Power level..How do you ever rationalize going back down?

[Tra3]

I think @Red Leg is right that you match the caliber to the game. With wide open country out west a DG rifle isn’t practical.

For NA hunting I am most focused on meat hunting, so I’d rather have minimal damage. That also means I don’t use a 7 mag or .300 WM for deer hunting in the thick Minnesota woods where shots are almost always less than 50 yards.

If one’s goal is to anchor an animal, a bigger caliber sounds nice, unless it is not as accurate. Hunting frequently results in some odd shooting position and a quickly taken shot. In that scenario I’d rather take the advantages I can with a mild recoiling caliber. We all know our recoil limits. One can either practice a lot to increase that recoil limit, or agree to use a smaller caliber for better accuracy. I’ll stay in the .375 category as I’m not in a rush to jump into the .4’s.

 

[mark-hunter]

My question is: Once you get comfortable with that higher level of power, how do you rationalize dropping back down to something normal for a whitetail?

Hmmmm....
Simple. I dont. There is nothing wrong in having (more then) enough gun.
FInal choice for me is: just a bit more then legal minimum on lower level, and on upper level: not to over-do-it.
For example: fox I can legally shoot with anything from 22lr upwards. But I use 30-06 or 308 win, as my entry level calibers. Foxes never complained.
Wild boar, and red deer, I can legally shoot with 308 win, or 30-06, but for these winter hunts, I prefer 9.3x62.
Roe deer I can shoot legally with 223 rem, but my choice again is either 308 win or 30-06.

Apart from frequently used argument, that larger caliber covers for larger margin of error on bullet placement, I can also say that "dinamic" factor plays the role. In driven hunts, game is full of adrenalin, more tense and more resiliant to effect of marginal shot, and marginal shot can be expected in driven hunts. So, for such hunts I prefer a bit more power then legally required minimum.

Other way, reducing the caliber down towards the minimum... hmmm... what for?
The reason may be cheaper ammo, less recoil, for purpose of training. But not for actual hunting.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I’m really enjoying this thread and discussions. I’m contemplating using my Browning .338WM for a PG hunt, only because I’m very familiar with it as it is my elk rifle. But, my 2.5x-10 scope isn’t a BDC, so 300 yards is about my max range. Under .375, I also have a .270 Win and .300WM (with a brake) but I don’t shoot them as much. And, why go down in the power range if a longer shot is necessary and I really don’t want to bring more than one rifle plus the extra ammo to Africa?

 

[mark-hunter]

@CoElkHunter
I have a slight feeling that whatever you choose you will not be undergunned for PG hunt!

 

[CoElkHunter]

@CoElkHunter
I have a slight feeling that whatever you choose you will not be undergunned for PG hunt!

Ha! Ha! Well, having never been on a PG hunt in Africa and most recently having read some of the distances (400-600yds) that some of these animals have been shot at, I’m now thinking I should have been concentrating on finding a sniper rifle instead of concentrating on .375 and up for the last couple of years. Having enough terminal “power” is one thing, but if you can’t get the bullet on target, what’s the point? My .22-250 is set up for long range prairie dog shooting (not really hunting) but have never needed to shoot a big game animal over 250 yards (pronghorn with my .270) and am not set up for long range big game hunting. I need to rethink the requirements in a rifle for an African PG hunt. Probably starting with a BDC scope?

 

[Red Leg]

Ha! Ha! Well, having never been on a PG hunt in Africa and most recently having read some of the distances (400-600yds) that some of these animals have been shot at, I’m now thinking I should have been concentrating on finding a sniper rifle instead of concentrating on .375 and up for the last couple of years. Having enough terminal “power” is one thing, but if you can’t get the bullet on target, what’s the point? My .22-250 is set up for long range prairie dog shooting (not really hunting) but have never needed to shoot a big game animal over 250 yards (pronghorn with my .270) and am not set up for long range big game hunting. I need to rethink the requirements in a rifle for an African PG hunt. Probably starting with a BDC scope?

