farmers are the ones the subsidies keep alive. No one wants to be responsible for small farmers having to sell land that’s been in their families for a century or more.

But that doesn’t mean Canadian dairy farmers should pay the price to keep our farmers in business.

Hope you all like the above post, I’m going to attempt to save it so I can just copy pas

Altitude sickness said:

The US dairy industry practices are completely jacked up and work against its own interests.

Prices and margins are low because demand has reduced. Then due to shrinking margins. The only way to survive is to grow. Economy of scale.

So huge dairy farms produce too much milk and then drive out the small producers. Flood the market with more milk than is consumed. The government doesn’t want our AG business to collapse so we subsidize. It would be easier to stop subsidies and let the strong survive. But when that has been tried, foreign investors buy up all the dairy farms. And I’m sure there are more details I’m not aware of.

The small 3-5 generation dairy farmers are the ones the subsidies keep alive. No one wants to be responsible for small farmers having to sell land that’s been in their families for a century or more.

But that doesn’t mean Canadian dairy farmers should pay the price to keep our farmers in business.

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the smaller producers would be protected if you all implemented a quota system and place a value on the amount of market share they control. The problem is the u.s. dairy herd would need to be reduced to a size inline with domestic needs in order to implement an effective quota system. Our dairy board also keeps foreign investment out of the dairy industry.

Tired of this whole argument, you will never convince me trade is fair and I will never convince you it is unfair. I don’t want this to degenerate into name calling, as I said I like Canadians. One of my wife and my most enjoyable vacations was Toronto to Vancouver by train in 2018.
Mike

yamoon said:

Tired of this whole argument, you will never convince me trade is fair and I will never convince you it is unfair. I don’t want this to degenerate into name calling, as I said I like Canadians. One of my wife and my most enjoyable vacations was Toronto to Vancouver by train in 2018.
Mike

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I’m glad you had an enjoyable time in Canada, as to trade we’ll have to agree to disagree I’ve provided all of the facts to back up my position where as you cited one source that says the u.s. and N.Z. Is angry that can’t have open access to the Canadian market and then when presented with the facts you decide you no longer want to participate in the discussion.

I’m tired of having to type out the same points on the dairy industry every forty or so pages because trump spouts off it’s unfair and blind followers ( not saying you in this case ) take it as gospel without doing any amount of due diligence on the subject.

Tubby’s Canteen said:

@yamoon here is a cliff note version if you don’t want to bother looking back to the multiple times it’s been covered in the past.

In 1970 or so there was a crisis in the dairy industry in North America. Two countries took too drastically different approaches to dealing with the issue.

Canada adopted a quota system where the amount of milk on the market was controlled in order to keep prices high enough for the farmer to make a living while still low enough for the customer to afford. This quota is measured by kgs of butterfat with one kg being roughly equal to the amount of milk produced by one cow per day. This quota system gives a monetary value to the amount of market share controlled by each farmer that they can leverage, borrow against and ultimately sell when they choose to retire.

America instead of instituting a quota system directly subsidized dairy production, some years up to 73% of dairy returns are dirict government subsidies. These subsidies routinely run into the billions of dollars annually. View attachment 681284

Now on to trade , Canada as part of a trade agreement allows a set amount of u.s. dairy onto the Canadian market and only after that threshold is met is there then a 215% tariff applied.

98% of Canadian dairy farms are still family owned they make a moderate living in a difficult sector. The average size of a Canadian dairy herd is 77 cows. It costs currently 28000 dollars to add 1 kg of quota or 1 cow to the farm.

How can Canadian dairy farmers operating within a carefully managed sector compete with American producers who have no restrictions and routinely overproduce for government funding?

The only actual way to fairly trade dairy would be for the u.s. to stop subsidies which would have a domino effect where prices wouldn’t support the size of u.s. diary herds leading to mass beefing out of herds which would then short supply on the domestic market increasing price to a level sustainable for the farmer with his smaller herd. Thus making it unnecessary to offshore milk as there would no longer be a surplus of u.s. milk on the market.

