Joseph Lang Sidelock or Westley Richards 470

[Hunter-Habib]

I’d opt for the Joseph Lang. But one thing to watch out for. The top lever is slightly off center, indicating that the rifle may be beginning to get off-face.

 

[270Guy]

Thats a lot of Money,i would have someone whose expertise is in Old English Doubles have a Look at them and then take a Call, with Economies world over in Shambles,one really doesn't know which way it all will go.I would hold as far as the present economic scenario goes.

 

[soumya sarkar]

I'll second that. Have you had your hands on them?

No I haven't yet.

 

[soumya sarkar]

I checked with them, it is a true sidelock. Barrels are original to the gun. Bores are bright and shiny.

 

[JPmbogo]

I’d opt for the Joseph Lang. But one thing to watch out for. The top lever is slightly off center, indicating that the rifle may be beginning to get off-face.

Au contraire - the photos of the Lang show the top lever "slightly off center" to starboard - that indicates the action is still very tight. High quality doubles are built that way to allow for wear over time. I have a new VC 600 NE, for example. It's top lever is "slightly off center," again to starboard. If it was off center to port, then there would probably exist a problem of too much wear.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Au contraire - the photos of the Lang show the top lever "slightly off center" to starboard - that indicates the action is still very tight. High quality doubles are built that way to allow for wear over time. I have a new VC 600 NE, for example. It's top lever is "slightly off center," again to starboard. If it was off center to port, then there would probably exist a problem of too much wear.

Thanks for educating me on this, @JPmbogo

 

[soumya sarkar]

Au contraire - the photos of the Lang show the top lever "slightly off center" to starboard - that indicates the action is still very tight. High quality doubles are built that way to allow for wear over time. I have a new VC 600 NE, for example. It's top lever is "slightly off center," again to starboard. If it was off center to port, then there would probably exist a problem of too much wear.

You are correct, thats what they said as well.

 

[uplander01]

Good advice having them checked out by JJ,.....If it were me I'd prob just go with the Westley Richards. Depending on when they were restored you're probably going to have to have the pad redone. I bought a restored Manton Best Box lock from Barnett that was restored in 2002 by HH, the leather covered pad was brick hard. I'm not a big fan of bolted safeties, although from my experience PH's like them as they are 1 degree safer. The Lang would prob be a tad easier to handle at .75 lb heavier, and the 25" barrels, nice touch. Just my thoughts anyway.

I'm envious of your situation and your choices,....enjoy the process, its the best part IMO.

 

[K E Johnson]

The Lang has been listed for quite some time.
It has been on my watchlist since 2019 at least. I don’t know if that would factor into price that would be accepted or not. It has been in inventory for a while though.

I don’t believe the WR has been listed near as long.

I find it interesting some listing come and go, rinse and repeat.

 

[CJW]

After looking at these several times I can say that eye appeal has me going to the Lang.

 

[soumya sarkar]

View attachment 478453
The Lang has been listed for quite some time.
It has been on my watchlist since 2019 at least. I don’t know if that would factor into price that would be accepted or not. It has been in inventory for a while though.

I don’t believe the WR has been listed near as long.

I find it interesting some listing come and go, rinse and repeat.

That’s interesting. Not sure if they are fixed on price, but always worth checking

 

[degoins]

I love them both. I'm leaning toward the Lang just because of the case and accessories. If it weren't for that I'd have to flip a coin.

 

[Sarg]

Hard to go past a WR & a drop lock to but would be best if you handle both, better still shoot both !

 

[Red Leg]

Good advice having them checked out by JJ,.....If it were me I'd prob just go with the Westley Richards. Depending on when they were restored you're probably going to have to have the pad redone. I bought a restored Manton Best Box lock from Barnett that was restored in 2002 by HH, the leather covered pad was brick hard. I'm not a big fan of bolted safeties, although from my experience PH's like them as they are 1 degree safer. The Lang would prob be a tad easier to handle at .75 lb heavier, and the 25" barrels, nice touch. Just my thoughts anyway.

I'm envious of your situation and your choices,....enjoy the process, its the best part IMO.

Believe it or not, a leather covered pad is supposed to be brick hard. Normally usually most of the time they are used on SxS game guns rather than rifles to facilitate the butt sliding into shooting position without catching on clothing. Often the highest quality game guns will have no butt plate, pad or anything, other than the finely finished wood surface of the buttstock for the same reason. A bespoke rifle will be built to the clients wishes, but would normally have a plain red pad. Again it has no recoil function, but is designed to keep the rifle securely in the pocket of the shoulder during firing - particularly for the second shot with a double.

 

[spike.t]

Only way to decide is to go and look at them and handle them both...see which makes you go oohhhh....then as said get it checked....and if needs get the stock sorted to fit you

 

[soumya sarkar]

Guys, I will have the Gun checked out here by a Gunsmith here at Gordy and Sons.They have pretty high end double barrel rifles so I trust their Gunsmith to be good, may be not JJ level but after talking to Morris and the Gun been refinished by Chris Soyza who was a former Gun maker at WR, I feel it should be OK.

Now million dollar question, what do you think should be the fair price for this Lang? Any ball park no. should be fine.Will use as data only. Many thanks for your help...

 

[uplander01]

Pricing on vintage double rifles is about as subjective a topic as one can get, there are no guidelines. Its been listed for a long time at 37,500, clearly know one thinks its worth that, or it would be gone. I would think 28-30k would get it done. Or just pay more if it's what you want........in the big picture, paying full price,.....is a small price to pay if it's what makes you happy.

 

[JPmbogo]

I am curious about the several comments on this thread as to having JJ Perodeau "check out" the guns in question. That would be a very expensive proposition to start sending high end guns to JJ, assuming both Barnett guns and JJ would even consider doing that. In JJ's case, he has his own for sale along with Champlin. Three day inspections (I might add non-shooting) are the norm and Steve Barnett (Now Morris) is a very reliable and well known dealer. Should be no problem there. I have bought and sold many double rifles over the years, and have never had a "gunsmith" check them out. Bore condition and being "tight on the face" are paramount. Wood condition is also a factor, but that is easy with a visual check. Of course, here both guns appear to have been redone. Which brings me to another point. Were they full restorations, that is mechanical as well, or just cosmetic? A gunsmith checking a gun out for possible purchase is not normally going to open up the action. However, here that is very easy. The WR locks simply drop out for inspection - the Lang has sidelocks, which do not appear to be "hand detachable," but can be easily removed with a single screw, although you may not want to do that yourself, unless you are extremely competent to do so - nothing worse than a damage screw head on a fine gun. As they say, "you broke it, you own it."

Lastly, I am also curious about the intended use for the purchase of one of these guns? If it is going to be basically a "safe queen," then aesthetics rule. On the other, if the intent is to use it for the intended purpose of such double rifles, i.e., hunting beasties than can shoot back, so to speak, then perhaps a new double would be the better choice. Mechanical parts do fail over time, especially springs.

 

[soumya sarkar]

Pricing on vintage double rifles is about as subjective a topic as one can get, there are no guidelines. Its been listed for a long time at 37,500, clearly know one thinks its worth that, or it would be gone. I would think 28-30k would get it done. Or just pay more if it's what you want........in the big picture, paying full price,.....is a small price to pay if it's what makes you happy.

I'm with you, hence my question, not knowing much on pricing of Doubles. I'd also think that 28-30K would be ideal, however have a feeling he will not go down that much. Maybe max a 10% cut so 33750.

 

[JPmbogo]

Many, if not most of the high-end guns out there with dealers are on consignment. So price might be dependent on how bad the owner wants to sell.