I have never used or needed one in Africa. The farthest game animal I have ever taken there was around 250 yards. I have a wonderful set of range finding 10x40 Leica binos that also don’t travel to Africa with me.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I have never used or needed one in Africa. The farthest game animal I have ever taken there was around 250 yards. I have a wonderful set of range finding 10x40 Leica binos that also don’t travel to Africa with me.

Great to know! That puts my mind at ease. I’m good to 300yds with what I have. Thanks! Appreciate it!

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I don't know where all of these huge distances are coming from. Sure if you had a sniper rifle and wanted to just do it you may find a line of sight that far, in the Eastern Cape maybe, but it would be the exception. You can always get much closer, and in any event there is bush in between almost everywhere.

 

[mark-hunter]

Probably starting with a BDC scope?

No need.
Distances 400 - 600 yards/meters in Africa, are unthinkable for me. I have serious amount of literature in my library - and authorised literature is not unverifyied internet claim, and I have not yet found solid reference and excuse for 600 meter shot at african game.
(I dont doubt it has not been done, but for me it is exibitionism, not hunting)

I was twice on safari, shot a dozen or so animals, with three different calibers, and not a single shot I had was beyond 200 meters.

At extreme circumstances a skilled hunter, highly motivated, for SPECIFIC animal, can find excuse to shoot up to 300 meters, at open plains. Thats it.

Bottom line, hunting in Africa, on PG can be reasonably strecthed to maximum point blank range of average medium caliber, plus few meters over with minimum hold up, for skilled rifleman.
DG is hunted at 100 meters or less.

For a first time american hunter, considering that shooting standing from sticks in America is not common, as it is in Europe, more focus should be to train and practise shooting from sticks, at up to 200 meters. That is priority, after choosing a proper caliber (the choice you already made well)

My prefered hunting crosshair is German 4C, illuminated. Not even close to BDC. African safari, included.
Power, variable, and not more then 12, actual set up between 4-8x, depending of circumstances.
I think that lense diameter for allround african rifle could be considered 42 mm, it wil not be to clumsy to carry around, and it will still keep some light gathering qualitites. Wide angle scopes, with 20 mm lense, are also good choice, but probably less adequate for dusk and low lisght conditions.

Bottom line, dont worry about 600 meters.

 

[Jaegger]

All solid comments/reasoning for or against Big Bore for Everything & my humble position is simple, “right tool for the job.”

A .458 Lott throwing a 400 - 500 grain round is near the top of the big boy Big Bore listing & kinda like a home builder showing up on site w/ only a sledgehammer. Yes, it could tap in a small decorative trim nail (ouch) or knock out a wall but is it practical: one tool - all jobs.

My kryptonite for this caliber/round combo is ethical downrange placement, not lobbing lead, & most references suggest <= 200M. Not an effective tool in the open savannah or Kalahari where shots can start @ 200M+ … but, the flip side is shorter eff. range setups make you improve on your stalking skills & that’s a good thing!

Enjoy your cool caliber! Happy Trails.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I don't know where all of these huge distances are coming from. Sure if you had a sniper rifle and wanted to just do it you may find a line of sight that far, in the Eastern Cape maybe, but it would be the exception. You can always get much closer, and in any event there is bush in between almost everywhere.

I ALWAYS try to get as close as is feasibly possible to my quarry. And by hook, crook and just plain luck, I’ve been able to do that successfully most of the time. But, much of the hunting terrain I’ve seen in RSA looks like where we hunt pronghorn here with open country and little cover. In a recent hunt report here, shots were said to be taken at 485-495? yards with a .375 and several more animals taken in the 400 yard range with a 6.5 PRC? I’ve read a number of other hunt reports here where the hunter is adjusting his rangefinding scope in preparation for a shot at some astronomical distance. Anyway, I was just getting a little spooked reading some of this because I’m not set up for it. But, getting back to the just of this thread, I guess there would be no need to “power down” from a certain cartridge if one can hit a target consistently at a reasonable range? For me, that’s about 300 yards max with my .338, but to each their own.
Thanks for all your comments and expertise!