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Everybody everywhere is protectionist. A long time back I recall certain African countries trying to sell their cotton internationally. In a purely open market capitalism, they would have succeeded. But, for example, Greece had such a cotton subsidy to keep their farmers going, they they paid more for the subsidy than the actual price of purchasing African cotton. The Africans were shut out of some such markets, and since China is one of the greatest cotton producers, they didn't care to buy any, either. (one reason China offering zero tariffs both ways to Africa results in no benefit to Africa--they don't want their manufactured stuff, anyway.) Sure, it's a tangled mess, which makes making money off of tariffs a more difficult proposition IMO than than it was in the 1800's.

John Wasmuth said:

“No one is above the law”….. Prison orange is the new black…

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I was more in favor of seeing a group photo, with more guilty libs in the shot....lol

WAB said:

So you’ve developed your opinion of Canadians watching CNN? I suppose Canadians could develop their opinion of Americans by watching the same news agency, George Floyd, BLM, ANTIFA, quite a pretty picture they paint of our nation.

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Not solely from CNN, other news outlets and many trips to Canada until the disaster of a moose hunt in Ontario in 2017 that made up my mind to never return, combined with the emotional outbursts by Canadians on this forum that blame everything other than their own government for the current state of affairs before tariffs were in the spotlight.

I’m sure there are many reasons you immigrated but you yourself have stated on this forum that you believe yours rights are better protected in the USA than in Canada.

Although I do admire Canadians tenacity when dealing with threats on a micro level, like when dozens of seal hunters surrounded a hotel full of PETA protestors…..

Scott CWO said:

@Vashper trust me comrade, nobody in the West ever thinks or talks about invading Russia. We don’t want your land but would love to visit, tour and hunt with you. You could be completely surrounded by NATO countries and you would never be invaded. Actually, that would be the safest outcome for everyone because your leaders are the invaders. The only thing we wish for is for Russians to someday somehow come to your senses and become a democratic republic with capitalism instead of the oligarchy and kleptocracy you’re in now. You do realize that your oligarchs share earnings with Putin, do you not? How did Putin get so rich otherwise?

Why can’t your leaders just enjoy your vast beautiful country and build it up without coveting your neighbors and former Soviet republics? Your country has vast resources and could be a strong country but you’re too worried about expanding your borders to invest in your own country. Such a shame. Your potential is endless and pissed away.

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It makes me recall the appalling expense Albania once undertook to build thousands of concrete based metal spikes, turned skyward to impale any incoming (and fully expected) American paratroopers. And we think we know how to waste money.

No, I didn’t terminate due to your facts, it’s just going downhill. I certainly don’t agree with President Trump’s 51st state bull or other insults, but drastic action is required before this country falls into bankruptcy. I think I’ll go shoot some holes in paper.
Mike

yamoon said:

No, I didn’t terminate due to your facts, it’s just going downhill. I certainly don’t agree with President Trump’s 51st state bull or other insults, but drastic action is required before this country falls into bankruptcy. I think I’ll go shoot some holes in paper.
Mike

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In reality I don’t think that there are very many US citizens that take the 51st state seriously either. There is a small handful of people here that do take every word that Trump says literally but I believe most of us have learned to take a lot of it with a grain of salt.

Hunt anything said:

In reality I don’t think that there are very many US citizens that take the 51st state seriously either. There is a small handful of people here that do take every word that Trump says literally but I believe most of us have learned to take a lot of it with a grain of salt.

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That is a perfect example of the problem, when did it become ok for the president of America to spout of nonsense and lies with no one holding him accountable. Why does he get a pass? He’s speaking on behalf of you and every other American citizen, at the head of the largest military in world and has access to nuclear weapons but when he spouts off randomly you all just brush it off.

If joe Biden had called into question the sovereignty of Canada , attempted territorial gains in Greenland and started a trade war would you all of brushed it off as “we don’t take him seriously”

@Hunt anything that is not a personal shot at you either simply using your post to make a point.

My thoughts exactly:

Tubby’s Canteen said:

The last true conservative to hold office in North America. I wish Harper would run again he has done a few campaign events this election and seems to be as sharp as ever.

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Honestly we have not had a Prime Minster who deviated from Pierre Elliot Trudeau concept of a centralized government. Our constitution gives most of the power to the Provinces and the only province to hold true to that is Quebec. Pierre Pollieve is a refreshing bit of sanity to the constitutional situation. I think he will reset things if given a chance. Harper had no desire to as it didn’t suit his centralized ideology.