 

[CoElkHunter]

No need.
Distances 400 - 600 yards/meters in Africa, are unthinkable for me. I have serious amount of literature in my library - and authorised literature is not unverifyied internet claim, and I have not yet found solid reference and excuse for 600 meter shot at african game.
(I dont doubt it has not been done, but for me it is exibitionism, not hunting)

I was twice on safari, shot a dozen or so animals, with three different calibers, and not a single shot I had was beyond 200 meters.

At extreme circumstances a skilled hunter, highly motivated, for SPECIFIC animal, can find excuse to shoot up to 300 meters, at open plains. Thats it.

Bottom line, hunting in Africa, on PG can be reasonably strecthed to maximum point blank range of average medium caliber, plus few meters over with minimum hold up, for skilled rifleman.
DG is hunted at 100 meters or less.

For a first time american hunter, considering that shooting standing from sticks in America is not common, as it is in Europe, more focus should be to train and practise shooting from sticks, at up to 200 meters. That is priority, after choosing a proper caliber (the choice you already made well)

My prefered hunting crosshair is German 4C, illuminated. Not even close to BDC. African safari, included.
Power, variable, and not more then 12, actual set up between 4-8x, depending of circumstances.
I think that lense diameter for allround african rifle could be considered 42 mm, it wil not be to clumsy to carry around, and it will still keep some light gathering qualitites. Wide angle scopes, with 20 mm lense, are also good choice, but probably less adequate for dusk and low lisght conditions.

Bottom line, dont worry about 600 meters.

View attachment 439125

Thanks Mark! You too have helped ease my concern over having to shoot at animals over longer distances than what I’m comfortable with. I just bought a set of bipod shooting sticks and have been trying out the best hand and rifle placement from a standing position. Haven’t shot from them yet, but they seem much steadier than my usual shooting positions using a military style sling. Thanks!

 

[PerH]

Ultimate Sniper Book : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Sniper

archive.org

Read what he say about ordinary hunting cartridges and trajectory of 250 grain .375 there,aswell as the others. And .458 with the stable path on its way it have . And the rest of the book also.

 

[PerH]

https://archive.org/details/UltimateSniperBook/page/n155/mode/1up And here also.

 

[Red Leg]

I ALWAYS try to get as close as is feasibly possible to my quarry. And by hook, crook and just plain luck, I’ve been able to do that successfully most of the time. But, much of the hunting terrain I’ve seen in RSA looks like where we hunt pronghorn here with open country and little cover. In a recent hunt report here, shots were said to be taken at 485-495? yards with a .375 and several more animals taken in the 400 yard range with a 6.5 PRC? I’ve read a number of other hunt reports here where the hunter is adjusting his rangefinding scope in preparation for a shot at some astronomical distance. Anyway, I was just getting a little spooked reading some of this because I’m not set up for it. But, getting back to the just of this thread, I guess there would be no need to “power down” from a certain cartridge if one can hit a target consistently at a reasonable range? For me, that’s about 300 yards max with my .338, but to each their own.
Thanks for all your comments and expertise!

Very few places in Africa will look like short grass prairie. The most open ground I have hunted was central Namibia cattle country. I suppose had I wanted to take a shot at four-hundred yards, I could have (and had I been able to convince my PH is was a good idea). But in ten days, I filled out my wish list, and the longest actual shots were a Hartman zebra and oryx. Both were 225ish.

The dambos and savannas of Zambia and Mozambique can be quite large, but they are bordered by forest and jungle which offer opportunities to get closer.

As recommended above, I would spend my “worry” time getting really, really comfortable shooting off sticks. You need to be accurate and quick.

 

[ChrisG]

Honestly, I think it comes down to how many deer/smaller game you have shot with said rifle. Anyone who has only ever used a .300 win mag on whitetail, will be nervous about taking a smaller gun because they know the .300 works. I have a .358, a .375 and a .458, but more and more I find myself reaching for my 6.5x55. It is just one of those comfortable feelings when I pick it up and it has always done right by me. Its a little like a good pair of worn in boots for me.

On a really big black bear or elk, I have no doubt it would kill it but trailing gets to be hard with such a small hole and no guarantee of an exit so I usually step up to something bigger for them.

 

[Hillbilly Marine]

I have used a .270 deer since age 12 (along with .45 Colt) but I have switch to my .416 Rigby because I just like to use it. Now soon my Granddaughters will start joining me and I will be switching from my .416 Rigby back to either .45 Colt or my .270 Weatherby for light weight and focus on them and their Remington 788 6mm Remington.

Whatever floats your boat and is legal is good as long as you aren't undergunned or overranged.

 

[uplander01]

I completely understand the question,....as long as the shots are reasonable and the animal ends up dead quickly and efficiently use whatever you want. I for one have sat in a tree stand for whitetail with 338 WM, because I love the rifle and the rifle is a big part of it for me in the hunting game. Proportionality makes sense, especially in the frame that you never want to be under gunned.

I work in the gun industry and the optics and long range shooting thing has gotten out of hand. The average guy with die hard hand-loading expertise and lots of range practice should still never be taking a 500-600 yard shot at a game animal. Use your feet and senses and actually hunt.

I'm done taking shots over 200 yards,...and its not because I can't make them, its because id rather "hunt" and get close. Archers get antelope on the western plains all the time, they work harder and I admire that. Hunt like an archer with a rifle, then you'll have some stories to tell. It will be way cooler than " I was sitting on this hill side and read the wind and shot this beautiful elk at 500 yards with out even taking a walk." UGH.

 

[Vanguard2279]

In 2018, I went to Newfoundland for Moose. Arriving the night before I was to be picked up, I stayed at the Deer Lake Motel and wound up having dinner with a couple Canadian hunters from BC. One of them asked what I brought. I replied that I had brought my Ruger Guide Gun in .338 WM with a 250-grain Barnes LRX. Both chuckled and mentioned that they had brought .308's. Their opinion was that Americans always brought "too much". I get it. Moose have been killed with everything from the .22 Savage Hi-Power and up. I prefer to err on the side of caution. Having said that, the .338 WM is well matched to an animal the size of a Moose.
In Namibia in 2018, I hunted Cape Eland. I brought the Ruger .338 WM with 250-grain Swift A-frames. For whatever, reason, I was carrying my NULA .338-06 with 210-grain Barnes TTSX (it's best load). I effectively killed the Eland bull, but I really feel that I should have used a heavier bullet.
When I hunted the wonderland of Takeri Private Game Reserve with @spike.t, I brought my Forbes 9.3x62 with 250-grain Barnes TSX. I felt it was perfectly matched for the game I hunted there. Definitely more than I needed for the Common Reedbuck and Puku, but perfect for the Kafue Lechwe and two Sable. The ranges were less than 200 yards.
I'm hunting Cape Buffalo in April 2022 with KMG. I'm debating bringing my .375 Ruger with 300-grain Swift A-frames or 350-grain Woodleighs, my .416 Ruger with Swifts or Woodleighs or the RSM .458 Lott. I'm sure all would be adequate. It will depend on how well I develop loads for each.
In 2023, I'm returning to the Eastern Cape with Western Safaris. I'm going to hunt Red Lechwe, White Blesbok and White Springbok. I could easily bring only my Christensen 6.5 PRC. I'm sure it would be more than adequate. However, I'm going to hunt a few management animals that may include Black Wildebeest and Red hartebeest. Would it work? Probably, but I'm bringing my .338-06 and the previously mentioned load as it's more fitting to that size of tenacious game.
Of course, everything above is my opinion based on my experiences. Do whatever makes you happy.

 

[Eduard_Venter]

Well today I stepped down again by using my 243 for some biltong... The silencer did its job and the results are evident, 2 shots 2 bucks 2 meters apart. Sometimes (not always) the smaller calibers is just more fun to shoot.

And yes, that is a high fence. No, they are not caged in animals, they just happened to graze near the fence when I shot them.